Shortening meets - is it possible?

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

The Fortress — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:34:19 GMT

As a non-year round swimmer, I see no problem with this ;):thhbbb:. Besides, these summer meets are supposed to be fun. Geek, if you want to check out the Montgomery County Swim League, hit up www.mcsl.org. No starting blocks. Automatic (touchpads) timing for allstars and long course only. Relay Carnival. Its all a good time! GO ROCK CREEK FINS! We're just a tad smaller than Fort's league (16 -A through O- divisions, 6 per). I could be wrong, but they may be more than one county... Fort??? We're definitely more than Fairfax County at well over 100 teams. Although I think there are probably ten teams in my town. Some in the non-nvsl country club (Colonial League) league too, which is not as competitive as the nvsl. We are at www.nvsl.nvblu.com. Quite a few T16 kids defending their home town swim team. Very tough competition by All Stars. Most of our kids, except for the older ones, still go to at least some of the summer league practices and don't just show up for the meets. Unless you're a member of Ray Benecki's group at The Fish. Then no go. Just train. Other things to consider for shortening meet time. At our A meets, we have only medley relays except for the mixed age free relay, a popular event where the fastest boy or girl in his/her age group from 10 & under to 15-18 swims together. To compensate for the lack of time in the water at A meets for developmental and other swimmers, we also do, for example, relay and other meets. We have a town IM meet and July 4 relay meet that kids participate in, as well as divisional and all star relay meets. We also have an intra-squad boys vs girls meets -- they compete based on who (boys or girls) have the most PBs. 6 & unders are key as they usually improve. Girls won this year. :cheerleader:

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

Muppet — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:15:30 GMT

But, then, it would pretty much turn into a year round (A) kids meet and a summer (B) kids meet, which would probably drive away the year rounders who are also practicing and competing with their club teams. As a non-year round swimmer, I see no problem with this ;):thhbbb:. Besides, these summer meets are supposed to be fun. Geek, if you want to check out the Montgomery County Swim League, hit up www.mcsl.org. No starting blocks. Automatic (touchpads) timing for allstars and long course only. Relay Carnival. Its all a good time! GO ROCK CREEK FINS! We're just a tad smaller than Fort's league (16 -A through O- divisions, 6 per). I could be wrong, but they may be more than one county... Fort???

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

Muppet — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:47:52 GMT

How'd your Fins do, Muppet? Cripe! I had to look it up - didn't make it out to any meets this year. Division D. T-2 in head to head, 5th at relays, 3rd at Divisionals, 3rd finish. And for all that, they move down to the top of Division F next year. Ouch. My first team coaching, I coached the minis, who are now all 11-12/13-14s, and they went from Div M&N when I was there to Division I for next year.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

osterber — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 03:03:20 GMT

As anyone who's been reading along knows, meet efficiency is a bit of a pet project for me. There are really just three basic factors that affect meet length: * Number of entries * Time between heats * Efficiency of each heat If you only have 1 person in a meet, it's a fast meet! So obviously, if you reduce the number of "splashes", you'll get a faster meet. The time between heats is critical. For most efficiency, you need to do fly-over starts. If you do that, the most important thing is to have a referee and a starter who can keep things moving. You also need a competent timing person (on the timing console) to keep up properly. At our masters championships, once we get going, we can get things going at around 5-7 seconds between heats. Remember that it takes about a full two seconds between "take your mark" and the starting signal. If you run 60 heats in a session, then every second between heats costs you a full minute on the session. 10 extra seconds is 10 minutes. But you can only run your heats so fast... you need to make sure each heat is efficient. That means people need to be seeded properly. That means (a) good seed times and (b) no empty lanes. -Rick

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:46:38 GMT

Fly-overs. We do those frequently.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:45:26 GMT

You could also use dive-over starts. Heat 2 would be on the blocks, ready to go, while Heat 1 is in the water. When Heat 1 finishes, those kids stay in the water until Heat 2 goes off the blocks. Anna Lea

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

Former Member — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:35:28 GMT

The number of swimmers plays a role in the length for sure...that difference needs to be clarified. We just had our league championship meet with about 750 kids. Those who qualify for finals each day can expect to be at the pool complex for about 12 hours by the time all is said and done.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

The Fortress — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 04:42:28 GMT

Our summer league is 6 divisions, all busting with kids. It would be nice to have the A/B thing you mention. But, then, it would pretty much turn into a year round (A) kids meet and a summer (B) kids meet, which would probably drive away the year rounders who are also practicing and competing with their club teams. My daughter goes from summer league practice to year round practice every day. Charlotte is smaller than DC so most of the year rounders know each other. Kids are limited to 3 individual events. You hate to be annoyed by it but it can wear on the nerves, although my 6 year old was quite the cute shrimp, although not as fast as one. Sounds like you need more divisions. The A/B system doesn't drive away the USA swimmers here. My kid does both, although she doesn't swim LC every day. In fact our USA Junior Olympics were on Thurs-Fri-Sun to avoid interfering with the summer league A meets on Sat am. We also have quite a few non-USA swimmers competing in the A dual meets. Because the summer league events are so sprint oriented, a good athlete who dabbles in swimming can hop in and rip off a good 50. Now, by All Stars, you're pretty much looking at the USA swimmers except for the 8 & Unders and some 10 & unders. The 6 & unders are my fav group! I never tire of their belly flops. My 6 year old loved summer swim league!

