Weight lifting and swimming

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:46:15 GMT

Great posts by Dorothy and Paul.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:34:39 GMT

Here is a great site for exercises, weight lifting etc. www.netfit.co.uk/.../external-oblique-exercise.htm www.netfit.co.uk/.../swimming-training.htm

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:05:17 GMT

As a movie released in 1977 said, in a galaxy a long time ago and far far away. Paul

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:40:32 GMT

Yeah, I hear you Dorothyrde. I just never get those comments. Muscle is sexy, period. Too much muscle is not, IMO but phu-leeze only about .0001% of the human population has the potential to look like a professional bodybuilder. I just smile politely and move on. And as for weight, it seems that you understand the secret. As it says in the bible, worship not false idols. Well, too many people worship the bathroom scale. Like lifting, eating right, stretching, proper sleep, etc. a scale is a way of monitoring your progress but without a basic understanding of the human body, it's a worthless measurement as it just gives you a number and doesn't tell you WHAT that number means. 2 IMPORTANT facts to remember. Muscle is 18% denser than the same volume of fat. 1 pound of muscle requires approximately 60 calories of energy in a day (at rest) where 1 pound of fat requires only 5. I find myself longing to get back to lifting so that's a very good feeling. Keep lifting!!!!! Paul

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

rtodd — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:36:44 GMT

Nice numbers Paul. I could barely squeak out 1000 lb total at 6'2" 180 lbs. Not the right body type, but I tried.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:30:41 GMT

Paul, Nothing earth shattering on its own, sure. But I saw you post in another thread that you had a 21.2 in the 50 free at one point, too. I think it's very cool that you were able to have that kind of success in two different sports. Deadlift is also my best lift of the big three, and I've only pulled 395. To me, 620 is huge.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:47:08 GMT

Paul, have you not been lifting lately? You don't mention it in your thread. You say you were a powerlifter. Did you compete very much? Any amazing numbers?

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:43:17 GMT

Well the deadlifting started 5 years after my first swimming career ended so I was not doing both even remotely closely together.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

dorothyrde — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:28:39 GMT

Thank you Paul. The term toning drives me bonkers. I hear it mostly from women who say they don't want to lift weight, they just want to "tone" up, and how do they do that because they don't want to bulk up. So I figure they must think I am bulky. Of course then they wonder how I can be as small as I am and weigh so much......

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 03:42:29 GMT

JH, I stopped powerlifting about 11 years ago due to real life issues. When I competed, I was in the 242.5 class and was up to 1555 total lift. My best event was deadlift at 620, followed by squat at 525 and bench at 410. Nothing earth shattering. But that was I realized that I was not going to advance much due to being as tall as I was, so when real life pressures started to mount, I stopped lifting but didn't stop eating like I was still lifting so next thing I know, 4 years ago I found myself at 312 pounds and really bad shape. So I fell back on weight training again but with a different focus. Paul

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:26:56 GMT

Great posts by Dorothy and Paul. Thanks, JH. This is one area where I have a lot of experience and if it wasn't for needing the income from my current line of work, I would be in exercise physiology. Still thinking about it but before I do I need to put my money where my mouth is and prove thru action that I know what I'm talking about. Paul

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:25:06 GMT

Weight lifting is good for swimming but I suggest you lift only small weight because your body is already having an exercise in the water when you have strokes using your arms. Goggle, Please take a more in depth read of my previous post. Lifting small weight as you say will either have no effect or have a very small increase in muscle strength. I do not recommend that swimmers pursue an all low rep high weight routine that is intended to increase muscle mass significantly but I do recommend that low-rep high weight routines be included to help vary the 'stress' on the muscle groups that will a) encourage them to grow and b) prevent them from adapting. This adaptation will lead effort without gain and will eventually lead to a loss of muscle fiber when the body adapts even further and figures out how to do more with less. A factor that everyone needs to consider is that the human body is a lazy mechanism. It is very good at adapting and with that adaptation comes a desire to do as little work as possible. Example, you lift long enough and intense enough to build up say 40 extra pounds of muscle. And then you gradually reduce the intensity over a couple of weeks, your body will eventually realize 'hey, we don't need 40 pounds of muscle anymore, all we need is 35' and that 5 pounds of muscle will atrophy as the body reduces the flow of blood and necessary energy (i.e glycogen) to said 5 pounds. That is the reason why when you take 2-3 weeks off exercising, you are not quite as strong as when you stopped. Just the nature of our bodies. Understanding that nature is a very powerful weapon. Paul

