Is Terry Laughlin Right?

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:45:15 GMT

Boathead loosening up seems OK with me, I just don't like to see those pretzel like stretches.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:57:04 GMT

From what I've read, you don't want to stretch cold muscles. I've also read that stretching immediately before exercise can (transiently) reduce muscle strength. When I played football (soccer) sensible and with some fitness, we'd arrive jog gently around the pitch stretch a bit then jog again stretch off a bit more then knock the ball about for a bit. THen you'd take a 5-10 minute talk, sort out positions, who was buying the beer, etc then get on the field and play. Some guys never rested up before kick off...I never got that. Stretching should be the easing of muscles into action. I don't really stretch much with swimming...I do it in the water...50..stretch...50 stretch etc and increase the intesity of the 50...not had too much trouble...RC nigglies is about it. Just curious how you consider this process Gull, think that's right (well obcioulsy right depends othe individual).

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:52:05 GMT

From what I've read, you don't want to stretch cold muscles. I've also read that stretching immediately before exercise can (transiently) reduce muscle strength.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:48:31 GMT

Need a new car? Buy yourself a beater and then drive to work in DC. All the vibrating and shaking, etc., you may as well have just sat in a massage chair. There's your daily massage :bouncing::notworking: And that's why one takes the Metro whenever possible. Plus, it is a heck of a lot faster than driving down Mass, Wisconsin, Penn Ave., M or K streets.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:30:04 GMT

I had massages 5 days a week by Angel when I was in Mexico.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:22:31 GMT

I Is anyone out there getting daily massages? Yeah right. I wish! Will anyone volunteer to give me one on a daily basis? After reading the previous post, I do think stretching is a good idea but only after a good workout. I have found that easy stretching, not trying to force the muscles but rather gently stretch them a little farther each time seems to help. Anyone got any good ones for the upper back area(the area between the shoulder blades?

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

The Fortress — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:23:31 GMT

I wish! Will anyone volunteer to give me one on a daily basis? After reading the previous post, I do think stretching is a good idea but only after a good workout. I have found that easy stretching, not trying to force the muscles but rather gently stretch them a little farther each time seems to help. Anyone got any good ones for the upper back area(the area between the shoulder blades? That's where I most need to stretch too. Try sitting on the floor with your knees bent. Tuck your arms together under your knees grabbing your elbows. Push your back back in a hunch like position. Hold. Repeat. Beg for a massage. I think massages and ART work the best, better than regular stretching, for tight and impinged muscles. But you'd have to be Bill Gates to get them 24/7. Or George apparently.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

boathead — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:12:32 GMT

This is a good thread. Thinking about stretching, etc before swimming, I think, yes, we want to be a little warm before stretching, but we also want to stretch before we get warm, too. Contradictory? Not really. We need to do some moving of our shoulders before we start stretching or swimming. Swinging the arms lightly around, stuff like that. But we need to get our whole body going. I like to lay on my back with hands at sides and bring my one arm up over my head while I bring up the opposite knee. Then I do the other arm and knee, and go back and forth 20-40 times: easy, warms the shoulders and legs, gets the muscles on both sides of the spine going opposite directions, gets me ready for spinal twisting, also light, turning my knees from side to side. Another part of warmup involves "firing" some muscle groups you are going to be using in your main workout. So I usually do some core strengthening, again not to hard. Finally I get to stretching extremities. By then, everything is pretty warm, but still, BE CAREFUL. You want to stretch your muscles, not pull your tendons or joints out of place. The RC exercises mentioned earlier (page 2 by Gull?) are terrific. But I have trouble getting to them regularly enough. And before I found them, I found an in-water warmup routine that really is very similar. It was an article called (I hope I get this right) "dips, whirlpools, and shoulder thangs" by Emmett Hines of Houston H2O. I found it through this forum, and it has been terrific getting me ready for workouts. Ease into everything hard with something less hard. Don't be in a rush. And remember that the perfect form you have at the beginning of your workout will not be so perfect when you are tired at the end.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Muppet — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:33:12 GMT

Is anyone out there getting daily massages? Need a new car? Buy yourself a beater and then drive to work in DC. All the vibrating and shaking, etc., you may as well have just sat in a massage chair. There's your daily massage :bouncing::notworking:

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

The Fortress — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:13:44 GMT

Boathead loosening up seems OK with me, I just don't like to see those pretzel like stretches. I don't do pretzel stretches either. I think we would all be fine if we did our RC and scapular strengthening exercises, stretched a bit if we felt like it and had massages like Dara Torres every day. Then we wouldn't have tight muscles and we'll have happy shoulders. :bouncing: Is anyone out there getting daily massages? Yeah right. Is this a new smilie? :kiss1: I think only Blackbeard and SwimmieAvs can use this one.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:16:39 GMT

A little more pressure is applied as the hand moves to the catch, then give it the works. Precisely. The catch sets up the arm for getting the elbow into a high position... ...when the arm is bending...it's time "to give it the works".

