stroke help

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:28:50 GMT

i wold post a video of a 100 fly today. but we got hit with 9.2 inches of snow and therefore no school. im so happy.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 10:54:28 GMT

I don't suppose your camera is waterproof? Or that your pool has an underwater window? The most important stuff happens under the surface. It is an interesting general question, what are the views that are the most useful and telling? Ideally one can get multiple views, each of which potentially reveals something. I find that underwater from the side and from the front are the most useful. From above water, the view from the middle of the side of the pool so you get swimming toward and away is good (as per your 200 IM video) and if you capture the whole swim (say your 100fly) you can capture the splits and stroke counts etc. from the video. From the end of the lane can be ok for detecting fishtailing and cross-over in free. Overhead is good if you have diving platforms at the pool. If you can get an angle or lighting where you can see what is happening underwater instead of just glare off the surface that is helpful. A tracking shot can sometimes be helpful. Directly underneath can be good but is hard to get without a waterproof camera. Unfortunately, the view that is most useful depends on the flaw the swimmer has, which you usually don't know until after you see it, so the more views the better. In your case it wouldn't hurt to get some good shots of your turns and streamlines. :agree: It is also very helpful if your camera operator is good at doing a smooth zoom in and out so that you aren't a tiny speck at the far end of the pool but don't fit in the frame at the close end. it's no waterproof. I wish it was because i have yet to see my stoke underwater. I may buy one of those in a couple of weeks, or if i really want i can go to cvs and buy a disposable waterproof video camera|( i was surprised they had those!) they only have 15 minutes of film and are a tad on the expensive side. but i think it will shed some light on the more technical flaws in my stroke. I'll try to get it from a couple of different views.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:56:05 GMT

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:31:54 GMT

thanks for everything. i will be conditioning tomorrow in th pool. my friend who taped my races will bring my camera|? any angles/ races you would like to see? i'm probably going to do a 100 butterfly being that i haven't done one in over 3 years. hopefully ill break a minute.

RE: stroke help

orca1946 — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:57:12 GMT

Turns are your friend!! Try to work them for streamlinenig MUCH more. Good luck

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:11:54 GMT

hey, i want to know about my fly. i have some vids so you can give me some tips. also please note that in the IM vid i didn't turn hard because i was jsut preserving my rank, its in the next day that i haul(didn't wanna blow myself out in prelims ya know). www.youtube.com/watch for the 200 IM in SCM www.youtube.com/watch for my all out 50 fly, well 95% it was still prelims after all. any advice would be appreciated. thanks Your fly looks good... Also, it was great to hear the cheering crowd... Your fly at the top of the stroke is very similar to Ian Crocker, keep up the good work... For the rest of it, I'd study this video... video.google.com/videoplay

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:01:07 GMT

I was just watching the video again, trying to pinpoint the differences that make your stroke look so much smoother than mine (:dunno:) and I noticed one more thing, in the 200IM on the first length you only breath a couple of times, on the second length you only not breath a couple of times. A more regular breathing pattern might work better in that a few more breaths in the first length might allow more SDK off the turn and/or less breathing on the second 25 which might help maintain optimal form.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:20:20 GMT

I just noticed that your transition turn from fly to back is actually very close to what you want to do in your regular fly turn, if you just twist a little so you come off the wall on your side I think you'll have it. If you watch that turn you'll see how much faster it is than your fly turn. In both your fly turn and the fly to back turn you glided into the wall a bit, if you can time your stroke to hit the wall without a glide it will take a little time off. You should get your coach to time your underwater dolphin kicking versus your on the surface swimming to figure out the optimum distance to go underwater. I'm still struck by the smoothness of your stroke.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:46:15 GMT

Without seeing underwater video I'm not convinced about the advice to drive your head and chest down, with the right timing, and I looks to me like Daniel has that, it seems like you more fall/drop than drive. See: www.youtube.com/watch also: www.youtube.com/watch www.youtube.com/watch www.youtube.com/watch (watching the WR line it seems more like Crocker faded than Phelps rallied) Your undulation did suffer a bit in the second 25 when you started breathing every stroke.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:31:34 GMT

Hillmen chart?

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:26:41 GMT

I'd need to see what you're doing underwater but from what I can see, it looks like you're not driving your head / chest down deep enough. Please look at the competitors in the last Olympics and watch them. Every man and women in both the 100 and 200 drive their head down and chest deeper than their head. As they drive their head and chest down, there is an immediate pressing apart of the hands, a distict EVF, and a press backward. If I were you I'd work on DPS and trying to lower your 25 time. The turn issue is important (everyone sees that one). Streamlining off the walls is another issue (focus on improving your breakout times - Use the Hillmen Chart). I am guessing your ankle flexibility can be improved upon. Good luck, Coach T. P.S. Go to youtube or google and type in EVF + Swimming - you'll see some nice underwater video of Olympic Flyers

RE: stroke help

pwolf66 — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:05:42 GMT

Also is i t just me or do you all have to cut your breaststroke pullouts nearly in half during the IM because of lack of breath. I tried pushing it to my full pullout things started going black and purple, and static, i had to surface and my entire race was screwed up after that. That is a training issue. Make sure that when you swim IMs in practice that you use the back length to get some good breaths before the turn. Paul