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:16:26 GMT

Everyone reading this thread should develop a comprehensive strength gaining program. One of the most important elements to a resistance training program is to create one that develops all the major muscle groups in a symmetrical manner. This means that you should strengthen muscles groups responsible for pushing and pulling or opposite muscle groups often called tagonist and antagonist groups. Heavy weights or repetitions of 8 to 12 to failure will maintain or increase size while higher repetitions to failure increases shape or tone (you need both). It's important for people to know that increasing or supplementing the amount of anything that is created naturally in your body (hormones, creatine, enzymes, etc.,) may often decrease or stop that natural production. So, if your body is producing a normal amount of testosterone and you arbitrarily increase that dosage, you body could actually lower the amount it makes on its own. So, unless you're tested and find out that you have a deficiency in producing important substances, don't start taking supplements. Weight training, cardio training, an effective nutritional regime with a youthful and healthful attitude toward life is just what the doctor ordered. Your swimming will get faster and you'll probably be happier. Good luck, Coach T.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

pwolf66 — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:06:20 GMT

As a former powerlifter, I have to jump in whenever someone uses the term 'tone'. There is no such thing when it comes to resistance training as an activity. Muscles do one of two things: 1) They grown larger and/or longer 2) They grow smaller and/or shorter. Now the goal of any resistance training program is to acheive option 1 but different programs acheive this at a varied rate of success. Muscle fibers tend to like status quo. So the goal of any resistance training exercise is to stress them to induce growth. This stress is actually a tearing down and rebuilding of the actual muscle fibers. The exercise performed creates the stress which 'damages' the muscle fibers of the targeted muscle group. The body reacts to this damage by repairing the damage during periods of rest and also creating more and/or denser muscle fibers to help resist any further 'damage'. It is this mechanism that creates the plateaus that occur during long term training of any kind. The body becomes adapted to the stress levels applied and because of this adaptation, now longer is 'reacting' to the levels of stress in a way that is requiring growth. That reaction is a huge reason why any long term resistance training program needs to be re-evaluated on a 8-10 week basis and why using multiple exercises and multiple angles of attack of each targeted muscle group is critical. Wow, I wandered off my original point a bit here. Back to the term 'toning'. There is no such thing as performing toning exercises. There are no exercises that will get you 'toned'. Toned is just a term referring to how visible your muscles are and no amount of weight lifting will 'tone' you. It's a combination of building muscle and losing the layer (or in my case LAYERS) of subcutaneous (i.e under the skin) fat. To simplify: Lower rep (4-6), higher weight (80% max) exercises help build additional muscle fiber Higher rep (12-15), lower weight (50-60% max) exercises help build additional muscle fiber Wow, they BOTH help build muscle? How is THAT possible? BUT, each does it to a differing success level. And to do it effectively a balance between the two needs to be maintained in training (remember the body's ability to adapt?). And training closer to lower rep, higher weight ranges will create more 'stress' on muscles and will promote the highest degree of hypertrophy ( a fancy term meaning muscle growth). Does this mean that lifting this way will 'bulk' you up? No, not for most of the human population and I mean both male and female. Both men and women should engage in strength training exercises on a regular basis. Paul

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:22:36 GMT

I think there are two things going on in weight lifting, the first is that as Jake pointed out, it creates/changes slow twitch into fast twitch fibers. This is undeniably good for a sprinter, because it allows to move their arms through the water quicker, creating more propulsion. The other factor is the actual *bulking up* i.e. putting on x pounds of muscle. In the gym, both of these have the same results (being able to put up more weight than you could before). However, it could be that just one of these factors (the fast twitch muscle %) actually improves sprinting speed. This might be the reason that guys like Mangini are very small, yet are able to move very fast. I would also be willing to bet that if you took some of those guys and put them into the gym, they could do some impressive stuff. It would be interesting to see a comparison between typical weight lifting, highly explosive medicine ball workouts, and regular sprint training. And Paul, if you are really into crossfit, check out the workout of the day here: navyseals.com/crossfit-workout-day

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:38:46 GMT

Wow, look at this! :weightlifter: The Webmaster's great-uncle knew how to use kettlebells! Anna Lea