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

aquageek — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 04:35:06 GMT

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

The Fortress — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 04:26:18 GMT

Cripe! Geek - our slowest summer meets here in MoCo, MD are right about 2.5 hours. Divisionals and All stars, where they run two heats of everything, is only about another hour longer. B-Meets - those can last forever b/c of the massive number of heats (of the cute little guys swimming "the moth" during butterfly). The league employed the use the whistle starts, like USMS, about 10 years ago. Subtle change, but it did make the meets faster (the shortest ones I swam in lasted just over 2 hours). Last swimmer enters flags, whistle blows, everyone gets out and the next heat steps up. Pause for timers to write down times and announce names. Long whistle again, everyone shuts up. "Take your mark;" beep. 30-40 seconds max. How many heats are you guys running? Maybe you can have the names being announced while the heat is in the water. I'd certainly be tiffed at that 45 second talker dudette too. Hopefully she wasn't trying to hit on a married man. :dedhorse: That's similar to No. Va. We have over 100 swim teams divided into 18 divisions. Within the division, we have 6 A meets (dual meets between teams in the division) on Sat am. Top three swimmers from each team swim, so there's only one heat of each event. Each swimmer can only swim two events and 1 relay. Done in 2 hours. Monday night developmental B meets are longer, usually 3 hours. To reduce the length of the B meets, there are no relays. Only the last two B meets of the summer include the 100 IM. And if a kid places first or second at an A meet, that kid is not eligible to swim at a B meet. This latter rule works great for the USA kids, who are not developmental. Not always so great for the non-USA 10 & Unders and 8 & unders would probably improve more if they swam more. At the end of the dual meet season, there is a divisional championship for each of the 18 teams where each team send 2 swimmers per event. After all 100 teams have their divisional champs, the top 18 times go to All-Stars. That is a 5.5 hour meet. We never use fly over starts though. But then we don't use starting blocks either. 4-5 hours is way too long for a meet ... Are your teams divided into divisions? Are the swimmers limited in the number of events they can swim? Sounds like you need a good referee. Now, those prelim-final USA meets are the worst. Everyone in the family, especially the swimmer, is ready to die by the end.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

poolraat — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 04:17:24 GMT

We had one starter at an away meet who would spend 30-45 seconds after each heat talking to folks before she would get the kids on the blocks. I almost lost it. Was the starter just slow or was it the referee who was holding things up? The starter cannot start a race until the referee turns control of the race over to them.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

FlyQueen — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:55:03 GMT

The age group meet I went to this summer had fly over starts. I am not a fan but they are efficient. I didn't like them partially because I was so mis-seeded. My 200 free was a good 20 seconds faster than I can swim and I was in a middle lane so I hit the wall and kids were flying over me. My 100 fly though I was seeded 20 seconds slow so I hit the wall and climbed out and was practically in the warm down pool before the next heat went. Improving the time between heats is key. Fly overs do this. They did fly overs during prelims at Senior Nationals and at Worlds last summer. So I think that would be acceptable.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

aquageek — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:38:26 GMT

We run 70 events. The 6 and unders (shrimps) swim first and only free. After that it's the standard summer fare, medley relays, 25s up to 9/10, 50s after that age, 100 IM, free relay. We are averaging 250-270 per meet in our division. I'd be in heaven if meets were 2.5 hours. Great suggestion on the whistles. I'm gonna suggest that.

RE: Shortening meets - is it possible?

Muppet — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:31:08 GMT

Having just finished another summer league season of interminably long meets, 4-5 hours each, twice a week (and that's with no rain delays), I was wondering if anyone had good ideas for reducing the time it takes to run a meet. Some ideas I've had are: 1 - only announce event, heat and then full description of that event for the first heat. Subsequently, only announce heats. 2 - have kids on blocks when previous heat finishes 3 - drink more to make it less painful We had one starter at an away meet who would spend 30-45 seconds after each heat talking to folks before she would get the kids on the blocks. I almost lost it. In all honestly, any tips would be greatly appreciated. Cripe! Geek - our slowest summer meets here in MoCo, MD are right about 2.5 hours. Divisionals and All stars, where they run two heats of everything, is only about another hour longer. B-Meets - those can last forever b/c of the massive number of heats (of the cute little guys swimming "the moth" during butterfly). The league employed the use the whistle starts, like USMS, about 10 years ago. Subtle change, but it did make the meets faster (the shortest ones I swam in lasted just over 2 hours). Last swimmer enters flags, whistle blows, everyone gets out and the next heat steps up. Pause for timers to write down times and announce names. Long whistle again, everyone shuts up. "Take your mark;" beep. 30-40 seconds max. How many heats are you guys running? Maybe you can have the names being announced while the heat is in the water. I'd certainly be tiffed at that 45 second talker dudette too. Hopefully she wasn't trying to hit on a married man. :dedhorse: