Do flippers cause achilles pain?

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

slowfish — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:13:17 GMT

Hi Cheryl, I was addicted to fins because i have dinky feet and stiff ankles from so many years of running that i am a slow kicker. add a hard running workout on the same day as a swim and i'm even more of a slug! I think fins definitely have their place, especially in the learning process. I attribute fins to being able to actually do fly. When i first tried to learn fly, i couldn't do the fly kick. Fins helped me do this. Now i can do fly and kick fly without them. I like fins for kicking fly on my back and stomach because it's such a great ab workout. I also like to do a sets of 50s free with fins focusing on actually kicking. it's a great lung buster and i think it helps with feeling what it is like to go faster. But, i noticed that my flutter kick isn't getting any better. So, i decided that for the majority of my flutter/back flutter kicking, i am ditching the fins. It's been a tough wagon to get off of as i'm still incredibly slow. I'm doing sets of 25s kicking without a board. i find that as slow as i am without a board, i'm even slower with one! i also don't think it's as close to the position that you want to be in anyway and on a board, you don't have to deal with taking a breath..sadly i still need a few of those even for a 25! I'd suggest keeping it simple. warm up, do some sets of flutter kick without a board and if you want to work on fly kick, then stick on the fins but don't do more than 100 or so at a time for a while. then you can start building up so hopefully, you won't get the achilles pain again.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:12:09 GMT

Lindsay, thanks so much. I will try that tonight. I've been exposed to total immersion, and I do believe the principals are sound.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:45:50 GMT

Hi Cheryl, You shouldn't have to kick hard to keep your legs up, likely there is something off somewhere else in your stroke which is causing your legs to sink such as lifting your head too high. Is your head in line with your body with your face looking straight down at the bottom of the pool? Probably a little work on "balance" in the water will fix up your sinking legs issue. As you extend your arm out in front, try pressing you chest/armpit on that side down in the water, as the front end goes deeper your back end should come up (and vica versa). People who don't rotate side to side enough to easily breath to the side will often lift their head to breath, causing their hips and legs to sink. Keeping your arms extended out in front of you for a longer fraction of the stroke cycle will also shift your balance. A drill to play with this is called catch up stroke, you keep each arm extended in front of you until the other arm catches up - so you take a pull with one arm, keeping the other arm extended in front, and then recover so that you touch the extended hand with the recovering hand before you start pulling with the other arm. Check out the Total Immersion web site for more balance drills.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:08:25 GMT

Slowfish, I want to thank you for taking the time to advise me about the fins. I have been out of them for a week now. I still have a tiny bit of pain in my heels (probably because my running is not allowing them adequate time to heal), but I can tell they are getting better. Thus, I attribute the pain to the fins. Okay, so I've been swimming for about 10 weeks now. Nine of those weeks were with flippers, prescribed by the swim teacher. I was up to 100 yards (on a good day), and now I'm back down to 50 on a good day. You said you were addicted to fins for awhile. Were you taking lessons also? I just don't understand why swim instructors teach us to rely on fins, and then when we get rid of them, we have to learn all over again. I can't keep my butt up without fins. I find myself kicking like a fiend to try and stay up, and then wearing myself out. It almost seems like I'm never going to get the hang of this! You said you are doing sets of 25's without the fins. Are you using a kickboard or swimming? I've tried to understand the thread about the flutter kick, but it's too technical for me. Any help will be much appreciated. Cheryl

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

ViveBene — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 03:03:21 GMT

Hi Cheryl, Extremely skinny people or those with a specific gravity such that they are "sinkers" will tend to sink legs, but that seems uncommon. Getting the balance right - the "vessel" - should help you, and an occasional flutter kick - it's almost an unconscious movement - keeps the legs from sinking, and keeps you in a straight line. I would ask Coach to go back to very basics, position in water. Sometimes holding a kickboard in front, arms extended, helps new swimmers/nonswimmers find a balanced, easy position in the water. TI drills are good, IMO: do over and over. Achy pain in heels: try gentle stretches, in warm bath or if standing waiting for a bus, balance forward foot on edge of curb and stretch back of foot. On flat ground, elevate toes and forward foot. Maybe add an anti-inflammatory such as ibuprofen. Good luck! VB

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:57:26 GMT

I don't know for sure if you have plantar fasciitis or not but my PF pain was in the *back* of the heel--not under it. I tried to "cure" it and still run and tried to "cure" it without running. Guess which way healed faster? You might check out this website for tips on running so that you land on your forefoot instead of your heel to limit or prevent damage to your foot, knees, hip. www.newtonrunning.com/run_better.php. The shoes themselves are a little beyond my budget. I suppose it is possible to get PF by pushing off the wall. I would try not pushing off so hard. Works for me when my calves spasm after a few too many hard wall push offs. --mjm

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

slowfish — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 04:29:56 GMT

Have any of you gotten plantar after upping your swim yardarge? I kind of think i've got a mild case from pushing off of the wall.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:32:21 GMT

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:38:28 GMT

Thanks for all the advice. I'm pretty sure that I don't have the dreaded plantar facsiatis because the pain is in the back of my heel, not under it. I think I'll just try and swim without the fins for a week and take a few days off running (and get fat) and see what happens!

