Sore shoulders normal?

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:29:17 GMT

Soreness after excercise is normal. Constant soreness is not. Your pushing hard and increasing your yardage all the time which is fine, but if you don't rest between workouts and allow your muscles to heal, not only will your performance suffer or at best improve more slowly, your training techniques might cause injury.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

rtodd — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:11:12 GMT

I bought paddles and are currently leaving them in the bag. I am working the fists into my workouts.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 05:20:07 GMT

I think paddles and closed fists are not needed. Just swim with proper technique.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 05:17:34 GMT

It's hard to believe that all these days have gone by and no one has mentioned the fact that swimming with closed fists takes the load off the shoulders. Thus, consistant warmups and warmdowns with closed fists are usually all one needs to prevent sore shoulders. Good for all strokes, feels strange for a while, slows you down only 10%, and increases your number of strokes per length by the same 10%.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:25:53 GMT

I have problems w/ impingement when I don't do a long slow warmup, when I do too much kickboarding (I really shouldn't ever pick one up), or when I start crossing-over on my hand entry on the freestyle. It sounds like you're already watching your technique though so things should get better.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:19:21 GMT

I used to get a little sore after a marathon race, I had a guy who would grab hold of all the tendons and tweak them til the muscles would release. It took two days of heavy masage before I was ready to go at it again.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:57:38 GMT

Fort - could it be that shoulder issues come from over use and or improper technique. My last shoulder problem was in 1964 after a very tough race. I wanted to win the race, I needed the money. The guy in my boat kept putting up a sign saying the others were comming fast. I finished 2 hours ahead of everyone else. He was not my regular boat guy. The rest of that year was a disaster for me, I swam the rest of the races in a very relaxed mode. I won lots of money but it should have been my best year. A lady on my masters team had shoulder surgery and said her problems started after an open water race with rough water, when she got separated from the pack and had to slog it out the rest of the way by herself.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

MAC swimmer — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:39:49 GMT

I really don't think your shoulders should be sore all the time. You should swim every other day for awhile and/or mix in recovery only workouts. And lose the paddles. I agree with Gull here...especially since I am just coming off a rotator cuff strain (canoeing injury). Paddles put even more strain on your shoulder muscles. Forget them if you are putting in 20K a week. Also watch for over bench pressing and go easy on the military press.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:54:33 GMT

I will try to work in rotator cuff workouts when I can to help strengthen. Maybe it is RC muscles deep in my shoulders that are sore. I will try to vary the workouts. Swimming is not easy. You may want to check out shoulder exs on www.exercisedb.com lots on that site..Shoulders are a big problem for weight trainees too..and a constant forum topic..

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

rtodd — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:26:00 GMT

I do the doubles because I only have an hour at noon, then 60-75 minutes in the evening. Good suggestion to bias one over the other. I don't lift weights anymore for upper body. I tried continuing lifting heavy when I started swimming and found out they don't go together at all. I only do legs now. Maybe pull ups once and a while which don't bother my shoulders. Dips, bench, press.....forget it! Recovery does not bother my shoulders at all so I guess that is a good sign. When I went through my "clicking" problem a while back, it was on the recovery. I just feel some discomfort in my left shoulder if I start pulling hard before my catch is complete. When I bike to cross train I day dream wishing I was swimming, so I don't do that often enough. Good suggestion though. My recovery is on the weekend. I finished another hard week and the shoulders are not getting worse so I am happy about that.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:06:25 GMT

I think a couple of things to consider: 1. stop the doubles. Inflammation, injury, soreness, etc. at minimum needs recovery time. 24 hours of recovery is much better than 8 hours between morning and afternoon. If you are motivated to maintain similar total distance per week - obviously lengthen your primary workout. Adding 500-1000 yds to that workout may not be so hard since you are already warmed up. The 2nd workout, especially if it is 1500 yds. may not be as beneficial for your conditioning anyways because you probably spend 25-35% warming up and warming down. I think 1000 more yds in the morning may be more impactful than 1500 in the afternoon. 2. If you are lifting weights stop or minimize exercises that typically cause more shoulder stress (bench press, military press). 3. I think an indicator of rotator cuff problems is pain on the recovery portion of the stroke. Recovery, especially on fly, is much more of a lifting motion than a pulling motion. 4. Consider replacing part of your swimming time with another cardiovascular exercise that doesn't use the shoulders. Just for reference - I'm 48, and have slightly troublesome shoulders. I do have occasional pain on fly and breaststroke (recovery phase). It was much worse two years ago and slowly improved as my shoulders got stronger. I swim 4 times per week for a total distance of about 13,000 meters (workouts range from 3000-3500 meters).

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:28:27 GMT

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:23:35 GMT

I can almost infer something just by the amount of responses. I think the subject is popular because alot of swimmers are walking around with sore shoulders? The subject is popular because a lot of swimmers are walking around with shoulders. Any repetitive overhead activity poses potential problems for the shoulder joint, especially as we age and the supporting muscle groups weaken or become imbalanced. If your shoulders are sore throughout the day and, perhaps more importantly, at night during sleep, you need to adjust your workouts, address any inflammation (tendinitis) or actual injury, and begin a rehab program. Otherwise the problem will only get worse. As I have posted previously, I believe all Masters swimmers should be doing rotator cuff exercises on a consistent basis. These are relatively small muscles that need to be targeted with specific exercises. You need a healthy rotator cuff if you want to swim.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:19:52 GMT

My shoulders were soooooooo sore yesterday. Lots of IBphrophen and then I had a massage. THEY are 80% better. I had a tough swim this morning lots of front crawl work using paddles and pull bouys. I thought OH BOY here we go. I am at work having a coffee:coffee: and I feel much better than yesterday. SO ALL IS WELL So for me massage helps. I am going to incorporate some shoulder exercises into my routine Katie

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

The Fortress — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:16:12 GMT

The subject is popular because a lot of swimmers are walking around with shoulders. Any repetitive overhead activity poses potential problems for the shoulder joint, especially as we age and the supporting muscle groups weaken or become imbalanced. If your shoulders are sore throughout the day and, perhaps more importantly, at night during sleep, you need to adjust your workouts, address any inflammation (tendinitis) or actual injury, and begin a rehab program. Otherwise the problem will only get worse. As I have posted previously, I believe all Masters swimmers should be doing rotator cuff exercises on a consistent basis. These are relatively small muscles that need to be targeted with specific exercises. You need a healthy rotator cuff if you want to swim. And that about sums it up perfectly! On my team, some of us have shoulder issues and some of us don't. It seems like those in the 40-60 range have more issues. But if you train a significant amount, you must be vigilant about shoulder health.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:58:07 GMT

Sven Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm very interesting. When we were at a Science Centre in Northern Ontario. They had a bed of nails to try out. We all did it. It was pretty cool. How is it working for you Katie

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

rtodd — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:10:39 GMT

I will try to work in rotator cuff workouts when I can to help strengthen. Maybe it is RC muscles deep in my shoulders that are sore. I will try to vary the workouts. Swimming is not easy.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:29:40 GMT

Since shnaging my stroke up I have not had all the shoulder issues, but I am having some middle shoulder blade soreness that laying on 2 tennis balls corrects in a matter of 15 minutes. Learn to do self massage especially on the back shoulders, biceps and triceps. If you feel a bump or knot in your muscles that is painful, it is a trigger point you might need to work out through accupressure or massage. I'm a sucker for anything new, so I naturally I had to get me one of these: www.spikmattan.se/index.php The first few times, especially the first five minutes it HURTS! But now I just fall asleep.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:50:30 GMT

