Shoulder Poll

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:29:03 GMT

Jim Thornton's comment about bad should advice on the internet brings up a good question. I was diagnosed with a possible small RC tear this morning. Now where can I go to learn about it? What are 2-3 good websites for general information on shoulder anatomy and care of injuries? Mayo Clinic? Others? This worked wonders for me: www.usaswimming.org/.../Shoulder Stretch Convention 2007 092307 [Compatibility Mode].pdf Diagnosing the exact problem can 'usually' be done by a qualified orthopedic surgeon or sports medicine doc. Yuo can find one in your area. Self-diagnosis can be tricky...

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:14:17 GMT

RE: Shoulder Poll

Allen Stark — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:51:18 GMT

I was one of those PT not sufficient, surgery needed. I had surgery for rotator cuff tear 2 and half years ago. (Not swimming but a skiing accident) Based on my current cruise pace and yardage, I'm at about 85/90% of what I was. There is still some pain and it was a long road back including extensive post surgery PT and two aborted come back attempts due to re-inflamation of shoulder. Right now, knock on wood, the third attempt is successful, I plan to swim my first event in over three years this Sunday, a 2.4 mile open water event in Ft. Collins, Colorado. I now say event as I'm swimming it but not racing. Along with the weight gain it was depressing as I was simply not as passionate about other sports so had a hard time finding an alternative. Good luck:cheerleader:

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:05:53 GMT

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:02:05 GMT

I have shoulder pain that initially started from too much hucking a Chuck-it for my Border Collie and was compounded by learning to swim. It put me out of the water for a while, but then even not swimming didn't help. Everything hurt. Putting on clothes hurt, reaching for things hurt, it was getting ridiculous. I carefully assessed my posture, habitual movements, sleeping pattern, swim stroke, etc. and came up with a program to deal with the pain. I felt it was a muscle imbalance (pec overdevelopment/ scapular stabilizers underdevelopment) rather than an actual injury. I noticed my shoulder had grown very rounded and slumped. I lift weights 3 x a week with very careful form with special focus ont he muscles that stabilize the scapula and act onthe back of the shoulder. I do not sleep on my side anymore. I swim freestyle (the stroke that hurts most)with slightly wider arms and if it hurts at all, I switch to *** or Back, which feel fine. I NEVER use a board or buoy. I try to keep my shoulders "set" whenever I am out of the water, held back and down to avoid the rolling forward that seems to result in the horrible twanging impingement. Since I started this my shoulder has just felt better and better! It almost never hurts anymore, and when it does, it is because I am not being mindful of posture. I think the most significant thing I did was weight training.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:20:42 GMT

Many of the folks I swim with are orthopod surgeons. They all swear that kickboards are evil. I shall spread the word! :agree:

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:57:38 GMT

True and not true. Intense Pain? The pain on the last surgery really wasn't there. Yipee!! They put a pain pump in the incision that delivered a really good anesthetic right into the joint whenever you need it and it lasts for the first three days!!! Possible re-tears. Sure you can reinjure your shoulder. I did. But the surgeons told me that once the wound is fully healed, any new tear would be at a new spot... In other words, you won't tear the scar tissue. Reduced ROM. Before each surgery, they told me my ROM could decrease to about 70% of what it was before each injury. If that were true and acutally happened, my ROM would be at about 24% of what it was before my first injury... But as it stands, my ROM is 100% I'm 45, and my strength is higher than it was before my first shoulder surgery, because all I did was swim with no weight training before my injuries. But I've lifted religiously 3x per week for 12 years since the first rehab. Slowing down. Not true either. It took a lot of time and effort, but the speed comes back! Yipee!!! I just drink more whey protein than I did 10 years ago. (-: I agree 100% with 100% of what you said! Before my surgeries I was hardly able to bring my arms past chin height (esp. in the mornings). Like i mentioned earlier...within a day or two of the surgeries I was able to put my arm into streamline. My surgeries did not effect my ROM in any negative respect, and I am thankful for having decided to have it done. My surgeon also indicated as yours did that once a surgical repair for a tear is made, the chances of re-tearing that specific location is the same as for any other location of the muscles there...if not slightly lower because the scar tissue and surgical intervention gives that location a little more substance and strength if you follow the correct PT post-operation. And I had no pain after surgery--ever--and I did not have a pain pump or take any medications for pain, not even over the counter stuff. I was in a sling for literally 24 hours post each operation as needed (mostly to prevent me from using it when it should be resting, not because it was helpless or in pain), then I was free to do whatever I so desired with the arm. Best decision of my life as far as my athletic future was concerned. I swam harder, faster and better post-operation, I just wish I had chosen a better college program that could have really made use of my brand new shoulders.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:52:18 GMT

Not me. I was told my problem was non-surgical at the moment. But surgery sounds awful. Intense pain, long rehab, possible re-tears, possible reduced ROM. I have to think the older you are, the harder the recovery and the less chance of returning to your prior competitive speed. This recent WSJ article didn't make it sound any fun. online.wsj.com/.../SB120104648002708127.html True and not true. Intense Pain? The pain on the last surgery really wasn't there. Yipee!! They put a pain pump in the incision that delivered a really good anesthetic right into the joint whenever you need it and it lasts for the first three days!!! Possible re-tears. Sure you can reinjure your shoulder. I did. But the surgeons told me that once the wound is fully healed, any new tear would be at a new spot... In other words, you won't tear the scar tissue. Reduced ROM. Before each surgery, they told me my ROM could decrease to about 70% of what it was before each injury. If that were true and acutally happened, my ROM would be at about 24% of what it was before my first injury... But as it stands, my ROM is 100% I'm 45, and my strength is higher than it was before my first shoulder surgery, because all I did was swim with no weight training before my injuries. But I've lifted religiously 3x per week for 12 years since the first rehab. Slowing down. Not true either. It took a lot of time and effort, but the speed comes back! Yipee!!! I just drink more whey protein than I did 10 years ago. (-:

RE: Shoulder Poll

The Fortress — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:58:47 GMT

Well, I'm glad it worked out for you, but I have NO desire whatsoever to have shoulder surgery. Plus, the WSJ article, as I recall, says that you can re-tear in the same place. That's why they're looking at using PRP during the surgery. Me, I'm going to continue to be a PRP guinea pig because my shoulder feels better than it has in two years. I just have to limit how much fly I do and use fins. I almost never use kickboards.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:01:11 GMT

Am currently experiencing the beginnings of shoulder soreness, probably due to increased distance. I am interested to see how many people have mentioned not using a kickboard. Many of the folks I swim with are orthopod surgeons. They all swear that kickboards are evil.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:26:58 GMT

Have left the kick board in the car for a few days now and this seems to have done the trick. Ironically, I was trying to "rest" the shoulders by doing more kicking - with the kickboard, which made it worse. Thanks again for the tip!

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:03:34 GMT

Am currently experiencing the beginnings of shoulder soreness, probably due to increased distance. I am interested to see how many people have mentioned not using a kickboard. Did not think that this could be a contributing factor, but on reflection, maybe I will give the board a miss for a while. Also, a few folks metioned backstroke as a potential problem area and when I think about it, this may be so for me too. Will definitely not do quite as much in future. Thanks to all contributors here, for some non-intuitive suggestions.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:35:20 GMT

pain or functional impairment that forces your out of the water Yes it is very depressing to be out of the water. The thought that I am now limited in what I can do drives me up the wall. Fortunately my shoulder doesn't bother me when I run, so I have been running, and running, and running. But my legs and core would really appreciate some swim time. I've been getting ART treatments for the last couple of months, and am now ready to try a little swimming. The range of motion is almost back to normal, it is just a little tougher to get the bad arm to move. Backstroke will be the last thing I try. I still don't know exactly what I did to hurt the shoulder, but it was doing backstroke with awful form.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:58:44 GMT

With all our recent record snow falls, I'm now suffering from "shoveler's shoulder" - my good shoulder included. Is your shovel catch too much in front? Do you have an early ( or late) vertical lift? How is your follow-through? Thank God I live in an apartment building.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:23:49 GMT

Also, a few folks metioned backstroke as a potential problem area. With all our recent record snow falls, I'm now suffering from "shoveler's shoulder" - my good shoulder included. It seems to hurt only during backstroke pull. This is not a complaint; any excuse not to do backstroke sets is goodness.

