Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:22:02 GMT

Hypertension, a general cardiovascular disease, can have repercussions throughout the body, including the eye. “In general, hypertension can predispose you to having a variety of eye problems,” Dr. Kim, a retinal specialist, explained. “It may be as minimal as changes in the appearances of retinal vessels that can be an indication of high blood pressure – even in patients who may not know they have high blood pressure – but changes like that don’t necessarily affect your vision.” Even in the early stages of hypertension, it is possible for ophthalmologists to observe changes in vasculature in their patients. They can see various arteriolar vessel changes, including how they cross one another, become narrower or nicked, or create infarcts in the retina. From the above linked article.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:19:49 GMT

This seems to tie into what was being discussed. www.osnsupersite.com/view.asp There might be more on HealthCentral, not sure.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 09:44:49 GMT

Just heard on Dr. Dean this afternoon that one of the most revealing things to look at for an indication of future heart disease are a person's eyes. More spcifically, the blood vessels that can be seen through the eyes. Did not catch all of the reasoning and research but thought I would throw it out there. For raising HDL, aside from exercise, one could look towards some foods such as fish, nuts, and EVOO (Olive Oil)...possibly even prepared together.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

The Fortress — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:11:55 GMT

My newest cure in a bottle is grape seed extract, since I don't drink wine. Is that the same? I thought beer helped too. No beer either? Matt: Can you clarify? Are you talking about blood vessels in the eye itself?

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

aquageek — Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:09:26 GMT

Exercise helps. You could try a glass of red wine (or grape juice) daily. My newest cure in a bottle is grape seed extract, since I don't drink wine. Is that the same?

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:50:08 GMT

Gull, Thanks for concise and seemingly good advice.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:11:45 GMT

The bottom line, from this layman's perspective, is that there are a myriad factors that go into whether person X will get heart disease. You can be doing everything right, and chances are your heart will do well too--but not always. I recently took care of a 27 year old Navy Seal with no risk factors (nonsmoker, normal cholesterol, no family history) who suffered a heart attack and required a stent. Clearly there is much we do not understand about heart disease.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:10:25 GMT

I'm having difficulty keeping HDL above 30, although tot. chol. in the 130's. Has anyone pushed HDL up significantly with vigorous exercise? Exercise helps. You could try a glass of red wine (or grape juice) daily. Niacin can raise the HDL, but many people can't tolerate the side effects (flushing).

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:58 GMT

I'm having difficulty keeping HDL above 30, although tot. chol. in the 130's. Has anyone pushed HDL up significantly with vigorous exercise?

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

jim thornton — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:58:31 GMT

I've had a pretty wretched, heart-unhealthy diet for years and the lipid profile to show for it (total chol 309 at one point; ldl over 190). The good HDL was highish, from swimming and too much booze. When I tried to eat a better diet, the total and the LDL went down a bit, but the HDL went down more, leaving me with a worse ratio than ever, not to mention a sense of life misery that comes from having to shun the foods you've grown up loving. Like most Americans, I couldn't sustain this long term. The one good think I have done for myself is consistent masters swimming over the last 23 years. Drinking probably helped the HDL stay high, but had other less beneficial effects, and so I quit this. I have undergone two coronary calcium scans for magazine articles. One doctor said he had seen very rare scores as high as 10,000. I was convinced that given my high cholesterol, I would have at least this record beat--and possibly they'd find that instead of a beating heart inside my chest cavity, a quivering bowling ball made entirely out of calcium. To my amazement, my score was zero. Five years later, in my early 50s, I had a repeat test out a UCLA Harbor. The doc figured that with age alone, I should show some modest increase in calcium. But again my score was zero. These tests are controversial, but researchers in favor of them suggest that the age-graded scoring is not just a risk factor of atherosclerosis, it's actual proof for atherosclerosis (the hardening in hardening of the arteries is calcium). The bottom line, from this layman's perspective, is that there are a myriad factors that go into whether person X with get heart disease. You can be doing everything right, and chances are you're heart will do well too--but not always. The flip side is also true. Guys like me, who eat 90 percent fatted corn syrup and preservatives, should have disease and many do. But there are also protective factors--swimming, I think is one of these, for swimming-susceptible types. I get all kinds of psychological infirmities, but so far--and knock on wood--my wretched lifestyle excesses have not obviously ruined my heart. I don't expect this to last forever, but something's protective, even if what this factor(s) is(are) are not clearly delineated.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 16:03:19 GMT

Nevertheless, relevant prognostic information obtained may be useful to initiate or intensify appropriate treatment strategies to slow the progression of existing atherosclerotic vascular disease. Current data suggest intermediate-risk patients may benefit most from further risk stratification with cardiac CT, as CAC testing is effective at identifying increased risk and in one study motivating effective behavioral changes. Randomized clinical trials will help determine if selective use of cardiac CT in the intermediate-risk patient would lead to more appropriate use of pharmacologic therapy and improved clinical outcomes. I think this is the take home message. The problem with cardiac CT is that it can lead to additional, possibly unnecessary, studies.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 11:25:35 GMT

From the medical literature - bold is mine 1: Atherosclerosis. 2007 Jun;192(2):235-42. Epub 2007 Apr 30.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../http:--linkinghub.elsevier.com-ihub-images-PubMedLink.gif Links Screening patients for subclinical atherosclerosis with non-contrast cardiac CT. Ardehali R, Nasir K, Kolandaivelu A, Budoff MJ, Blumenthal RS. Stanford Hospital, Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Stanford, CA 94305-5233, United States. rardehali@cvmed.stanford.edu Accurate risk assessment may be helpful in decreasing cardiovascular events through more appropriate targeting of preventive measures. Traditional risk assessment may be refined with the selective use of coronary artery calcium score (CACS) or other methods of subclinical atherosclerosis measurement. This article reviews information pertaining to the clinical use of CACS for assessing coronary atherosclerosis as a useful predictor of coronary artery disease (CAD) in certain population of patients. Coronary calcification is a marker of atherosclerosis that can be quantified with the use of cardiac CT and it is proportional to the extent and severity of atherosclerotic disease. The published studies demonstrate a high sensitivity of CACS for the presence of coronary artery disease but a much lower specificity for obstructive CAD depending on the magnitude of the CACS. Several large clinical trials have found clear, incremental predictive value of CACS over the Framingham risk score when used in asymptomatic patients. However, early detection of CAD by Electron Beam Tomography (EBT) screening has not convincingly demonstrated a reduction in mortality and morbidity. Nevertheless, relevant prognostic information obtained may be useful to initiate or intensify appropriate treatment strategies to slow the progression of existing atherosclerotic vascular disease. Current data suggest intermediate-risk patients may benefit most from further risk stratification with cardiac CT, as CAC testing is effective at identifying increased risk and in one study motivating effective behavioral changes. Randomized clinical trials will help determine if selective use of cardiac CT in the intermediate-risk patient would lead to more appropriate use of pharmacologic therapy and improved clinical outcomes. PMID: 17467714

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:48:29 GMT

I had an EBT scan a few years ago, which had scale which went all the way to 1000 or above. Does anyone know which is the best type of scan to quantify calcification?

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

smontanaro — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 10:57:24 GMT

With a little Googling I came across this article on about.com: heartdisease.about.com/.../EBT.htm Seems the efficacy of EBT isn't necessarily cut and dried. If you have an extremely high score or an extremely low score it seems it will correlate very well with your disease risk, but it seems there ls a large middle ground which can yield lots of false positives and false negatives. Skip Montanaro

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 10:21:45 GMT

A calcium score greater than 100 indicates an increased risk of future cardiac events (heart attacks). This information can be used to identify those individuals who should be treated more aggressively with respect to risk factor modification (statin therapy, for example). The score does seem to correlate with extent of disease, however there is not a consensus regarding how often the scans should be repeated. EBT is a type of CT scan which measures the calcium score; it is noninvasive and does not utilize IV contrast. A CT angio, on the other hand, requires an IV and the administration of contrast; it actually shows the coronary arteries and location of plaque (but not as clearly as a cardiac catheterization, despite claims to the contrary).

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:10:33 GMT

So a scan scam?

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

smontanaro — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:26:34 GMT

I had one as well and came away from it thinking that it was just a way to scam me for some money (health insurance didn't pay for it) and give life insurance companies an excuse to raise my rates. Does anyone have any information on how well these things correlate with actual risk? How frequently should they be repeated? Does your "score" ever go down? Thx, Skip Montanaro

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:08:35 GMT

If a man says something in the woods and there are no women around to hear him, is he still wrong? No a man is never wrong but he must still pretend to be listening.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:29:51 GMT

Glad you got it turned around. I have seen this so many times on various forums from people who are active and feel that they are healthy due to their diet and exercise. Such is not always the case as you have seen. These tests are so painless and inexpensive (for those with insurance at least) that it seems absurd to avoid them.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

funkyfish — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:33:46 GMT

I feel I should reply to this thread, as something heart-related has just happened with me. Two weeks ago I started my morning swim and couldn't get through my warm-up without my chest feeling tight. I'd rest and it would go away. Went to the doctor Wed. and my resting ekg was normal. Did a stress test Thu. and the results came back with an abnormality. Last Friday I was in for angioscopy and eventually a stent in one vessel. Thing is, I'm 38, never smoked or drank, blood pressure has been normal ever since it's been measured. Cholesterol was a little high 5 yrs ago (214 total) but had steadily dropped to 154 last winter. Long story short, don't ignore or "tough out" unusual pains. Incidentally, I feel fine now and hope to resume full-blown swimming in a week or so. Worse thing about this is now I have to eat right, so here's a banana :banana: But I think we need a dancing apple as well.

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Former Member — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:04:53 GMT

Spread the word my friends. I know there are swimmers looking good and feeling great but their plumbing may not be. Thanks and good luck in all your endeavors. Coach T

RE: Looking and feeling fit, don't be fooled

Muppet — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:09:25 GMT

Tom, Kudos to you for following through with the Doc's orders! That's one hell of a wake-up call, but Congratulations on lowering your #s, and keep on truckin, brother! :banana: