Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Allen Stark — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:41:27 GMT

Great job.I always do a dry warmup right up until I get on the blocks.About 30 min before the race I start walking around and stretching then I start bouncing and swinging my arms with increasing vigor until called to the blocks. As to increasing DPL,make sure you REALLY stretch your arms forward on the recovery.The more you can narrow your shoulders the less the drag and the further you can"ride the glide." Try to see how few strokes you can take and keep any form at all.Pull,kick,glide,glide,glide.Then add just a little tempo.Really work the pull kick and glide and see how fast you can swim a 50 with 6 strokes.Then keep trying to lower the time without increasing the stroke count.Practice,practice,practice.(My best practice set was 10x50 *** on the minute keeping the time under 40 and the stroke count at 5 after the pullout.)

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:09:22 GMT

Lightning great improvement on the 50. For the hundred and the warmups it is my favorite thing to do - warmup in a shower and wrap up.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:36:36 GMT

I finally got some video to post for feedback on my Breaststroke; (must be breaststroke video day today). Many of you have offered me breaststroke workouts advice to me on another thread, and I have also tried to follow all your related feedback to others and incorporate it. Here is my best shot: www.youtube.com/.../NhsXEoPiuQg&rel=1 For background, I swim a 35 second 50SCY and a 1:15 100SCY, trying to make a 32 sec 50 and a 1:10 sec 100 to qualify for Nationals in 40-44 category. Thanks for any and all help!! I just wanted to post an update, as I swam a meet this past weekend. My 50 BR dropped from a 35.45 (November '07) to a 32.87 ( over 2 1/2 seconds, but unfortunately I'm still .61 seconds away from a NQT) Still, I was pleased! My 100BR dropped from a 115.82 to a 113.28 (over 2 1/2 seconds), I would have thought this would drop more, but the meet didn't have a warm up pool and I essentially sat for an hour after warm up before swimming this event -then hit a wall on the second 50. Does anyone else have this problem and what do you do? I considered entering an earlier event, simply to swim it warm up speed but thought this might not be acceptable? I also swam the 200 BR (first time), for kicks, to get an initial time. I ended up with 254.13 and a better feel for pacing and how to attack it the next time. I guess it's clear from all 3 times that I need to work on my endurance and pacing. I also need to work on my turns. My son counted my strokes for me, and I'm averaging 9-10 per length when I'm sprinting. I also got some feedback that my stroke-cycle was too fast; so I'm thinking I need to work on reducing my strokes per length and then try to maintain the low stroke count but increase my speed - comments welcome! I wanted to thank everyone for posting your feedback on my video - I made some major stroke overhauls from your suggestions. Not only does my stroke feel better, but as many of you like to say, "the clock doesn't lie!" Thanks!

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

pwolf66 — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:19:06 GMT

Lightning, Nice time drops there. Guess I get to look at your heels if we're ever in the same heat. Good job and keep up the effort. Paul

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:31:16 GMT

All the feedback is exactly what I needed. I think I understand most of it. I can see it when I watch myself. I'm still struggling to reconcile some of feedback on my kick. If I understand rightly, my kick itself needs to start wider, but on the recovery I need to bend with my knees (not hips) and bring my knees closer and bring my feet up narrower (hiding behind my body with less drag). Wider out - narrower back. If someone can confirm or clarify this I'd appreciate it greatly! I'm loving the stroke, and will bring another video back after several months of trying to apply all of this - thanks everyone! For your breastroke kick, I'd give you the same advice as I gave to Superfly... "Fix the ankle flexibility (out to side, there are a few dry-land stretches that could help with this) You could keep your knees closer together and tilt feet outward more right when they are close to your gluts... Something that has worked for me is bringing the feet to the gluts very fast, while keeping the knees together... this action really helps to set up the next phase of pointing ankles/feet out, and it even feels like momentarily loading a spring..." Your ankles could point out more, but DON'T kick wider with your knees... Good video though, keep swimming...

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:04:28 GMT

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Allen Stark — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:05:50 GMT

You seem to have the right idea.I think your feet seemed too close together on the recovery because your knees were too far apart.I think if you focus on the knees the feet will take care of themselves until you rotate them out at the top of the kick.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:53:31 GMT

I think you know how to do it, but you just need more practise. your technique is actually pretty good but your body didn´t get it yet, Im sure if you practise enough, trying to get a faster pull, stronger kick, and more rhythm you will be faster.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Allen Stark — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:49:21 GMT

Regarding the kick problem I mentioned,a good drill for you would be kicking breaststroke on your back so you can watch to make sure your knees don't break the surface.I agree,your pull is way too far back,your hand should never go past your shoulder.You don't get into a tight enough ball on the turn and as a result you have to twist your self around which slows you down.Keep it up,the world needs more breaststrokers.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:42:00 GMT

I noticed your head stays very low and I think as a result, your feet (heels) come out of the water. I don't know what goes on below the surface but I suspect that you have a hard time getting into an EVF position. I like the way you finish your stroke and with that being said, I would use a pull buoy and time a 100 pull and work on making it faster. Also time your 100 kick to improve it. Your knees are out too far in my opinion. Watch Brendan Hansen's video's on youtube (it can only help). From one breaststroker to another, Good luck. Go to Google and youtube and type in EVF+swimming to learn more about the importance of EVF.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:51:12 GMT