RE: Shoulder Poll

The Fortress — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:31:38 GMT

I get the feeling many who have contributed to this thread are in denial. Many shoulder problems can be fixed with surgery. Many more can be fixed with rest. If there is no arthritis, far fewer cannot be fixed with either surgery or rest. Not me. I was told my problem was non-surgical at the moment. But surgery sounds awful. Intense pain, long rehab, possible re-tears, possible reduced ROM. I have to think the older you are, the harder the recovery and the less chance of returning to your prior competitive speed. This recent WSJ article didn't make it sound any fun. online.wsj.com/.../SB120104648002708127.html

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:10:40 GMT

I'm not an expert, but I have had 4 shoulder surgeries. Initial injury was from much tennis - but swimming aggrevated it. I get the feeling many who have contributed to this thread are in denial. Many shoulder problems can be fixed with surgery. Many more can be fixed with rest. If there is no arthritis, far fewer cannot be fixed with either surgery or rest. ...And

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:09:19 GMT

Two modifications a little more body roll. Change of kick.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:52:21 GMT

You certainly found the right one. I had one who told me I would never be able to swim again. I was lucky I went to Egypt and found a doctor who worked with the Egyptian marathon swimmers. He suggested a couple of modifications for my stroke and I have never had shoulder pain again.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:33:56 GMT

Ortho Dudes know nothing about stroke modification. The only solution they have is stay out of the water. Right in some cases for sure. However that is not what we want to hear. I did PT for 9months with no significant improvements, found myself a better ortho and had both of my shoulders cleaned, gutted, shaved and reconstructed at the age of 18. My orthopedic surgeon was phenomenal! She was a competitive swimmer all her life, and her son swims very competitively as well. She was also a world-class rower. She was the ortho/ physician in Athens (2004 Olympics) for the crew teams but also ended up working on some swimmers as well while she was there. She specialized in joint problems in female athletes (shoulders, knees, elbows) and sports medicine in general. The day after each surgery she had me test my range of motion VERY VERY slowly while laying on the floor by raising my arm from by my side to over my head as far as I could. I expected you know to get to like maybe 110degrees the first day, but when I got passed 90 I was in shock, and that very first day after surgery I got my shoulder all the way over my head into streamline position--for the first time in probably 2years. I was swimming competitively within 2months of my second (right shoulder) surgery at the college level and was named rookie of the ECAC swim league that December (had the surgeries Sept6th and Oct 6th). I would recommend shoulder surgery any day if the person had the same opportunity to be worked on by Dr. Hannafin, I never regretted having the surgeries. But obviously, not everyone will be as lucky and there are complications to keep in mind, but two shoulders, two surgeries and the same results both times...and I had a friend get his knee done by her and he went on to play DI soccer that very next fall...:bow:

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:18:38 GMT

Mild symptoms that resolve on their own From time to time I experience inferior glide impingement in my right shoulder. When I feel that movement begins to become restricted, I go to my chiropractor and he works his "magic". About once a month I will need to have him adjust my shoulder. I suspect that this situation is due more to my sleep pattern and right side dominance rather than repetitive stroke syndrome.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Chris Stevenson — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:01:53 GMT

He suggested a couple of modifications for my stroke and I have never had shoulder pain again. Isn't it amazing how that works? And -- from what I have heard -- the modifications are not always that big, either. I have been swimming year-round for 36 years without (knock on wood) serious shoulder problems. For that reason alone I resist stroke modifications; sure, I could probably be more efficient but I worry that changes would cause other problems. When it comes to masters swimming, perhaps longevity is just as important as efficiency.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Big AL — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 06:42:34 GMT

When it comes to masters swimming, perhaps longevity is just as important as efficiency. Now that's a fact. I watched Tom Lane swim 50 free at Masters Nationals at USC in 1990 at 102 years old. I swear he was swimming backwards when he got within 5 yards from the finish. Made a National record, too, I think. :applaud:

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:24:27 GMT

Ortho Dudes know nothing about stroke modification. The only solution they have is stay out of the water. Right in some cases for sure. However that is not what we want to hear.

RE: Shoulder Poll

Former Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:58:45 GMT

I ended up after 20 years of competitive swimming I ended up with a significant rotator cuff injury. I had a major tear in a tendon, a tear in the cuff (labrum) and a tear in the bicep tendon. I waited too long for surgery and I think the pt only aggravated the problem. I am finally swimming again after about 2 years. I only have about 95% range of motion back on my shoulder but I have no pain and I can swim for an hour or so about five times a week. I do not swim fly or backstroke anymore. I didn't think for a long time I'd ever get back in the pool but here I am!