Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:27:23 GMT

Terry, Thanks for the technical discussion from your forum... I'm the kind of person to enjoy that sort of article. The trick is translating these concepts into regular language, while still encompassing the scope. Not an entirely easy process, but certainly worth doing. I live in Western Canada... Pretty much the opposite side of the continent from you... Interesting how we can network this way. I could go on and on about just that subject alone, but I'm sure you get the picture. Happy swimming, Jonathan Miller

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

The Fortress — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:27:14 GMT

During a camp in Coral Springs two weeks ago I gave a brief talk on training, in which I said that I considered there to be two types of training: 1) Sensations Training - in which the focus is to create muscle memory and to gradually increase one's ability to make subtle discriminations in "sense memory." Sense memory will be one's primary guide while racing. 2) "Math" Training - in which one's focus is on finding the optimal combination of SL and SR to create maximal V with minimal energy cost. This involves stroke counts, swim golf, "gears" sets and use of a tempo trainer. But sense memory is still critical, as you'll want to retain the sense of your stroke that occurs when the "math" is coming out well. I've always disliked math, and I don't enjoy applying it to swimming, although I can see the value. I have to force myself to count strokes. So I guess I'm in the kinesthetic camp. Although I try to put a lot of cognitive thought into how to train or what stroke corrections to make. I suspect one's approach to swimming -- sensory or math -- depends somewhat on one's personality and intellectual bent.

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:27:02 GMT

Obviously, I don't know about others, but if watching and then trying worked for me, I'd be a world class swimmer by now. It turns out that watching has little value on its own, and neither does repeated "trying." I have to watch, try, and then have my attempt corrected by outside feedback over and over again in order to make the tiniest of changes. Unfortunately, the external feedback is not only useful but critical for me, which suggests I have very little kinesthetic awareness because I need to be told what I'm doing rather than feeling it myself-- and that lack is the main reason I never even tried to participate in athletic endeavors as a child: I was always a terrible kinesthetic learner. In that regard, however, I expect that I'm less the rule than the exception among masters swimmers. Echo, you could have been describing me! I have no natural athletic ability whatsoever. In school I was always at the top of the class academically, with no effort. But I flunked the President's physical fitness test every year. I'm still painfully slow compared to most Masters swimmers. But I am healthy and physically fit, thanks to swimming! Anna Lea

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:26:04 GMT

Very true, Jonathan. I always enjoy your insights. Thanks, you know Jazzy, you might want to make the most of your youth by trying to understand your elders. Stay open-minded about your options.... I challenge you to do this program for the next two years. forums.usms.org/showpost.php INCLUDING THE WATER WORK-OUTS IN THE THREAD. Also, try the ankle stretches, and core routine... You will smash your life-time best through this program...

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:59:32 GMT

True for me as well. I spent the first 10 or so years of my swimming experience kinesthetically clueless. I had the chance to observe from the deck -- and more importantly to experiment with athletes -- the fog gradually began to lift. Terry Laughlin, Excellent to make your acquaintance, you are a pillar of knowledge in the swimming world. I really liked your reply to this thread, and I'm looking forward to learning more from you. I can relate to the lifting of the fog analogy. Where is New Paltz NY? I'm very far away, but it is really neat that we can network through this forum, and meet each other. My dreams are near to your reality. Happy swimming, Jonathan R. Miller

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

funkyfish — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:52:01 GMT

Obviously, I don't know about others, but if watching and then trying worked for me, I'd be a world class swimmer by now. It turns out that watching has little value on its own, and neither does repeated "trying." I have to watch, try, and then have my attempt corrected by outside feedback over and over again in order to make the tiniest of changes. Unfortunately, the external feedback is not only useful but critical for me, which suggests I have very little kinesthetic awareness because I need to be told what I'm doing rather than feeling it myself-- and that lack is the main reason I never even tried to participate in athletic endeavors as a child: I was always a terrible kinesthetic learner. In that regard, however, I expect that I'm less the rule than the exception among masters swimmers. Good point. I can read and hear about technique, but until I try it out it's not very clear to me. I'm probably on the kinesthetic learning side, although I certainly accept and respond to outside coaching/instruction. I've also found that (nothing new here) when correcting technique, initially the "feeling" feels way off and unnatural, and it takes time to adjust to the "new, correct" sensation. :applaud::groovy:;):applaud::groovy:;)

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

funkyfish — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:14:21 GMT

I'd be curious as to what the majority of swimmers would say in regards to "how they learned" or "how they refined this or that stroke." When teaching, we're supposed to say, show, demonstrate the same thing several different ways to try and reach as many different learning styles as possible. Maybe we could poll swimmers as to which learning style they thought was the most dominant? As in, are you an auditory, visual, or kinesthetic learner? I suspect it's a combination, but maybe for some, one type dominates. Or maybe it evolves, as in - we hear or see instruction, try it, and by doing it we react to the sensations. I should stop now as I'm rambling. Good post though. :groovy:

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:02:30 GMT

I'd be curious as to what the majority of swimmers would say in regards to "how they learned" or "how they refined this or that stroke." ... As in, are you an auditory, visual, or kinesthetic learner? I suspect it's a combination, but maybe for some, one type dominates. Or maybe it evolves, as in - we hear or see instruction, try it, and by doing it we react to the sensations. Obviously, I don't know about others, but if watching and then trying worked for me, I'd be a world class swimmer by now. It turns out that watching has little value on its own, and neither does repeated "trying." I have to watch, try, and then have my attempt corrected by outside feedback over and over again in order to make the tiniest of changes. Unfortunately, the external feedback is not only useful but critical for me, which suggests I have very little kinesthetic awareness because I need to be told what I'm doing rather than feeling it myself-- and that lack is the main reason I never even tried to participate in athletic endeavors as a child: I was always a terrible kinesthetic learner. In that regard, however, I expect that I'm less the rule than the exception among masters swimmers.

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:02:53 GMT

Very true, Jonathan. I always enjoy your insights. I often find myself trying for certain feelings in the water that are difficult to describe in words. Even if I could describe the feelings in words, those words would be interpreted differently by different people. So I could say, "I get the feeling that when I'm really sprinting well, my kick lets me glide on the surface." Not everybody will necessarily relate to that the way I do. And maybe in a few months I will have to reach for an entirely different sensation in order to swim my fastest.

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Former Member — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:21:44 GMT

Most technique debates seem to devolve into The War of Competing Analogies.

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

Allen Stark — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:48:54 GMT

Different people need to learn differently.I agree swimming is a very kinethetic experience,but there are lots of ways to swim slowly that feel good.It helps me to know why it's best to do things a certain way.

RE: Kinesthetic Awareness vs Cognitive Analysis

The Fortress — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:55:07 GMT

Most technique debates seem to devolve into The War of Competing Analogies. Very Mindful of you.