How long is a meet?

RE: How long is a meet?

Muppet — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:24:53 GMT

No hints, Fort??? Which day is this dare swim? I'm only doing Sat. My wrist is worse so I'm taking it easy and only doing 3 events (100 fly, 200 free and 50 ***). If the wrist doesn't survive the 100 fly, I'll scratch the 50 ***. 5 days later I will be having surgery on said bad wrist. If she doesn't divulge, Alison, remember, I have her entry form ;):thhbbb::banana:

RE: How long is a meet?

swimshark — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 07:46:20 GMT

If she doesn't divulge, Alison, remember, I have her entry form ;):thhbbb::banana: Spill it Muppet!! At least which day we can enjoy this dare swim. By the way, my entry is going in the mail today :) Alison

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:58:58 GMT

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:56:19 GMT

I "know a guy" had a gal promise he could "ask for anything" if he got a certain time in a certain event that was near/at the conclusion of a certain meet. Now if that ain't motivation, I don't know what is.:banana: Pretty clever of the "gal", I'd say. She promised that he could "ask" for anything; but did she promise that she would DO as asked? :bolt:

RE: How long is a meet?

swimmieAvsFan — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:48:12 GMT

Thanks everyone! Trying to fend off the blahs on the last day is my biggest concern for this meet. I think I'll try a wake-up swim, but not too early. Like Kirk said, there's no reason to use the main pool that day. Dana at mission viejo and worlds, warming up at 6:30am pacific time was not early (to me at least ;) )! mostly cause i got used starting off each day of nationals (as a kid) by sitting at the still-locked gates of the hall of fame pool (in ft. lauderdale) at 5:45am. gotta love coaches who wanted to be the first ones in the pool (and who still are the first ones there, to this day)! :shakeshead: but i know personally i do much better on my third or later "swim" of the day at big meets. hence the 2 warm ups before my first event. i don't sleep well during meets anyway, so trying to sleep in would be pointless for me. i think the best advice is going to be stay well-hydrated and out of the sun as much as possible. and hope they've got a aerator to help cool the pool off! :cool:

RE: How long is a meet?

Muppet — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:40 GMT

Anyone have tips on how to keep the energy & motivation up for the long swim at the end of the meet?:help: I expect to be in the middle of the 1500 heats, which will start after the 800 is completed. Figuring a mid-to late afternoon splash time. I "know a guy" had a gal promise he could "ask for anything" if he got a certain time in a certain event that was near/at the conclusion of a certain meet. Now if that ain't motivation, I don't know what is.:banana: :bolt: Dana, Mollie's wake up swims aren't bad - I went on a couple with her at worlds (and watched her do hers at MV), and they seemed to work well. True, they do cut in on sleep, but I nap easily (read: fell asleep at a rock concert - in Philly, actually - courtesy the Mars Volta) and I always feel like sludge after a really long bed session anyways.

RE: How long is a meet?

Muppet — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:50:45 GMT

It hurt like heck 'cause I used Muppet's "swim all out and hope you hang on" strategy, but it happened. Sometimes, everything just clicks. Thats an AWESOME strategy!!! I love it! Did you taper for Nationals? If so, that kind of time drop isn't surprising. I have a tendency to drop about 15 seconds in my 500 free between my in-season and taper meet times! likewise in the 500. actually, I dropped 13 seconds (17 from my entry time) in my 400 free at worlds last year. things like that happen when you've only got three times off which to base your entry. those times, btw, were PBs until that point.

RE: How long is a meet?

swimshark — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:42:22 GMT

Alison: It's a big ole surprise. I'm doing it on a dare. :eek: I also have a cyber "grudge" race on an earlier event that day. I'll probably be so worn out after Saturday, I'll look like this :cane: on Sunday. And then SwimmieAvs will get her revenge in the 100 back. No hints, Fort??? Which day is this dare swim? I'm only doing Sat. My wrist is worse so I'm taking it easy and only doing 3 events (100 fly, 200 free and 50 ***). If the wrist doesn't survive the 100 fly, I'll scratch the 50 ***. 5 days later I will be having surgery on said bad wrist. Alison

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:51:30 GMT

It happened to me in the 800 free 2004 LC Nats in Savannah. I was seeded 3rd and the person in my age grup seeded 4th beat her seed time by more then 15 sec. She sandbagged majorly! In fact, in watching her team that day, they all beat their seed time by a lot. I assumed then that their coach did it. I can't remember who it was or what team but I and others were not happy with them. Alison Ok, but is it possible she just had a great swim? Although I see your point about it being a "team" thing. At SC Nats in May I entered my most recent (and best) time for the 1000 free and beat my seed time by 16 seconds. The seed time came from a meet in Feb 07, so there was really no reason to think a swim in May would be a lot faster. It hurt like heck 'cause I used Muppet's "swim all out and hope you hang on" strategy, but it happened. Sometimes, everything just clicks. Dana

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:22:21 GMT

If everyone were within 3 seconds of their seed time, I'd be thrilled!!!!! Even if everyone were within 6 seconds! -Rick Er. . . I'll stay away from meets in this zone. Need to brush up on my fortune telling skills. Reasons why I'm way off seed times include but are not limited to: Getting injured/ ill prior to the meet but post the meet entry being sent in Injury or illness during the meet Swimming 5 events per day two of which are 800 free and 200 fly - what's a good formula short of the quadratic equation to estimate how much slower you'll be in subsequent events? Deciding to taper, or rest, or keep training hard prior to the meet but after entry is sent in Family/ work distractions Meet is small resulting in 7 minutes rest between some events Due to the 7 minute respite, using next event as a chance to catch your breath - nothing like a 200 IM to catch your breath Hole in fastskin - in the crotch - use teammate's poly that is 2 sizes too large Never swam the event before in your life but coach says don't enter NT Swam the event 20 years ago Competition pool is at an unusual 86 degrees Need I go on? The longer the distance, the more these factors affect the swim. I couldn't guess who is sandbagging and who isn't. I'm not in their shoes.

RE: How long is a meet?

knelson — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:49:53 GMT

It happened to me in the 800 free 2004 LC Nats in Savannah. I was seeded 3rd and the person in my age grup seeded 4th beat her seed time by more then 15 sec. She sandbagged majorly! In an 800 I could easily see beating your previous best by 15 seconds, especially if your comparing tapered to untapered times and long course, which a lot of people swim infrequently.

RE: How long is a meet?

The Fortress — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:44:06 GMT

In NE, we've debated having "requirements" of seeding with best times. I'm against this. I understand that big meets need to be run efficiently and everyone should make a good faith effort to do their part. But this is masters swimming, not USA swimming. It doesn't need to be run like the military and doing so could discourage participation. The vagaries of life can effect masters swimmers and their seed times. I don't think we should have to write letters begging for slower times b/c of injury, illness, etc. We are all adults and should be able to write in our own seed times. The scurilous egomaniacs are very few, at least I hope. And what would be next? Punishment for NS or scratching an event? Doesn't that effect the timeline too? Banning all deck entries at local meets to speed things along? Yes, the meet will run faster, but with less participants. The last meet I attended, there was a couple significant delays from re-seeding the breaststroke events due to deck entries. This did not bother me. More people swam. I chatted with my teammates. As to the issue of of the ethics of fudging a bit on an event like imspoiled, Jeff and I have done, that's overblown. Yes, the order of events is part of the "game." But I think individual aspirations and inspiration should not be ignored either. Let's encourage people to swim and try to improve, not berate them for trying to swim more. I don't think flexibility is a bad thing. It's the inflexible attitudes that annoy me, i.e, "fins have no place in competitive swimming," "all shoulder injuries are due to poor technique," "sprinters are whimps" or "all triathletes are evil." We all have to train and swim in a way that suits our own life and ability to train.