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

aztimm — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 02:15:34 GMT

Sounds to me like plantar fasciitis. One sure sign is severe heel pain when you first get out of bed in the morning that improves when you move around a little. You could look up the causes and cures on the Internet but mostly it's from tight calve muscles and inflamation of soft tissue. You could go see a podiatrist and get fitted for orthotics and they may help. However, what worked from me was *no running*. Hard to do, I know, as a fellow long-time runner. After a week or two try running again and if it hurts-- stop right away. Give it more time. Try again. No pain = ok to run. Make it a point to stretch your calve muscles all the time but not when they are cold--wait until they warm up. Fins might be good for improving ankle flexibility but they keep your calves in a shortened--not stretched position. Give the fins a rest for awhile--at least until your pain goes away. --mjm If indeed the problem is plantar fasciitis, there are many possible solutions. Personally, I've been diagnosed with plantar fasciitis (quite severe), from a combination of running and marching while in the Army (I'm sure what I wore on my feet had to do with the activities). I've survived quite will with this, over the past 15+ years. At any rate, the advice to stop running is contrary to what I was told by my podiatrist last year. They gave me charts with some great stretches, and eventually gave me a brace that I wear when I'm sitting down to watch TV (supposed to wear 4 hrs/day, but I think I avg 1-2 hrs/day). The brace helped me quite a bit, and I've upped my running frequency + distance substiantially as a result. Putting tape around your foot, icing, and most importantly stretching can all help. For swimming, I do own a pair of zoomers. I wear them maybe once every 2 weeks, at most (I can't even remember when I've worn them last). Since I've seen Ande's threads here on kicking, I've tried (fairly successfully) to wean myself off of any fins. When I did wear fins more regularly, I'd sometimes get cramps and/or blisters. When you have some time, you may want to explore some of Ande's threads for more info.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:56:58 GMT

And zoomers are not for kicking; they're for swimming. Well... yes, but would you allow that they work pretty well for some kicking. Short fins feel better to me than full fins for SDK especially.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

Former Member — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:35:24 GMT

I had the same problem, and it was caused by wearing fins that were too small. I wouldn't use fins for a while, then go up a size when you start up again.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

The Fortress — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:20:52 GMT

I used to run quite a bit too. Never any achilles pain, but problems with loose ankles. I use fins a lot in the pool and have never had any achilles pain whatsoever. Sounds like your fins may be too small. Or maybe it's the inflexible ankles ... As Slowswim said, try not to kick with fins. If you kick with fins frequently, you are apt to have more feet/ankle problems. And zoomers are not for kicking; they're for swimming.

RE: Do flippers cause achilles pain?

slowfish — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:31:25 GMT

Welcome to swimming:applaud: I'm also a runner and started swimming for crosstraining several days a week. Now i'm hooked cause after running for 20 years, my times aren't coming down. But with a new sport, there is always room for improvement. I think fins can cause some achilles pain because runners have extremely inflexible ankles. Fins can help help improve flexibility but it needs to be done in small doses and in fins designed for inflexible feet. Others on the board will know alot more about fins than i do. I just know zoomers come in two varieties, blue ones and red ones. the blue ones are supposed to be for people with less flexible ankles. i think that the best thing to do is to not do a ton of yardage in them and work up to increasing yardage in them. after being addicted to my fins for every kick set since i first joined masters(cause my kicking is worse than pathetic), i have been reading the thread about how to improve a slow flutter kick and i'm trying to wean myself off of fins. I've been doing sets of 25's kicking without fins. It's hard, but an uexpected benefit is that my hip flexors are getting stronger and i think it's improving my running stride. A great use of fins is when you want a good ab workout. Doing dolphin kick on your back and stomach for a few hundred yards and you will feel the burn! The other thing i like them for is doing 50s all out. It's a great anaerobic workout. But, other than that, i would cut back on the fins and just stick with kicking flutter kick without them no matter how slow you feel. Apparently bill rodgers would kick in the pool with a board when he had any inkling of achilles pain. he thought that this help loosen it up.