Stefan Nystrand

RE: Stefan Nystrand

mikeh — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 07:48:03 GMT

Very interesting thread, and fascinating film clip of Stefan Nystrand. Strange stroke but no doubt he moves faster than all but a few in the world.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:55:15 GMT

ditto for me sans invite Fort.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

The Fortress — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:54:55 GMT

Interesting article on straight arm freestyle from The Race Club site: The Straight-Arm Freestyle Recovery By Gary Hall, Sr. Recently, I was watching a video telecast on the Web of the World Cup meet in Berlin, hoping to catch a glimpse of some of the Race Club swimmers competing in the 100 m Freestyle. Mostly, I was captivated by the swim of Stefan Nystrand of Sweden, who dominated an impressive field of sprinters, and did so with a straight-arm recovery. The straight-arm recovery in Freestyle is not new. I am not sure who was the first to use it, but in my memory bank, which has a rather small deposit, Janet Evans comes to mind. Others have succeeded using it as well….Kristen Otto (plus steroids), Inge de Bruijn, Michael Klim, just to name a few. The straight-arm recovery is not pretty. In fact, it looks down right strange….but, then again, how much time gets deducted for a pretty stroke? Zippo. The question is…”will it make you swim faster?” Science and logic would seem to support a “yes” response. Why? Well, the arm has weight to it, perhaps 5,6 or 7 pounds. I’m guessing, as I have never lopped one off to weigh it. Even though more of the arm’s weight is at the proximal end (near the shoulder) than the distal end (near the hand), our recovery requires that we swing the arm back to the front to be in the position for another pull. This can be done with the arm swung either to the side or straight over the top and with the elbow either bent or locked (straight arm). There are two primary objectives of the arm recovery. The first is to put the arm back in the position for the strongest underwater power or pull as fast as possible. The second is to transfer as much energy or inertia from the arm to the body as possible. By transferring this arm energy to the body, we help to continue to propel the body through the water. Bending the elbow on the freestyle recovery might give us a slight advantage on the first objective. Since it shortens the distance that the hand needs to travel it likely allows one to get the hand back into the power position slightly faster than with a straight arm. I am speculating here because I have never actually timed it. However, with the second objective, a straight-arm recovery has a clear advantage over the bent elbow and allows more transfer of energy to the body. The transfer of energy from the arm to the body depends on several factors. One is distance. The further the weight is away from the body, the better. A second is speed. The faster the weight is swung, the better. Consider a discus thrower. Although he transfers his body’s energy to the discus, he does so by extending the discus as far out as the arm will allow and by generating as much speed of the discuss as possible before it is released. The more body weight and the faster the speed, the further the discus will fly; more energy transferred. Imagine if, instead of arms, you had ropes attached to your shoulders with a five-pound weight attached to each rope. If you wanted to transfer as much of the weight’s energy to your body, you would swing the weight with the rope fully extended as fast as possible and would stop the swing with the arm in the horizontal position in front of you…just like casting a fishing pole with a lead weight on it. In that fashion, the maximum amount of energy will “pull” your body, since there is no more line to let out. Further, just like in casting, you would want to swing the arms directly over the top, not around the side, so the energy will propel your body forward instead of to the side. This is the effect of the straight-arm recovery. Think about backstroke. You wouldn’t dare consider a bent-arm recovery in backstroke (I think Adolph Kiefer may have been the last to do that in the 36 Olympics). Try it sometime and you will see what I mean. So if straight-arm works so much better for backstroke, why not in freestyle? There are two reasons I can think of. The first is that it doesn’t feel natural. Few have even tried it. It is not the way we were taught how to swim freestyle, so why change? I have not yet tried a straight-arm recovery in competition, but I can already tell it makes me faster in practice. It also makes me swim with what Mike Bottom calls the “shoulder driven” freestyle stroke. The second is that the shoulder joint does not extend (move rearward) as easily as it flexes (moves forward). So to recover with a straight arm directly over the top in freestyle means that the entire body needs to rotate from side to side. Yet this is a good thing. In other words, by using a high, straight-arm recovery, we are forced into more shoulder rotation and consequently, more hip rotation, which also helps propel us forward. So if straight-arm recovery is that good, why doesn’t everyone use it? First, it takes more work to do it properly. Rotating those shoulders and hips in practice is not easy. Some just don’t have the flexibility they need to do it and trying repeatedly could impinge the shoulder and cause pain. And like anything else, it takes practice. For me, it felt very strange for over a week. Now, I really like the feeling of the straight-arm recovery and can sense the energy transferring with every stroke. The straight-arm freestyle recovery is not for everyone, but it might work for you. Just remember not to turn your arms over like a slow, revolving windmill in Holland or a rotisserie chicken. You have to whip those babies over the top like you mean it. Extend the shoulder. And as far as that delicate hand entry into the water, forget it. Of course, when sprinting the hand needs to be in the position for an immediate catch, but great swimmers find a way to grab hold of the water. If you’re still not sure you get it, come down here to a Race Club camp and let me show you how. You see, I can teach young or old dogs how to do new tricks.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 15:24:17 GMT