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:41:48 GMT

This is how I like it short and fast www.youtube.com/watch The camera was turned on after I had swum for 1 min.

RE: How long is a meet?

osterber — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:37:29 GMT

You guys have really long meets up there! Yes we do. I think our NEM SCY champs was the second-largest USMS SCY meet this past season in the country, second to nationals. I think. We had around 850 swimmers this year, and we run in a single 8-lane course. When the dust settles, we end up with about 30 total hours of in-water competition (not including warmup time). -Rick

RE: How long is a meet?

The Fortress — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:34:34 GMT

Er. . . I'll stay away from meets in this zone. Need to brush up on my fortune telling skills. Reasons why I'm way off seed times include but are not limited to: Getting injured/ ill prior to the meet but post the meet entry being sent in Injury or illness during the meet Swimming 5 events per day two of which are 800 free and 200 fly - what's a good formula short of the quadratic equation to estimate how much slower you'll be in subsequent events? Deciding to taper, or rest, or keep training hard prior to the meet but after entry is sent in Family/ work distractions Meet is small resulting in 7 minutes rest between some events Due to the 7 minute respite, using next event as a chance to catch your breath - nothing like a 200 IM to catch your breath Hole in fastskin - in the crotch - use teammate's poly that is 2 sizes too large Never swam the event before in your life but coach says don't enter NT Swam the event 20 years ago Competition pool is at an unusual 86 degrees Need I go on? The longer the distance, the more these factors affect the swim. I couldn't guess who is sandbagging and who isn't. I'm not in their shoes. Yes, exactly what I've been getting at but couldn't elucidate very well. Guestimation = fortune telling unless you're a robot. We do the best we can. I hope I never have the FS problem though!

RE: How long is a meet?

some_girl — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:21:20 GMT

You guys have really long meets up there! Our zone meets are usually over by 2-3:00 pm. That's because NEM SCY is the best meet EVAR. Besides, it's big and you can swim as many events as you want, but it's three days so they aren't all on top of one another. I know for me and other folks on my team, it's the one chance every year to swim off events and swim them tapered. Plus, the team competition is, unlike nationals, reasonably close, so swimming lots does help your team. I hope you can get your hands on the Metro records this year, Rick.

RE: How long is a meet?

swimshark — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:50:45 GMT

Ok- there's NO excuse for doing something like that a Nationals! That is just sad. At a big meet like zones or Nats, one should really enter something very close to a best time (at least best for this period in life). Isn't that why they have QTs? It happened to me in the 800 free 2004 LC Nats in Savannah. I was seeded 3rd and the person in my age grup seeded 4th beat her seed time by more then 15 sec. She sandbagged majorly! In fact, in watching her team that day, they all beat their seed time by a lot. I assumed then that their coach did it. I can't remember who it was or what team but I and others were not happy with them. Alison

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:52:50 GMT

Did you taper for Nationals? If so, that kind of time drop isn't surprising. I have a tendency to drop about 15 seconds in my 500 free between my in-season and taper meet times! Yes Kirk, I tapered. I think that had a lot to do with the time drop. It also didn't hurt that it was the first event of the meet. Used a ton of nervous energy up and felt much more relaxed for the short stuff on day two. Now, the 1500 in Houston should be interesting. Last event, and looks like it will be a looooonnnnnggggg day. Taper or no, the swim could be way off the seed time... in either direction. Anyone have tips on how to keep the energy & motivation up for the long swim at the end of the meet?:help: I expect to be in the middle of the 1500 heats, which will start after the 800 is completed. Figuring a mid-to late afternoon splash time.

RE: How long is a meet?

Donna — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:16:18 GMT

I was one of those who had a major drop in my 1650 at SCY Nat's this year by over 1 minute. I didn't sandbag my time, I just made that much improvement since the last time I had swam it early in the season. And I hope to drop another minute by next years Nat's. Donna

RE: How long is a meet?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:21:18 GMT

Rick, I am deeply impressed with your dedication to our sport. Your knowledge is a delight to me. While I have never intentionally sandbagged, I didn't understand the ramifications in the big picture. Alone on the blocks, ones thoughts are about themself.

