Distance Backstroke

RE: Distance Backstroke

Muppet — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:57:54 GMT

Muppet: Are you thinking of taking down Mollie in the 200? Tom, I have taken down Mollie in the 200. Unfortunately, its not a regular occurance. Before we knew each other, my first 200 LCM back ever, she came from behind in the next lane to beat me handily in the last 25M. :dedhorse: After she and I had met, we figured out she was "that effen girl" who smoked me the summer prior, and decided to place a wager for the same meet to see if I could get revenge. Loser pays for the date at winner's choice of location. Jeff: 2:37.79 Mollie: 2:38.41. :kiss1: I thought it was a clever way of securing a 3rd date :thhbbb:

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:32:20 GMT

Muppet: Are you thinking of taking down Mollie in the 200?

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:29:19 GMT

Sam: What's the conventional wisdom- does doing long yardage (eg greater than 300) backstroke actually help your strength/endurance, or is this just another way of mixing it up and keeping things interesting? I'm assuming that over the long distance you can keep your technique solid. Anyone else have an opinion? A little of both. I just get way bored doing frestyle. I find trying to keep up with my lanemates on my back is more fun. I do try and hold stroke as best I can. Swam a 200 LCM for time last week trying to negative split. Didn't quite do it, was out in 1:14 back in 1:14 so I was pretty happy about that. Would love to be in the low 2:20 range at the end of practice for a "normal" 200 Back. For some goofy reason, I find my stroke gets stronger the longer I go.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Muppet — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:11:33 GMT

I swam a 200y back for time as part of practice tonight. 2:24. I have no idea how to swim that thing. From my glance at the clock before my turn, I suspect I was out in ~1:10-11ish. The blue muppet destroyed me.:agree: Its not getting me down, though, cause I feel like I can learn how to swim it properly. Its a very far-fetched challenge.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:21:06 GMT

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:53:42 GMT

Quick - I should have mentioned (and will go edit that now) that I was doing everything freestyle, but thanks!!!:cheerleader: That is certainly a great 2back time, eh? Maybe I'll be doing that after I move to Texas and start training with Ande and Tyler. It's easy...just roll over. The ceiling at our pool is much more interesting than the bottom of the pool...with all those hair tumble weeds. And you can breathe all you like when backstroking!

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:49:15 GMT

(I also don't SDK because I suck at it) I am a much better long course swimmer because it is more swimming and less turns. Personally I am banking on this (SDK's) to unlock the potential for faster swimming. I get a bit winded...but my feeling is that the body can adapt to a certain work condition...the more it gets used to doing something. The kids I've seen and coached at USA swim meets are literally kicking half of the pool... and coming in on some ridiculously fast times. Monkey see...monkey do. By the way...that is some seriously fast swimming...especially for a guy with three kids in tow. Finding time to train ...let alone attend meets can be really tough in my opinion.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:18:31 GMT

...Sam you must be a super fast backstroker. I tried that set today and wound up doing a 300 straight at the end. (My 200 time at the moment is 2:05...where it used to be in the 1:55 range 20 years ago.) Hoping to get close to there again in the next few seasons... "Super fast" is relative. The last meet I swam in, which was in 2003, I went a 1:57 for my 200 and :55 for my 100. I can go about 2:05 in practice now. I am not doing Ande's times, but I am also not training as regularly as he does. (I also don't SDK because I suck at it) I am a much better long course swimmer because it is more swimming and less turns. Did a 400 Back for time yesterday and went 5:01 LCM. Was pretty happy with that considering it was a set of 5 X 400 on 6:00 desc 1-5. I guess I can hold my own, but I don't know how I rank anymore.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:55:36 GMT

To answer your question...the interval on Muppet's set is great for end of the year tapering. As the rest increases ...the effort level should be near maximal. It's basically a formula to improve speed...aka an intensity set. The opposite of this would be a set where the rest is reduced. That kind of overloading is a density set. Usually done in the earlier part of a season. ...Sam you must be a super fast backstroker. I tried that set today and wound up doing a 300 straight at the end. (My 200 time at the moment is 2:05...where it used to be in the 1:55 range 20 years ago.) Hoping to get close to there again in the next few seasons... Muppet: 1:53 ....200 back. Very impressive. And Congrats Mollie on a great swim. It's a nice feeling to be as fast as your former self.

RE: Distance Backstroke

smontanaro — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:37:31 GMT

intensity set. ... vs. ... density set.... Thanks. I'll keep that in mind for the future. Skip

RE: Distance Backstroke

Muppet — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:13:38 GMT

Muppet: 1:53 ....200 back. Very impressive. Quick - I should have mentioned (and will go edit that now) that I was doing everything freestyle, but thanks!!!:cheerleader: That is certainly a great 2back time, eh? Maybe I'll be doing that after I move to Texas and start training with Ande and Tyler.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Muppet — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:24:30 GMT

Skip, you are reading that correctly. We were testing our ability to sprint - in the beginning, over a long period of time; and at the end, over a short distance. It also gave us a feel for how well we were progressing throughout the spring. Ideally, come taper time, we were to be going slightly faster than this for 100s, and for the super ideal, holding this same speed for 200s. For Mollie, this worked out great, as her 2:11 (31,33,33,33 splits) work out to about the :49 range she was holding in this set. I finished up right about :42 (free) - which is a 1:52; and I was at 1:53 in the 200 free at nationals.