Art therapy is very interesting. Thanks for the link I just returned from my weekly massage therapy session. My shoulders, neck, triceps okay basically my upper portion of my body were very very very sore. It is amazing how much better I feel. After reading about shoulder injuries I was kind of nervous due to how sore I am. NOPE muscular I feel better already. I started going regularly after I walked the 60 K weekend to end *** Cancer in 2005 and was sore. Then when I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. IT is one of my favorite times of the week. My therapist is into womans health and good eating so I have learned a lot. Fortress I hope that my therapy really helps. You are right training just makes you sore. Especially when you are starting out, heavier and out of shape. I dont swim Wed but I went to the gym. I know it will get better. Thanks for all the wonderful info Katie

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:17:36 GMT

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:20:15 GMT

Well I am kind of laughing as not only are my shoulders sore, my whole body is LOL. Thank goodness I am heading for a massage at lunch. I just figured I was obviously more out of shape than I thought. So I just ignore my pain and move on. When I use paddles my arms, are sore, shoulders are sore from swimming and legs from fins. Sometimes it is a good thing no one can hear us when are faces are in the water:laugh2: Please tell me this will get better Katie

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:31:31 GMT

I really don't think your shoulders should be sore all the time. You should swim every other day for awhile and/or mix in recovery only workouts. And lose the paddles.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

dorothyrde — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:15:14 GMT

Another thing to consider might be a massage therapist. A good one can tell you where your muscle imbalance is, and whether your are too tight in one place and pulling yourself out of alignment. They can suggest exercises and stretches to correct this. You should not be constantly sore, life is too short for that.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

The Fortress — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:38:14 GMT

ART is active release therapy, right? how often do you have this treatment? Is it something you can get a few times and go about your business, or do they try to suck you in for multiple monthly visits indefinitely. Not that I need it at this point, I'm just curious. Your are correct. ART = active release therapy, www.activerelease.com. I have written about this before, but for those who haven't read it: If you have a good ART/chiro doc, they will not and should not suck you in indefinitely. But it is essential that you find an excellent, highly-recommended doc. I am lucky to have one such as this. I use ART in three ways: 1. When PT failed to fix a chronic shoulder problem, I turned to ART to control/alleviate the tendonitis. I went 2x a week for a month and was significantly better. When the pain recurred months later, I went back. My ART doc didn't recommend or continue the same 2x per week regimen treatment. Rather,he sent me for an arthrogram (which my orthopod had failed to do) which revealed my compromised labrum and a slap lesion. Then, he referred me to my prolo doc. He has only given me excellent advice. He is very knowledgable and constantly attending seminars to expand his knowledge. He is also one of the ART docs attending triathlons like Kona. But you can get an idiot chiro, no doubt. 2. I got in for ART now every few weeks when my muscles get out of whack from training. ART releases the impingment and makes my shoulders and scapular area feel better very quickly. It's like a check up for me. My insurance covers 20 visits per year, so I'm well within that. 3. I use ART to supplement the prolo because I was told it would make the prolo more effective. In sum, Year one or more of masters swimming: constant pain & tendonitis, constant icing, lots of ibuprofen, 2 cortisone shots. Most of year two: no icing, no ibuprofen, some pain and tenderness, but much much better. Will hopefully continue to get better with prolo (see, www.treatingpain.com or the Aug. 7 article by Jane Brody in the NYT entitled "Injections to Kick-Start Tissue Repair." I still have to baby my shoulders and abnormal larum. I do that chiefly with fins and RC exercises now, not meds and ice. However, the proper treatment always depends on the nature of the underlying problem.

RE: Sore shoulders normal?

Former Member — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:24:12 GMT

Disclaimer: I am not qualified to diagnose anything.... But I think constant soreness could be a problem. Tired shoulders is one thing. But to me sore means pain. Muscle soreness is something that occurs when the muscles have been asked to do something they haven't before - or at an intensity above what they are used to. Things like starting a weight lifting program. Soreness is also generally temporary and goes away when the muscles get used to the new activity. Soreness also tends to work itself out during exercise. If the shoulders hurt throughout the workout - that sounds like a potential problem to me. If they are stiff in warmup but the rest of the workout is pain-free, maybe not a problem.