RE: How long is a meet?

The Fortress — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:49:54 GMT

If everyone were within 3 seconds of their seed time, I'd be thrilled!!!!! Even if everyone were within 6 seconds! What I'm saying is that there are a fair number who are _way_ off. 30 seconds off in 100 yards. 56 seconds off in an 800 free. It's those people that are mucking things up, and, yes, they should know better. Muck ups are bad, no doubt about it. OK, you made me feel better about the entry that will be arriving in Muppet's mailbox. The other reason you cannot always seed yourself at your fastest time -- and this is obvious -- is that times swum at national meets in fast pools with fast suits when you're fully tapered usually cannot be duplicated in local meets during training season. So it's better to make a GF guess, I would think, for everyone's benefit. Alison: It's a big ole surprise. I'm doing it on a dare. :eek: I also have a cyber "grudge" race on an earlier event that day. I'll probably be so worn out after Saturday, I'll look like this :cane: on Sunday. And then SwimmieAvs will get her revenge in the 100 back.

RE: How long is a meet?

knelson — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:55:50 GMT

If I were you I'd be sure to get plenty of sleep the night before. Don't feel compelled to get in for morning warmups. After all, by that point you'll have a few days at that pool under your belt, so you don't really need to swim in the competition pool the morning of your 1500. Just relax in the morning and show up at the pool with enough time so you know you can comfortably warmup, but not so early you end up sitting around for a couple hours. Another thing that will help is to stay out of the sun and heat over the course of the weekend as much as possible. Those hot outdoor meets can really take their toll after a couple days.

RE: How long is a meet?

swimmieAvsFan — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:45:31 GMT

Anyone have tips on how to keep the energy & motivation up for the long swim at the end of the meet?:help: I expect to be in the middle of the 1500 heats, which will start after the 800 is completed. Figuring a mid-to late afternoon splash time. disclaimer: advice is not necessarily for the mile, but more for the mid-to-late afternoon part... in 2005, LCM nats were at Mission Viejo, another single pool venue, like the woodlands. which makes for long days. every day of competition, no matter what time my first event was, i would get up and do a "wake up" swim during warm-ups, around 1000-1200m. if my event(s) that day were after noon, i would go back to the hotel and eat a good breakfast and just relax (watch tv or read) until about 2 or 3 hours before my event was scheduled to start. then i'd head back over to the pool, do another warm-up, around 800 or 1000m, and get mentally prepared for my race. even the back and forth travel was better than just sitting around, outside, all day. that worked really well for me- i had 2 masters bests, in the 200 back (which i didn't swim until about 2:30pm) and 100 free (was only a few hundredths off my best time as a kid) and a lifetime best in the 200 free (which was one of those races where everything just clicked)... i don't know if the same idea would work for the mile, but i don't see why it wouldn't! :)

RE: How long is a meet?

osterber — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:29:22 GMT

But I really could be off by 3 seconds either way. I don't even have a practice time to help guesstimate. If everyone were within 3 seconds of their seed time, I'd be thrilled!!!!! Even if everyone were within 6 seconds! What I'm saying is that there are a fair number who are _way_ off. 30 seconds off in 100 yards. 56 seconds off in an 800 free. It's those people that are mucking things up, and, yes, they should know better. Our meet will usually have around 200 heats in one day. A sway of 10 seconds per heat is 30 minutes on the day. -Rick

RE: How long is a meet?

swimshark — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:19:26 GMT

Aside from the event mentioned above, I'm swimming an event I've never swum before at zones on a lark -- and I promise I will make a GF estimate of my time. But I really could be off by 3 seconds either way. I don't even have a practice time to help guesstimate. And what would that event be? The evilstroke? Say it isn't so... Alison