Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:27:37 GMT

Susan, these workouts are insanity and garbage yards. Nothing is accomplished doing piles of yards just for the sake of doing them. Also, it could be harmful to the kids. This coach or temp coach needs a pink slip fast.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:29:10 GMT

Sounds like this coach has no swim practice creativity. Almost like he gives the long sets to just fill the block of time. Is he on deck reading a paper or something while you swim these long sets or actually coaching and looking at peoples strokes? Do not see how you can hold proper stroke technique for that long of a set. To me it seems like a lot of garbage yards. If I had a practice that was all breaststroke I would move over to the noodler lanes and do their workout instead. Good luck with that coach and hope it all works out for ya. greg

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:11:05 GMT

Time to have a serious sit down with the coaches of this team.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

swimshark — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:11:05 GMT

Those poor kids. They don't know fun in a workout. If my age group coach wanted us to focus on a stroke, we'd still do something like an IM in the middle. So say 8x200, odds would be stroke and evens IM (this is what we did today). I, like you, would get bored with all backstroke. Alison

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

dorothyrde — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:18:35 GMT

Two main coaches are still awol so I wasn't able to ask either of them what the deal is. I did ask one of the kids if it is common for there to be "one stroke" workouts and she said that usually the workouts include other strokes. Mmmmm, I'm not holding my breath as I'm on my 3rd week and I've yet to see a freestyle set. Tonight was backstroke night - Warm Up 6x400 backstroke Main Set 3x1000 backstroke pull, 2 min rest, double arm every 100 yards. That was as far as any of the kids got, but the rest of the workout was entirely back stroke up to 6100 yards. I noticed one or two of the kids switched to free every once in awhile, but not enough, in my opinion. I was hoping I would start a trend, but I think the kids are afraid to question authority. What ends up happening is the kids start goofing off because they are tired and bored. Here is what I did: 12x200, alternating back/free 1x200 back pull 2x400 free pull 1x200 back pull 400 free swim 10x100 free, 10 sec. rest Backstroke is definitely my weak stroke and too much makes my right elbow (weak arm, I'm left handed) hurt. Does anyone else ever experience "backstroke elbow" from too much backstroke? Oh goodness Susan. This is why kids leave swimming. These poor kids don't even realize it can be better and fun.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:21:55 GMT

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

The Fortress — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:55:42 GMT

Two main coaches are still awol so I wasn't able to ask either of them what the deal is. I did ask one of the kids if it is common for there to be "one stroke" workouts and she said that usually the workouts include other strokes. Mmmmm, I'm not holding my breath as I'm on my 3rd week and I've yet to see a freestyle set. Tonight was backstroke night - Warm Up 6x400 backstroke Main Set 3x1000 backstroke pull, 2 min rest, double arm every 100 yards. Both the breaststroke and backstroke workouts are totally insane. They don't seem especially intended to accomplish anything except injury. Even if you have a particular stroke focus for that night, which is fine, you still have to mix up the strokes/drills, etc. a bit. Warm up 6 x 400 back?!?! Stupid! Keep doing your own thing. That workout is really messed up. I would never do it. Aside from the injury/lack of utility/effectiveness factora, I would die of boredom ... :snore: :shakeshead: (Of course, kids don't have as much freedom of expression as masters swimmers.) My kid's USA-S team never does workouts like that from what I have heard/seen. My masters team gets some workouts from a college coach. We never do that crap. And I've never done a workout with no freestyle whatsoever ...

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:58:25 GMT

Ouch my body hurts thinking of this...I don't have a coach but I rely on workouts posted on this site and others, I dont think I have ever seen something like this and I know I wouldnt have down loaded it if I had. I am glad you listened to your body and switched to free, :applaud: but I really worry about the kids as typically they won't question an adults directions. Maybe you'll be a role model of sanity.... I hope you post the coaches response to your questions. Hand in there.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:38:40 GMT

Susan- I'm sorry you're having such an experience with the age group team. That practice sounds grueling! I never would have made it through the warm-up, and honestly, I don't think I would have tried. It is not unusual for our age group workouts to be "themed", that is *** stroke week, fly week, IM week, etc. However, we NEVER do any one stroke exclusively. Most workouts incorporate freestyle and IMs along with the stroke of the day. The assigned stroke is also broken down into drill and kick sets, so we are not swimming 100% stroke on different intervals. I would certainly question the coaches motivation. It would be more effective to do 1500 in *** stroke drills as warm-up (30 x 50 done skul, 1 pull 3 kick, all pull, BS kick on back, repeat) than to try & swim 1500 straight. Sometimes, when the coach who writes the practice is not there to implement it, we do read it wrong. Maybe the assistant in charge didn't read the coaches instructions & explain the sets properly. Or maybe, these coaches need a wake-up call.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:54:03 GMT

I was a breastroker as a teenager, competed in international competition for 7 years as a Breastroker & I NEVER did a workout like that & neither did I need too! (I may have done the 20 x 100 plus one other Brs set + Brs Kick set, but that's about it... In my opinion that workout was insanity! :sad: Like everyone else has said......what about those kids knees!! :notworking:

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:22 GMT

Susan, I read this thread a day or so ago but didn't respond due to shock. I guess I am not going to be very kind about the kinds of workouts this coach posts. Even if a coach isn't sure what to post for a typical breastroke workout (which I find to be an excuse for incompetence), he's sadistic. He/she has no business developing workouts that will overuse people's bodies unless he/she knows they won't do the workouts anyway. And then if that is the case, what is the point in having a "coach" of this low caliber? Many people don't know any better and will try to complete something that could be beyond their means because they trust a coach with the title "coach". I'm sorry, the word idiot comes to mind on this one. Glad you are a smart cookie and will ask those very important questions on this one.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 10:15:59 GMT

Actually, the Head Coach of the team and the Assistant Coach in charge of the evening workout were gone all week. The workouts were posted and one of the other Assistant Coach's was there basically to open and close the pool. She showed me where the workout was posted and I said "Wow, that's alot of *** stroke!" and she just smiled and walked off. The kids were grumbling and I asked one of the kids in the lane next to me if they had ever swam so much *** stroke in one workout and he said yes, so I fear this may be common. I'm going to practice tomorrow evening and I plan on asking both the Head Coach and the Assist Coach what they either of them are thinking. We had a "back stroke" workout and I'm not strong enough (and my sinuses can't handle) backstroke flip turns on every leg, so often times I will roll over on my stomach as if I'm going to flip but I then I don't. The only comment the Assist. Coach made to me was that if I was swimming competitively, I would be disqualified. The Head Coach is in charge of the a.m. workouts and I the ones I saw posted last week were a normal workout. The evening workouts are supposed to be supplemental to the a.m. workouts. But I'm with everyone else, when I swam in the 70s, we swam 2x daily, about 12K, but we never had a 1500 *** stroke warmup!

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Michael Heather — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:56:16 GMT

Back in the stone age (1970s), Mark Shubert would dedicate an entire week to each stroke at the beginning of the season. All of his swimmers would end up being excellent 400 IM swimmers, at least. I do not know if he ever did one stroke per workout exclusively, but would guess not. It appears that your coach is trying to take a page out of this training manual, but has lost something in the translation. I will not agree that this is "stupid," but it is certainly an odd training method. Did the coach give stroke technique critique to everyone for the whole workout? If not, then the point was lost during warmup. If so, he (she) was trying to hardwire muscle memory in one session for the stroke. Not a likely outcome, judging by your reaction.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

dorothyrde — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:51:30 GMT

We had a "back stroke" workout and I'm not strong enough (and my sinuses can't handle) backstroke flip turns on every leg, so often times I will roll over on my stomach as if I'm going to flip but I then I don't. The only comment the Assist. Coach made to me was that if I was swimming competitively, I would be disqualified. You would not be disqualified if your motion was continuous. You can roll as if to flip, and then open up the turn. Perhaps the coach needs to read the rules.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:12:14 GMT

Good to know that this type of workout isn't some new fandangled way of building strength. I treated myself to a massage yesterday and the massage therapist commented that my achilles was really tight. I was thinking that is because after all that breaststroke, my feet are automatically getting ready to do a *** stroke kick every time I'm on my stomach and I lift a leg! :lmao:

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:13:05 GMT

You thought wisely when you switched to freestyle . . . you focused on good form as long as you could, then recognized specific fatigue, kept your heartrate up to get a great workout, etc. you did the right thing for you. I'm all about customizing workouts . . . I encourage everyone to do what feels right for them - as long as they keep moving! I feel sorry for the poor little darlings . . .