Lightning, what I mean is that when you recover your arms, you seem to be falling into the water with your chest rather than trying to generate more forward momentum. So basically you should try to lunge more forward, because you are above the water, your momentum will have some vertical component and you should settle down into a streamline naturally.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:58:45 GMT

Paul, thanks for the detailed feedback, I think I knew I wasnt getting enough from the pullout and taking advantage of my length but I didnt know why or where to change it. I understand the kick - I tend to use my knees and not enought hips, but what do you mean by snapping my hands? Also, do you mean increase my stroke rate an additional 5-6 strokes per length or totalling 5-6; right now my lowest is about 6 (going easy) and going fast I go about 9-10. Regarding the turn, I know I need a lot of work - I think first I need to time several strokes going into the wall to hit it just right, then I've saw another video suggesting snapping one arm back and the the body following it - is this your approach? Thanks again! Cowsvils; I appreciate the comments on my feet - I'll try setting them more apart before kicking. Regarding lungeing, I'm not sure I understand, do you mean lungeing forward rather than down, and through the air rather then water, then letting gravity settle your body into the water before moving into streamline? Thanks very much!

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

rtodd — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:55:50 GMT

I think you are too slow in recovering your arms forward. You are barely getting your arms recovered before your kick. So maybe there is a bit of a timing issue. You are also pulling WAY to far back. It looks like your hands are down around your belly button. I don't think they should drop back beyond your nipples. I think during your pull you are dropping your elbows and not getting a strong pull with your forearms (you are tucking away your elbows too early). If you want to come out of the water that much, you need an over the surface recovery and it needs to be more ballistic to help engage your core. If you swim a 35, perhaps you should have given us a more race tempo video. Maybe slowing down for clarity, you were messing yourself up a little. It looks like you have the right stuff to be fast.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:20:39 GMT

Two things that I noticed, the first is that you appear to be starting your kick a little bit too close together, forcing you to go out and then move water back. Try setting your feet so that they are about shoulder width apart and concentrate on pushing water straight back. The second one may be because of how it was videoed, but it appears your first motion on your recovery is straight down into streamline position rather than lunging forward into your streamline, which would keep your speed up much higher.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

knelson — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:50:24 GMT

Also, a better, faster stronger pull out will help that too. I also noticed the pullout looked a little lackadaisical. Really work on a tight streamline position and doing the pull and kick with quick, forceful motions.

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

pwolf66 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:32:22 GMT

I meant 5-6 per length. 9 strokes is too much, I'm at 7-8 and I'm trying to cut at least one off of that. Also, a better, faster stronger pull out will help that too. As for the hand snap, I mean that it looks like your entire pull out is at about the same rate instead of really powering the last 12-16 inches. There is _some_ snap there but not enough, you really need to snap your hands down to your thighs. When I really snap my hands down, that helps me to key into a really strong dolphin kick. A good turn in any 50 is critical and really comes down to timing. You're on the right track by trying to find out the best combination of strake rate and stroke length to get you to the wall in optimum position. You want to be going into the wall right at the end of your kick and really lunge for the wall. Right before you touch, start to drop one shoulder down. Now some folks say to train to turn off either shoulder side but I don't, I train to turn to my right. So as I hit the wall, I want my body to be tilted at a 45 degree angle towards by right, as soon as I touch, I immediately drop my right arm down and back and throw my left arm over to meet it. Once my hands meet, I immediately push off the wall as hard as I can. My angle on push off is about 45 degrees rotated towards my stomach. I then level out to start my pullout. Unlike when you or I was swimming age group (about 20+ years ago), the only requirements with regards to being rotated fully towards the *** and on the same plane with the hands was when a stroke is made with the hands or a breaststroke kick is executed. The only restrictions on touching or leaving the wall is that you must be rotated TOWARDS the ***, you do NOT have to be parallel to the pool bottom. Paul

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

Allen Stark — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:18:32 GMT

I have to get to a meeting so I'll say more later,but the big thing is your kick recovery is REALLY slowing you down.You bend at the hips and you have your knees outside your feet.Recover your feet by only bending your knees,keep your knees about 8" apart on the recovery,turn your ankles out just before the kick and then kick straight back(your feet will follow a curved course because they are outside your knees.)

RE: Needing Breaststroke Feedback on Video

pwolf66 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:47:41 GMT

I'm a 40-44 M who goes 33.5/1:13.4 in *** so we sound like we're at about the same place. What I've noticed are: 1) Pull out - You need to really SNAP those hands at the bottom of the pull out. 2) Dolphin Kick - On your pullout, your kick starts about .25 seconds too early, your hands are still at shoulder level when you start the dolphin kick. Try and get the timing a little closer to when your hands start the SNAP at the bottom. 3) Dolphin Kick - The kick on your pullout needs to be a lot stronger. This is yards, so it's all about maximizing the free speed on the start and turns. Really work that kick. The kick needs to be less knees and a lot more hips. 4) Stroke rate. While that cycle rate and glide might be good for a 200, for a 50 or even a 100 it's about 20% too slow. Increase your cycle rate to 5-6 strokes per length for yards and see how that works for you. 5) Turn - you want to work on your stroke distance so that you always kick into the wall at nearly full extension and never pull into the wall. This enables you to turn faster by allowing you to start dropping one arm down prior to the touch to speed the turn to that side. It looks like you're swimming in the old school style where the touch had to be at the same level. You stroke looks good. The above things are all small things that will help you go faster. I wish I had your streamline. Paul