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:08:54 GMT

The greatest force is applied from the catch on. The hand as it enters the water the force is minimal. A little more pressure is applied as the hand moves to the catch, then give it the works.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:58:26 GMT

Many swimmers tend to apply force too early in their stroke. If you were to stand facing a wall with your arm fully straightened out and overhead...try pushing your palm against the wall. You can feel the stress on the shoulder right away. Same thing in the pool. Waiting for the arm to get a little further along in the stroke before pulling back can reduce this kind of strain.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

The Fortress — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:58:15 GMT

After all my years being involved in swimming, both as a swimmer and a coach I would have to say that injuries are more the norm than not. There are many more causes of injury than there are methods of prevention. I'm tired of people assuming that you can stay injury free. Enjoy the time when you are injury free!!!! Well, I don't think anyone on this thread was really assuming we could stay injury free. (Anyone can feel free to correct me.) Myself, I've never really been injury free as a masters swimmer. I just sort of "manage" the shoulder in various ways. Most athletes suffer injuries at some point. Maybe Terry thinks you can stay injury free. He's on record as saying his own age group swimmers are. But I think even he would concede that physiology, age or even dumb luck plays a role. I believe he is rehabing a separated shoulder at the moment. It's just be nice if kids could learn some basic habits like rotator cuff strengthening to try to keep them on course or prevent what MIGHT be preventable.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Dennis Tesch — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:51:29 GMT

I tried to post this early???? After all my years being involved in swimming, both as a swimmer and a coach I would have to say that injuries are more the norm than not. There are many more causes of injury than there are methods of prevention. I'm tired of people assuming that you can stay injury free. Enjoy the time when you are injury free!!!!

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:13:08 GMT

One of the 'prescriptions' I was given for shoulder problems as a 20yr old breastroker was to do some dogpaddle, I use this whenever I have done a fair bit of mileage or pull only work. Seems to keep my RC in check nowadays :agree: Go gently boys & girls, this is my first post from down under :p

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Kevin in MD — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:45:51 GMT

The one expert I like best says never stretch, use proper warm up and cool down. I do gentle stretch myself for my calf muscles. That is it. George, there was an excellent article in Swim magazine a few years ago, in fact the best one I ever read on the subject. It pointed out that the stretches that swimmers do, the common ones we see guys doing on the deck are actually bad for your rotator cuffs and induce lexity in the wrong places. Having been through the rehab issues, I think many of our injuries are the result of laxity in the joint. In that regard, I'd say your friend is absolutely right, best for us not to stretch. I suppose if we got a good physio exam and they could see exactly where we were tight or loose we could make sure to only stretc certain places, but absent that no stretching can be a good way to go. In my own case, when my shoulders act up, I need to do shoulder strengthening, not stretching.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:07:42 GMT

When I used to stretch religiously before practice I had sore shoulders. ......And there I was, further stretching the areas that were already loose ..........I highly believe in stretching the legs though..... This has been my experience too. This exchange beween all the contributors is wonderful! I've been suffering a hurting shoulder since I started swimming intensively. I suffered after I didn't warm-up before strong morning swims (for me that is 2,500 m) as well as after lots of stretching before Masters in the evening (always around 2200 M). Now following George's advice and that of others of warming up slowly and stretching/dryland exercise separately I am doing much better AND I am able to increase the daily distances I'm able to swim :banana: to prepare for OW races this summer.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:23:44 GMT

Angel the best massage in Melaque. His name was Angel, 350 pesos for one hour. Flat hot rocks, aroma therpy, facial, the whole works, all with natures medley music background. This may be better here??? Just came accross this from our local physio www.myphysio.ca/education.php Who's Angel?

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:36:56 GMT

When I was a kid swimming competitively we swam summer league, played soccer in the fall, basketball in winter, softball in spring. (Or some combo of other sports depending on the kid). When I was about 15 a lot of my summer swim mates started swim training year round and instead of us all swimming around the same times and trading off places, they really surpassed me. I just wasn't going to swim year round 'cause I liked all the other sports, too. I got sick of the competition part by age 17 'cause the fun was gone and for them it was all about winning, not comraderie and shared experiences with prizes as occasional treats, so that was my last summer competing. There seems to be a lower and lower age where professional atheletes peak. Kids have to do so much to be competitive so early. Many sports are more and more physically demanding with more injuries. In Highland Dancing the kids are suffering all kinds of knee problems, bone and ligament issues and even torn achilles. Your highland dancing career is over by age 20 for most. So anyway, I think we were doing a lot of cross training as kids before training for one sport year round came into vogue.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:54:56 GMT

Honestly I think you're way off base. I'll bet you statistically professional athletes are able to extend their careers longer now than ever before. Not to say there isn't still room for improvement. Certainly in swimming there are an increasing number of athletes able to compete post-college, although I think this has a lot more to do with financial issues as opposed to injuries. Well look at women's figure skating and gymnastics. Yes there are professional careers after the olympics, but the physical costs of getting there in terms of injuries and moving away from home to train every day year round to be an olympic hopeful, let alone be a gold medalist. Of course there are exceptions in every sport. Orthepedic surgery has come a long way as well as physical therapy which helps extend careers after injuries as well as learn to be more effecient to avoid repeat injuries. Swimming with proper technique even year round probably has less of this going on anyway.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:43:51 GMT

I think I had great coaching back in the 60s. Both George Haines and Don Easterling were NOT proponents of stretching before exercise. We would do a very ez 400 or so and then lightly stretch in the water before main sets, but not that much stretching. I'm with george on this one, and I have started stretching my calf muscles because they are too tight and I cramp up at about mile number 3 and it is helping.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

Former Member — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:33:59 GMT

Do you really think the children of today in general, are fit enough to take part in any physical endeavor. Most suffer from chronic couch potato syndrome.

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

swimr4life — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:45:48 GMT

My personal opinion (and I am not an orthopedist) is that all swimmers should be doing RC exercises. I believe you need to specifically target these small muscles to keep them (and the shoulder joint) strong and healthy. And I suspect that a healthy shoulder will tolerate overuse and less than perfect technique (like mine) better. AMEN! I agree wholeheartedly!

RE: Is Terry Laughlin Right?

knelson — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:28:06 GMT

Well look at women's figure skating and gymnastics. I believe both these sports have imposed minimum age requirements for major competitions in the last few years, so at least they're moving in the right direction.