RE: Distance Backstroke

smontanaro — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:18:24 GMT

We started at 12x75 on 1:05, and dropped two repeats off and added 5 seconds to the interval each week. Muppet, I don't understand this. Is there a typo? If I read this correctly: Week 1 12x75 @ 1:05 Week 2 10x75 @ 1:10 Week 3 8x75 @ 1:15 ... What was that testing? Thx, Skip Montanaro

RE: Distance Backstroke

swimmieAvsFan — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:48:40 GMT

Tom, my team did a test set every other wednesday in the three months leading up to SCY Nationals. We started at 12x75 on 1:05, and dropped two repeats off and added 5 seconds to the interval each week. Mollie (SwimmieAvsFan) did hers all backstroke to train for her fave event, the 200 back. I can't recall what times she was holding for those, but her nationals 200 back was I believe a USMS best, and lifetime #2. I'll be sure to encourage her to weigh in on this topic - though most of her training partners (ie me) train for mid-distance free, she will tend to tinker with things slighty to fit in her backstroke... figured i'd weigh in, since i am a distance backstroker and all ;) so, the test set muppet refered to, this is how i swam it: 12x75- held :51s/:52s 10x75- held :50s/:51s 8x75- held :50s/:49s 6x75- held :49s/:48s 4x75- held :48s i was holding low 2:17s for the season, and tapered down to a high 2:11 at nationals (i was a low 2:11 as an age grouper). so i really feel like this set helped, a lot. mostly, it got me comfortable with being uncomfortable (cause trust me, even with 10-15 seconds rest on the first 2 times through, it was a painful set). and it also gave me and my coach plenty of time to figure out a smart race strategy (i tended to go out too easy and with too much speed from the legs, this set showed me to set my tempo with my arms and to get out after the race from the start instead of waiting for the 100 to get moving). other times, if the guys are doing a longer freestyle set (like ladders starting or ending on 400 or 500 free), i'll do the shorter stuff free and the long stuff i'll chop off a 50 or 100 and do it back. so if the given set is: 100 200 300 400 500 all on a 1:15 base, i'll do the 100 and 200 free, then do a 250, 350, and 400 back, still on the 1:15 base. i could make the full 300, 400, 500 on 1:15, but my stroke would start to fall apart, so i thought it was more important to cut off a little of the repeat and keep my stroke together. i started doing this not so much to train for the 200 back, but because i have occasionally cranky shoulders, and doing backstroke makes them much happier :) it ended up having the side benefit of really helping my 200 back, so i continue to do it. not all the time, but frequently.

RE: Distance Backstroke

smontanaro — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:51:05 GMT

"Super fast" is relative. The last meet I swam in, which was in 2003, I went a 1:57 for my 200 and :55 for my 100. Indeed. I would be happy to go under 1:20 for a 100... :frustrated: Hence my focus on postal swims... :) Skip Montanaro

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:20:23 GMT

These are some great ideas. If you saw my question for Ande, you probably saw his response: doing 800 back just 'cause his lanemates were doing 800 free. He's an animal. Not to brag, but I do the same thing. I just get bored doing freestyle and I seem to work myself harder when I am not bored...

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:58:07 GMT

These are some great ideas. If you saw my question for Ande, you probably saw his response: doing 800 back just 'cause his lanemates were doing 800 free. He's an animal.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:00:12 GMT

Thanks for posting that workout Sam. I'm going to try it this week. The 1:10's may be touch and go. That's an excellent 200 race strategy by the way. A typical set of 100's that I do once a week... 1 on 1:30 1 on 1:20 1 on 1:15 repeated 8 times. For 200 training... 1 x 200 on 2:40 2 x 100 on 1:20 4 x 50 on :40 repeated 4 times

RE: Distance Backstroke

Muppet — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 05:27:52 GMT

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:27:35 GMT

I am one to spend a lot of time on my back. Literally and figuratively that is. When I am training for a specific competition, which has been a while, I will do repeats of 100s or 200s to get 200 Back stamina. I like to do sets descending times and/or intervals. I feel if I can finish strong, then I am going to have a good swim. The only way I get the confidence to finish strong, is to continue to do descend/negative split swims. And no, negative split does not mean loaf the first half and sprint the second. I try to do a 3 second drop at most per 100 of distance. A good set that I like to do is: 18 X 100 3 on 1:30 3 on 1:20 3 on 1:30 3 on 1:15 3 on 1:30 3 on 1:10 (Descend each set of 3) This is short course, I adjust by 10% for long course, you can adjust for level, course type. I feel if I can descend the last 3 on 1:10 interval I am in good shape for a 200 Backstroke. One other thing, the way I like to swim a 200 Backstroke is the following: 1. Use the start and turn to make a VERY STRONG first 50 2. SPRINT (and I mean SPRINT) the middle 100 3. Rely on my confidence of training to finish the last 50 as best as I can. This may sound odd, but the more you practice this, the more sense it will make.

RE: Distance Backstroke

Former Member — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:24:57 GMT

Hi Tom, If the goal is to swim a better 200...then interval training may help over the distance work. Personally I found that swimming longer distances will teach you to swim with energy conservation in mind rather than speed. True your stamina will improve...but working 200 repeats at a hard pace may outweigh the distance training. Just my 2 cents. Depending on your workout speed...set the work interval to get about 15 seconds rest on the 200's...and ten seconds on the 100's. A good yardage total should add up to around 2,000 on any given interval set. ie...10 x 200 ...or 20 x 100