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:02:32 GMT

Also I just kinda re-learned my open turns and did every turn like a 50. I had my 200 IM timed by a friend via stopwatch in a 25 yard pool. 2:13 was my time. I'm Thinking I should go out a lot faster on my fly, I go 28,27's on that stretch usually but i can do 25's if i picked it up to like a 90% effort level? what would you guys recommend. You've all been very helpful

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:58:49 GMT

RE: stroke help

That Guy — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 05:12:24 GMT

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:10:52 GMT

Without getting into technique, I would say the number one thing to work on is streamline. Arms need to be tight on top of each other, head tucked between the shoulders. Also your breakouts (transition period between underwater and surface swimming). Your head pops up every time which just kills what speed you had left out of the turns. Turns are very slow, you need to work on snapping your shoulders and hips around. That is at least 1/4 second per turn that you can shave off. Nice arms. Head position is a little high, also looks like your lifting your head a little to late, try to start to lift your head as your hands start to press down during your pull. Paul Ive never ehard the head comment. Never thoguht about that. I'll try to get a vid of me doing fly from the side, run a video of say Michael Phelps next to it at same speed and see how early it comes up. i just thought that that observation was unique. Also is i t just me or do you all have to cut your breaststroke pullouts nearly in half during the IM because of lack of breath. I tried pushing it to my full pullout things started going black and purple, and static, i had to surface and my entire race was screwed up after that.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:02:35 GMT

In the free relay were you the first swimmer? First swimmer is fish tailing not streamlined. www.youtube.com/.../penguinwarlord1 yeah thats me. thanks for all the quick replies. I was never shown proper IM turns ( i've seen the rollover turns but i have no idea how to do them smooth enough to do them in competition), and i seem to have forgotten my good ones since i was out for 3 months with a broken ankle. that meet was 4 weeks back in the water. For the IM turns i'm always focused on the air, When someone is up ahead of me or right next to me i just hit the wall and the second i hit my goal is to get off that wall as fast as i can! Yes that is me leading the 200 free relay. Also any of you have tips on when to surface on streamlines? because during practice i can cover half the pool in a hard 100 set and pop up over a body length ahead of the other swimmers, but i don't do it at meets because i never know when I've slowed down enough to warrant it. I'm surprised you guys have so much feedback in such a small amount of time, I'll work on those on monday when get back in the pool next.

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:36:56 GMT

In the free relay were you the first swimmer? First swimmer is fish tailing not streamlined. www.youtube.com/.../penguinwarlord1

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:41:31 GMT

RE: stroke help

Former Member — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:20:42 GMT

Fly not bad, need work on your dives and turns. Head not in streamline during the dive and all turns. Backstroke not enugh shoulder roll, the shoulders of the recovery arm should not be in the water. Breaststroke I will leave to the breaststrokers but no glide. Crawl dropping elbows on entry. I like to start with the easy stuff to correct. The problems above are easy to fix.

RE: stroke help

Allen Stark — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:27:49 GMT

I'll second the critique of the turns.You are twisting and that is REALLY slowing you down.In an open turn you want to reach the wall with your arms slightly bent,curl into as tight a ball as fast as you can,throw your head back as you push off with your hands(rolling to the side as you do so) and push off.DON'T grab the gutter.You didn't ask about breaststroke but here is my:2cents:anyway.On the first turn you did an OK pullout but when you came up you lifted your head to breath.You had your head up too much from then on which meant you look as if you are swimming uphill.Your head should be in neutral position at all times.At first you are bringing your hands out of the water.Thats OK if it is a natural part of your stroke,but it doesn't appear to be and adds to your swimming uphill.You didn't do a pullout on the second turn.That maybe a fatigue/oxygen/easing off issue,but it was definitely slower.I couldn't be sure from that angle,but it looked like you might have been kicking out at the start of the kick,which will rob your kick of power.Also,especially the second length it appeared you were bringing your hands too far back.They should stay in front of your shoulders.That said you had good timing in your breaststroke.I thought your fly was awesome.

RE: stroke help

funkyfish — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:46:05 GMT

You have a great smooth, flowing butterfly! You should ask your coach about your turn, it looks to me like you are twisting around, staying on your stomach the whole time, from above water the turn usually looks more like falling directly back from the wall and you push off the wall pretty much on your side instead of fully on your front. Ditto on the turn. Critique is regarding the second video (relay), since you were cruising on the first one. Maybe think of executing the turn more on your side and not trying to turn on your stomach. Also, seems you should try and get more underwater dolphin kicks off the wall and start, seems like your head is coming up too early. Swimming technique looks pretty good. :bouncing:

RE: stroke help

rtodd — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:33:42 GMT

You are an awesome swimmer........ Your fly looks awesome and very technically sound. BUT!!!!!!! You need to practice turns!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's weird to me that you got as good as you got without the turn skills developing along the way. Keep up the hard work.

RE: stroke help

pwolf66 — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:15:57 GMT