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

swimshark — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 06:31:36 GMT

Susan, I practice with an age group team and have never done an odd workout like that. It does sound like the coach is killing the kids with over use, not working on technique and strength. I'd hate to see their knees in a few years. There is such a thing as concentrating on one stroke for a main set, but not to whole practice. I like the idea of asking her in an inqusitive way, what the purpose of the workout like that is. I know I ask my coach when it's a drill. Then I can work on what he wants us to work on. Good luck and I hope the age group thing works out. I know it has for me and I love it (wearing the team's t-shirt as I type this). Alison

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:11:04 GMT

At best - sounds crazy At worst - sounds like a formula for burnout and/ or injury for any age Did this coach every compete him/ herself?

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

knelson — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:21:59 GMT

It seems a little extreme. Maybe this is sort of a special week where each day is dedicated to one stroke? I can't believe a coach would do this kind of workout on a regular basis.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Muppet — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:54:16 GMT

Wonder if it's worth asking the coach (in a friendly way) about this... something like, "This is new to me, having all *** (or all fly or all back). I'd be interested in finding out more about your goals in practices like this." (Imagine you're writing an article about the coach and her team and you just want the information in an objective way.) You know Fishy, that is a GREAT idea. :applaud: One of our coaches over the last 2.5 years was very good about explaining why he was giving us what he was giving us, and it really helped out, as we swam how everything exactly how he wanted us to swim. With the extra communication, there was never any doubt when to go fast, pace, easy, sprint. Any time something looked wrong, we got a good reason to do it. An example - instead of the 10x100 1:20 we did yesterday (my call), we'd do them on 2:00, start at a moderate pace (ie 1:12) and go one second faster each subsequent 100, working down to a 1:02 in my case. Why? Work on establishing a pace and building up to fast swimming. And most importantly, working on how to understand and control your body, working with its reaction to the pain at the end in order to keep the 1 second drops coming. The alternative? Aimless attempts at sprinting, probably death by lactic acid at ~#7 or 8. And having inconsistent finish times.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Allen Stark — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:32:15 GMT

I am a breaststroker and coaches don't always know what to do for breaststroke.Once as an age grouper I had a"see how far you can swim breaststroke in an hour" workout. Another one was 90X50 on the minute breaststroke.I remember these from 40+ yr. ago because even then I knew they were STUPID. What you got is a great workout to give the whole team knee problems.I think it is hard to come up with interesting workouts every day,so I guess some coaches think this kind of a workout will be different.:doh:

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

Former Member — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:18:56 GMT

Thanks everyone. Yes, I'm still baffled, but I plan on asking the rationale behind these types of workouts as well as "pulling a master" and modify when necessary. I already paid through July 27th, so I'm hesitant to stop going. Plus, I'm loving the pool temp and no noodlers to deal with!

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

aquageek — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:01:44 GMT

We had a lady fill in for our coach 2 years ago and gave us something like this and we still talk to this day about just what a horrible workout it was. I'd get myself and my kids far away from this nut!

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

dorothyrde — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 08:15:31 GMT

Sounds boring, so the kids get bored, sounds a bit dangerous to never work any other muscles during the work-out, 1500 of ***, come on. I am not liking what I am hearing about this coach and low numbers of kids for this team is telling you something. Most good USA coaches I know mix things up a bit with the exception of all freestyle work-outs. Freestyle is used as the training conditioning stroke. I know my son used to dread the all freestyle work-outs because as an IMer, he found them boring, but he did them.

RE: Need your opinion Re: Coach's Workouts

FindingMyInnerFish — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:45:27 GMT

Having only started doing swim practices a couple years ago, I don't have a lot of experience to call on, but all breaststroke does sound odd. Of course this comes from someone who's happy with an all-freestyle workout.... But even so, the workouts I've experienced seem to have free as the primary stroke w/ the others mixed in, as IM sets and such. I've never worked out with an age group team, but I've glanced at some of their practices after finishing my workouts--and they pretty much seem to follow the same pattern, except w/ more yards and faster speed. Wonder if it's worth asking the coach (in a friendly way) about this... something like, "This is new to me, having all *** (or all fly or all back). I'd be interested in finding out more about your goals in practices like this." (Imagine you're writing an article about the coach and her team and you just want the information in an objective way.) Actually, I'd be curious about the coach's rationale. You could tell her inquiring minds want to know. ;)