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:59:56 GMT

To those of you who do not believe that strength training will benefit your swimming as you age I greatly encourage you to research Sarcopenia and what it does to the human body (and with that athletic performance). Here is a short article that outlines Sarco in brief and what can be done to combat it. This is ESPECIALLY important for females as strength training not only combats Sarcopenia but can increase bone mineral density which is something that EVERY female post 40 should be highly interested in. Swimming cannot increase BMD so strength training should be a high priority for not only athletes over the age of 35 but especially females. The male animal should be highly interested in strength training for not only combating Sarcopenia and elevating bone mineral density but perhaps more so for the hormonal response that comes with lifting heavy weight. It is well documented that strength training increases testosterone levels and that is something that every man post 40 should care highly about. So whether you are a male or female regardless of whether or not you think strength training will help your swimming as you age (I believe it will) the actual health benefits of proper strength training far outweigh the possibility of it slowing you in the pool (which I believe it won't anyway). """ In physically inactive people there is a loss of about of lean muscle mass every year between age 25 and 60, and a corresponding decline in muscle strength. From age 60 on, the rate of loss doubles, to about 1%. It doubles again at age 70; again at age 80, and then again at age 90. How does this translate to the human body? We are losing muscle mass, and that muscle mass is being replaced by fat cells. Typically an individual wonders why they develop a “pouch” gut, or why their thighs or buttocks are becoming larger. We realize we are not gaining muscle mass in these areas, but losing muscle mass and fat cells are gaining in size. Most people can envision this process occurring in their body from the age of 30 on. Inactive people normally have the most servere atrophy (loss of muscle mass), but active people also may experience atrophy of the muscle. The greatest loss is experienced with the fast twitch (FT) versus the slow twitch (ST) muscles. The FT muscles are used for high-intensity, anaerobic movements (weight lifting) while the ST are employed for activities such as running, dancing, biking, etc. With aging and inactivity, the most atrophy is seen in the fast twitch (FT) fibers which are recruited during high-intensity, anaerobic movements. Although sarcopenia is mostly seen in physically inactive individuals, it is also evident in individuals who remain physically active throughout their lives. Present finding suggests that physical inactivity is not the only contributing factor to sarcopenia. Current research is finding that the development of sarcopenia is a multifactor process. Many factors, including physical inactivity, motor-unit remodeling, decreased hormone levels, and decreased protein synthesis, may all contribute to sarcopenia. Fortunately, sarcopenia is partly reversible with appropriate exercise interventions. The purpose of this article is to focus on Sarcopenia and the importance of resistance training in preventing it and reversing its effect. The other important aspect is the decrease of hormones and the reduction of protein synthesis to build and maintain muscle mass. These are also an effect of the aging process that few people are aware of. What causes Sarcopenia? The aging process Physical inactivity Reduction of hormone production in the human body as we age i. Testosterone - ii. Human growth hormone Decrease of protein synthesis ability within the human body as we age Female estrogen levels may also play a role in the development of sarcopenia during and after menopause. This topic has limited research, but it does appear that many females develop a “pouch” after menopause.I believe it is important to mention hormones and protein uptake, but I would like to keep the focus of this article on Sarcopenia. I will cover hormones and protein uptake for another article. Why is resistance or weight training mentioned so often with weight loss? We know weight training is considered anaerobic - The term anaerobic is defined as "without oxygen." Anaerobic exercise uses muscles at high levels of intensity and a high rate of work for a short time period. Anaerobic exercise (weight training) helps us increase our muscle strength and therefore increases muscle size. If your strength increases, then muscle cell must increase in size. If we go back to where this article started… Sarcopenia can be stopped and reversed with proper weight training. Moreover the muscle mass we are creating is also known as lean body mass. For every 10 pounds of lean body mass we carry on our bodies, 500 calories per day is consumed to maintain that body mass. Yes, you may burn more calories by running or walking, but these activities will not increase muscle mass as weight training does. If you consider weight training as curling 2 or 3 pound dumbbells as you watch TV, you should consult with a local weight lifting trainer or join a health club. These individuals or organizations will help you reach your goals in a safe and knowledgeable manner. It is extremely important that you learn the proper techniques and lifting form(s). Proper training will insure results, safety and help prevent unnecessary injuries.""" - Richard Train Paul, I bolded those parts for you because I think that is a very important thing for you to consider for your sprints as you age. Also, I have officially offered to fly you and Robert out to Pennsylvania in 2027 for an all expense paid trip to see me trap bar deadlift 450+ lbs at 44 years of age. Are you game?

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:17:16 GMT

I believe being stronger must be good since I then can use less of my muscular maximum capacity to go the same speed as before...this will have positive effect on both my speed potential and my endurance. I therefore try to become as strong and explosive as possible in the gym with all variations of sets and reps....mostly 3x4-6 (to become stronger) all the way up to 2-3x12-20 (when "resting" and preparing for the next hard week) goes hand in hand with "Jazz Hands" theory but contradicts "the trainer" hmmm... /Per

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:56:13 GMT

There are certain ways to work out for different results. Defensive linemen are going to workout differently from a sprinter or a basketball player for that matter. As a swimmer, for the most part, you want to train for speed and endurance. Your workout will consist of lighter weights with more repetitions. And you want to focus on functional compound movements--movements that use multiple joints--because that's how you move when you're swimming. The muscles should be trained together, in conjunction with one another; not separately.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

funkyfish — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:41:02 GMT

An interesting article that was on another forum..... www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do Interesting read. Have to see if Mr. Chek's book is in the library.

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

ande — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:37:04 GMT

interesting discussion each swimmer has to assess his own situation and figure out what's the best course of training action to swim faster, I believe I need to: 1) be stronger from weight training and core training I'm no where near the point of diminshing returns 2) weigh less 3) SDK faster 4) swim faster times in practice 5) train to properly split races

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Paul Smith — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:43:53 GMT

An interesting article that was on another forum..... www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

funkyfish — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:31:04 GMT

Kettlebells... Hmmm. Funny how the camera doesn't always seem to be focused on the kettlebells in this video... www.youtube.com/watch :p Hot dog! After that, I'm so not waiting till Christmas to get some. Do they come with one or two workout babes?!

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:11:27 GMT

Kettlebells... Hmmm. Funny how the camera doesn't always seem to be focused on the kettlebells in this video... www.youtube.com/watch :p

RE: Weight lifting and swimming

Paul Smith — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:22:36 GMT

Darn it. Paul, you got me excited about kettlebells again and after reading up on it again, I don't know if I can wait for Christmas! I heard about it many, many years ago from some russians at the world university games....like you I've tried some modified crossfit exercsies using similar movements and really felt that it was effective...but still...swinging those darn things between my legs is maybe out of the realm of what I'm comfortable with!