After watching the 200 IM again I was a little amused by the reaction from Lochte... He seemed disappointed with the 1:40.08... Quote. "Well I wanted to be under 1:40" I suppose there's not really much to say, but I would have loved to interview him post race... I didn't really get a reaction/response out of anyone from this post, so I figure I'll just say what I was thinking at the time when I watched the post-race interview..." Me - "Whoa, 1:40.08 for 200 IM SCY, way to go MAN!!" Lochte - "Ya, well I wanted to be under 1:40" Me - "Under 1:40?? Come on now, you're the fastest in all history, you're the fastest that ever was... give me something, a smile, a chuckle, you know man?" Lochte - "ya, the 50 free is next." Me - "Okay, the vast majority of people, who don't swim, might be watching you race... They could have a bathtub showdown with you doing the 200 IM and they'll be doing 8 lengths of the tub; you'd still win. I'd be in the tub thinking, hmmm should I do a hand touch or a flip turn, or maybe I should take a breather at the half-way mark, you know, I've preparing for this race since... yesterday. You'd be standing there saying, hmmmm I could have gone 1:39!!" :applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:25:45 GMT

Stefan won the 50 SCM European Championship relatively easy yesterday (as easy as a 50 free final can get that is) untapered and unshaved (I guess some of the form from the world cup are still there) Time 21.11 impressive guy!!! tomorrow, saturday is the 100 m free...

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:27:44 GMT

The USA Swimming webcast of the 50 at nationals can be seen at swimnetwork.com/index.php . Check out the strokes. And see what the starts and walls do for Lochte, Coughlin and Phelps. After watching the 200 IM again I was a little amused by the reaction from Lochte... He seemed disappointed with the 1:40.08... Quote. "Well I wanted to be under 1:40" I suppose there's not really much to say, but I would have loved to interview him post race...

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:54:31 GMT

One might also note that Stefan Nystrand isn´t only a fast sprint freestyler but also very accomplished over other distances. He, for instance, holds the Swedish records in both 50 SCM breaststroke with a 27.08 and the 100 IM with a 53.97. At the recent Swedish SCM Nationals he also went a 50 fly on 22 some seconds in the relay as well as a 1.44 split in the 4x200 relay. Hence, he´s got a magnificient and 21st century technique that somewhat throws old knowledge overboard, but also has developed specific physiological qualities through training. Noteworthy is also that Therese Alshammar and Lars Frölander train closely to Stefan in Stockholm.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:04:59 GMT

It's now late enough in the year for me to throw in my annual reminder of Doc Counsilman's definitive last word to all athletes. "ALWAYS ASSERT ACCELERATI0N" Whatever sport you watch. Whether it be baseball, basketball, rowing, soccer, football, and, of course, anykind of race, including swimming. I appologize. I almost got it right. The exacet quote should have been: "ALWAYS ACCENT ACCELERATION"

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Rob Copeland — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:31:18 GMT

Since you weree at nationals...is it safe to say that sprinters are using more of a straight arm recovery for freestyle?The USA Swimming webcast of the 50 at nationals can be seen at swimnetwork.com/index.php . Check out the strokes. And see what the starts and walls do for Lochte, Coughlin and Phelps.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:07:47 GMT

The USA Swimming webcast of the 50 at nationals can be seen at swimnetwork.com/index.php . Check out the strokes. And see what the starts and walls do for Lochte, Coughlin and Phelps. Rob, Thank you kindly for that link... I thoroughly enjoyed my morning tea, while watching my favorite sport... (it's good to have a healthy network) Jonathan

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:04:18 GMT

One might also note that Stefan Nystrand isn´t only a fast sprint freestyler but also very accomplished over other distances. He, for instance, holds the Swedish records in both 50 SCM breaststroke with a 27.08 and the 100 IM with a 53.97. 27.08 for 50 ***???!!! Incredible... he should take the masters 25-29 50 *** WR of 27.69 That makes so much sense now that I watch his freestyle straight on video's... His pull does have that sort of single-arm in-sweep...

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:41:57 GMT

Ooosc, You seem to have a lot of inside info reg Stefan. Anything else you can reveal for the rest of us? :notworthy: No, some swedish friends told me about it only. but his training is extremely scientific, with tests of all kinds. of his stroke, to measure power etc.. and lactac acid tests apparently. There are a bunch of videos of the details of his swimming out on youtube. so apparently he uses a lot of videoanalysis as well.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:20:41 GMT

Thanks for the insight.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:02:04 GMT

Rob, Since you weree at nationals...is it safe to say that sprinters are using more of a straight arm recovery for freestyle? What are your thoughts on it? Good for all distances or mainly 50-200 free? Does Natalie Coughlin use more of a straight arm recovery?

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:29:01 GMT

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Rob Copeland — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:03:37 GMT

There were a few swimmers using a straight arm recovery, nothing like Nystrand’s windmill. It appears that the straight arm swimmers have a slightly higher tempo than the traditional swimmers. Their hand speed on recovery is definitely faster and this may lead to a quicker hand speed on the pull. But I couldn’t say for certain. I didn’t notice Coughlin using a straight arm recovery. What I did see is that of all the women, she was superior to the field in maintaining speed from dive to transition to swim, and then into and out of turns. Lochte on the men’s side was also crushing all his walls, especially in the backstrokes where he beat the field by a yard or so on each turn. Very similar to Phelps’ fly and free turns. My personal thought is that windmill and straight arm recovery can place a tremendous strain on the shoulders, however with the lower mileage volume and increased weight room work of modern sprinters (50-100), they can better handle this strain without as much risk of injury. Swimmers who train at a higher volume need to a more human physique friendly stroke.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Rob Copeland — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:49:03 GMT

Anyone like the description I provided of Nystrand's underwater mechanics?Well, since you asked, I believe that you a way off base in your analysis of the propulsive force of Nystrand's kick I do agree that the energy output required to produce effective forward motion with the kick is far greater than that needed to generate a similar speed pulling alone. However, today’s elite swimmers are trained to use both pulling and kicking to increase speed. Just looking at the videos, I’d guess that Nystrand can kick 50 SCM in under 30 seconds. This is not a trivial propulsive force and does significantly increase his overall swimming speed. “the energy saved in his legs can be used in the main propulsive engine, his arms.” The man is swimming for 22 seconds, there is no need to save energy for his arms. These are anaerobic swims, there is no saving energy from legs to use in arms. The video analysis guru, is correct for races over a mile, but in today’s world, the kick is an important propulsive force in most every elite pool swimmer.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 07:03:13 GMT

Anyone like the description I provided of Nystrand's underwater mechanics?

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:02:36 GMT

Sure, I'm really just trying to understand the mechanics... To be totally honest, I don't know with absolute certainty how Nystrand does what he does. (Good conversation starter though) The kick is very important for maintaining body position, and in most cases the kick is an integral part of sprinting, without a doubt... The comment about the video analysis guru, was an error on my part... Actually, I spoke with him today, and obviously I misunderstood his comments from 10 years ago... he was speaking about relative propulsion from the kick in comparison to the arm cycle, fair enough... I still don't understand how Nystrand does what he does... Again, I was just trying to understand this anomaly, this isn't something I personally subscribe to. In fact, without my kick I really wouldn't swim very well at all... That is the whole idea behind this thread, to improve the kick... forums.usms.org/showpost.php Happy Swimming,

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:52:48 GMT

What I found interesting ...not only with his swim...but also at the short course yards championships...is how many sprinters are using the straight arm recovery. Kind of looks like inverted backstroke. Can't argue how fast it is though. Ive seen it that people use the straight arm recovery could be something that its alot faster then to use the bended arm! you will get a better and probebly a faster stroke!

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 10:20:21 GMT

This man has HYPER-EXtendable arms and shoulders. He can put his hands on his waist, and have his elbows touch eachother in front of him. The same movement he uses for his strong catch right when breaking the surface. That should explain why he is not shoulder injured. Also, he never does more than 3000 meters / workout. His training is perfectly tailor made for him. And he performs. // O Ooosc, You seem to have a lot of inside info reg Stefan. Anything else you can reveal for the rest of us? :notworthy:

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:16:50 GMT

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:35:11 GMT

You're right. The above water now looks more like the inverted backstroke everyone described. Much cleaner. ..but still an aggressive hand and arm entry. An unusual style altogether.

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:17:03 GMT

Quicksilver, that vid is over 5 years old...his technique now is even more extreme than 2002...so he must think he has found something great in this otherwise he would have gone back to the herd...right?

RE: Stefan Nystrand

Former Member — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:21:11 GMT

I always tell my age group swimmers to move through the water quietly. "If you fight with the water...it's going to fight back". Less resistance is ideal. Having said that...if one of the kids were waging war with the water...I'd take them aside and go over the zen of swimming. I played this clip a few times along with the others...my perspective has been slightly shifted. Although I still advocate smooth swimming. Even if he looks like Johny lap swimmer doing the all out sprint from the deep end to the shallow....he's fast as .... www.youtube.com/watch