2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:40:49 GMT

Here is a video from the past of a great breaststoke swimmer from 50 years ago. I met him in 1956 and 1958. www.ishof.org/.../terry_gathercole.htm

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:39:49 GMT

Check the video I posted above, its a brief clip and i'm not sure what the distance is but its got some good underwater footage.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:18:31 GMT

The timing in breaststroke is critical and the biggest headache for swimmers and coaches. When I train breaststrokers, I tell them to glide after their kick because most of my newbies cannot streamline well enough. Once they learn to streamline, my swimmers hesitate to get their hands in front of them fast enough and not outstretched fast enough. Then when they get that kink out they don't chamber their feet soon enough (after the completion of the kick the feet should be coming-up again) and must correct that problem. I have found out personally; That if I go super slow and concentrate on the timing, it helps me when I try to swim fast. I watch Brendan Hansen (my hero breaststroker) and his quick timing and use of his lats as he finishes his stroke is something I'm trying to mimic. I'd like to see more underwater video of him in a race to see when he releases his EVF to scull and finish. If anyone has some underwater video's of Hansen in a competition please forward it. Breaststrokers are fascinating and wonderful creatures and timing is the cross they all carry. God Bless them. Good luck! Coach T.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:19:28 GMT

Thx all for posting your comments! This is really an excellent way of getting feedback on your technique when you dont have a coach standing on the side shouting at you :) These are my conclusions so far (the ones I like and believe in myself): -When i pull and kick my movements are waaaayyy slower than the big guns. I tried to compare movements in centimeters per frame (30 frames per second) and the big guns almost move twice as fast as me... (I need to work on my strength and explosivity) -I raise my head to soon and too high...."eyes down below and eyes down above" (Dave Denniston) should be applied by me I think. -I am not as flexible in my ancles as I hopefully can be -My kick comes too soon. My kick should come when (almost for 50) in streamline...and when in streamline (for 100 and 200). -The recovery of my legs is causing a lot of speed loss since I pull them up by bending my hip joints instead of pulling them up in already disturbed water by bending my knees a little bit more. -My underwater kick has way too much amplitude -My head is too low and not perfectly streamlined (I can see my goggles during the whole underwater phase) -My pull can and should be much wider -My elbows could be higher in the initial phase of the pull creating more "catch" ...agree? br Per

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:42:00 GMT

Very nice to watch. I particularly enjoyed comparing your *** to the other swimmers in the background. :joker: HEY, that was me you were dissing there! :sad:

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:24:32 GMT

www.youtube.com/watch Unless I'm mistaken, he appears to be initiating his kick after his hands have re-entered the water, I'm not sure if I'm seeing this right or not.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:50:34 GMT

I think you should switch your name to "Superbreast!" Very nice to watch. I particularly enjoyed comparing your *** to the other swimmers in the background. :joker: Ankles/ general flexibility looked a little stiff. I would have guessed less glide if you were doing a 50 pace. During the insweep, it looks like your hands are coming in too close to your chest. Upon breathing, your head/ neck look like they are coming straight up (perpendicular to the water surface) as opposed to keeping your neck long on the breath which will help with keeping a forward "downhill" motion during the hand recovery. Nice job keeping hips up and close to the surface of the water. Read at your own risk. I am most likely the worst breaststroker on the face of the planet! :joker:

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

knelson — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:08:45 GMT

Your stroke looks good. I agree with quicksilver that you could use a little more glide after your kick. That's the only time during the *** stroke cycle where you are really streamlined and it makes sense to take advantage of it.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:14:48 GMT

I think of BR as 1.5 streamlines...one from the waist down as you pull...and the main one after you finish the kick. After the kick hold the streamline tight in your legs, right to your toes, as you transition to the pull to feel the waist down streamline. It's more of a swim drill I've done to try to hold back the kick from "blocking me out" in the water. I don't know if it's working into my stroke how I envision...I guess times will tell.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:04:38 GMT

I only use the fastest in the world and physics to make the point. When propulsion stops at any point, speed decreases. It may feel fast to streamline and glide (I like it myself) but speed is comprimised. Tomtopo wrote: I'm not sure I totally agree. I've been trying to improve my breastroke and I find the kick needs to come only after the arms have recovered and they are streamlined. Not only that, but the head needs to drop and the body come into alignment, then (or simultaneously) a strong kick. The legs should be cocking at the end of the pull. Superfly, I think it looks excellent. I don't see anything major (or minor). The tempo looks to be one of a 50 or 100. Maybe hold the glide longer in the 200. What are your times? I would imagine fast.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

rtodd — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:38:25 GMT

Tomtopo said: I only use the fastest in the world and physics to make the point. When propulsion stops at any point, speed decreases. It may feel fast to streamline and glide (I like it myself) but speed is comprimised. I watched again and maybe you are right....that he is cocking too late and should start a bit sooner, but I think you originally said "kick at the end of the pull" which I think should be kick at the end of the recovery....no?

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:18:29 GMT

I think glide depends on the pace, is way different if you are swimming 25m than 200m...even though I agree, you need more impulse from your shoulders and arms for better speed, I don´t mean longer glide, I mean STRONGER glide, (based on your race peace)

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Allen Stark — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 01:36:32 GMT

I basically agree,overall great stroke. I think your pull could be a little wider which would get your lats more involved(see the current Swimming World for an excellent drill and a good picture of Hansen's pull.)It is hard to tell from underwater but it looks like you are lifting your head a little much to breathe causing your hips to ride lower than they could. Also if you kicked very slightly more down it would get your hips higher on the streamline and give you more undulation.You are raising your thighs up by bending at the hips on the kick recovery more than I like to see.It isn't bad but I think it could be better.I also agree you have a little kick/pull overlap.Thats the way it was taught a few years ago,but there is more emphasis on the streamline now.Also your kick on the pullout was very narrow.Some coaches teach that,but I think if you have a good kick use it.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:25:16 GMT

You don't have a whole bunch of flaws but if you watch Brendan Hansen and other nationally ranked breaststrokers, they use their lats a whole bunch more than you seem to be doing. They use those big lats (elbows end-up near their ribs at the finish of their stroke). You also aren't chambering or cocking your feet soon enough (when your arms are done pulling your kick should start and they're not). Go to Google or utube and type in "EVF + swimming" there's a couple breatstroke vids and info that may help you. Good luck fellow breaststroker. Coach T.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:50:12 GMT

...very greatful for any improvement ideas, tips, trix and drills. Thx in advance! BR Per from side: www.youtube.com/watch from front/behind: www.youtube.com/watch Yes, you're a good breastroker, for sure. Still want to improve? Fix the timing, and fix the ankle flexibility (out to side, there are a few dry-land stretches that could help with this) You could keep your knees closer together and tilt feet outward more right when they are close to your gluts... Something that has worked for me is bringing the feet to the gluts very fast, while keeping the knees together... this action really helps to set up the next phase of pointing ankles/feet out, and it even feels like momentarily loading a spring...

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:06:40 GMT

I would like to see a little more forearm in the pull I thought you were dropping elbows. I could not see palms up during recovery, I just do not like the forearm to have stress. Very fast arm motion.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:55:16 GMT

It's difficult to be critical. Your stroke looks very good. And it's also fast. I would offer this as just an observation... Your tempo is very rapid. A fast pull, and fast kick, with minimal glide. Maybe because you have such a good sprint style? Would it make sense to stretch out after the kick before you dig in for the catch? That's the best place in the stroke cycle to squeeze out more speed...(just for a split second) rather than scooping water right away. Brendan Hansen demonstrates a little bit of "hang" time after each kick...he lunges and reaches www.youtube.com/watch

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

pwolf66 — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:33:02 GMT

Since I ain't a Breaststroker, the only advice I have is for your pullouts. Your pulling outside your shoulders, I would try to pull closer to your centerline. It should almost be a butterfly pull and by pulling closer to the centerline you can get a much better SNAP at the bottom. Also, it looks like your kick is not quite sync'ed to your streamline. It looks like your head is still dropping into position when your kick starts. But again, take those comments with a grain of salt. I wish my *** looked as good as yours. Paul

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:09:53 GMT

oh and i read that you kick a lot of air? I have that problem too, and it's really annoying. I find that when you break out, try to come out of the water at an upwards angle, that way, when you start your first pull, your legs wont come out. also, try pressing you legs, not hips, when you streamline. Keep your hips up and use them as a level to slightly lower your legs when you kick. but i think ur faster than me. I go a 1:05 SCY, and a 29.7 in my 50

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:05:15 GMT

it looks really good, but one thing i noticed is that you start your pull before your legs meet. Maybe thats a 50 tempo?

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:41:31 GMT

yeah, you are absolutely right...I tend to do that a little bit too often....especially on the first kick after the break out....my butt seems to be higher than normal in that phase thus kicking down a lot of air and loosing speed if I dont focus and remember to lower my legs just a little bit before kicking. after your pull out looks like you kicked a bunch of air ande

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:37:19 GMT

They are OK for my age group (35-39), but nothing spectacular at all. I feel i have much more potential though (dont we all ;) ). I have (in SCM) 31.2 in 50 and 1.09.1 in 100. It feels like I could easily go low 30s and 1.05-06 in 100 if I could just get that grip and power down into that darn water :) What are your times? I would imagine fast.

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

ande — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:24:08 GMT

looks pretty good to me after your pull out looks like you kicked a bunch of air ande

RE: 2 underwater videos of me swimming breaststroke...

rtodd — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:22:15 GMT

Tomtopo wrote: (when your arms are done pulling your kick should start and they're not) I'm not sure I totally agree. I've been trying to improve my breastroke and I find the kick needs to come only after the arms have recovered and they are streamlined. Not only that, but the head needs to drop and the body come into alignment, then (or simultaneously) a strong kick. The legs should be cocking at the end of the pull. Superfly, I think it looks excellent. I don't see anything major (or minor). The tempo looks to be one of a 50 or 100. Maybe hold the glide longer in the 200. What are your times? I would imagine fast.