How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Sun, 27 May 2007 10:27:19 GMT

Flexibility - Not only the ankles but the fore arms - I just tried to do the junior birdman thing. I found I could not do it without causing major pain in my forearms.

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 13:30:26 GMT

... I recently read in an article that ankle flexibility comes at the cost of ankle instability (= higher propensity for ankle sprain).... I’m not sure that I’d agree with that, but what do I know. :-| See my reply to your leg buoyancy post regarding the standing/balancing exercise that helps to strengthen the ankles, and help keep them flexible. Most kicking advice that I’ve heard is that you want the ankles “loose”. I’ve seen some posts regarding the lack of ankle flexibility being a problem (like this one on “Aquabrakes”). In the American Red Cross (ARC) Swimming and Water Safety manual (which includes stroke technique) a part of the propulsion portion of the front crawl kick is described as being “when the foot snaps downward”. I can’t imagine doing the flutter kick with the ankle locked solid. The whip kick in breaststroke requires a LOT of ankle flexibility and strength. I’d say keep on keeping on with your ankle flexibility regimen. I would think the bigger problem for runners and tennis players would be the beating your joints (especially the ankles) take from all the pounding after the repeated impacts. Swimming is fairly low impact. Open Water (OW) swimming is pretty much zero impact (except that I hear you collide with other swimmers in OW competitions). ...

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 13:13:38 GMT

Like for most triathletes, I think that it's possible to reach a level of flexibility that is sufficient for decent performances to take place, without degrading stability (for other sports). Flexibility should improve by itself if you let your ankles be relaxed when you perform kicking sets. You can't really control flexibility, but you DO control the fact of relaxing this region. Flexibility can only improve while the feet are relaxed and floppy. To improve this aspect, a simple drill I like consist of kicking (with a board) alternating between very relaxed and slow pace with very hard and fast pace. "Fast/Slow" segments duration is totally up to you. You don't need to count the length (free your mind. Don't bother counting anything). I find that most people when they first get into this drill are kicking the "Slow" segments too fast, and the "Fast" segments too slow. The idea is to go as slowly as possible when you go slow. You focus on letting the ankles being floppy and relaxed. Then hopefully, when you kick fast and hard some of this relaxation gets transfered and improvement in flexibility takes place as a result of increasing the pressure (by kicking real hard). I dunno if these clips still work fine, but if yes then here's a clip about flexibility and floppiness. www.dropshots.com/day.php here's one where I kick as slowly as I possibly can. Notice that even though water is splashing a bit, there is zero effort in this clip. Just relaxation and floppiness. www.dropshots.com/day.php And finally, here's one where I kick fast. Me (and this is only limited to me) I like to kick fast on top of water (not saying it's the best way to kick, but it's my way). I don't like to make the effort of kicking underneath the surface. www.dropshots.com/day.php

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 12:20:58 GMT

I had no problems with my ankles when I took up running during college swimming. At that point I had been swimming for about 10 years so I'm guessing my ankles were at their most flexible. My ankle problems started showing up a few years later when I had quit swimming. That being said, I think that swimming increases flexibility but also some strength and stability. If you think about it, every push off the wall uses the ankles and feet. Between the walls, flexibility is important. At the walls it is strength and stability. My incoherent thoughts this morning before having any :coffee: .

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

The Fortress — Mon, 21 May 2007 10:21:59 GMT

Hi Fortress my dear ;-) I tend to agree with you that not everyone is made for running, and that ankle stability (moreover its impact on leg alignment) plays a big role in making your life as a runner easy or painful. Most could probably still get away safe and sound by consulting a competent specialist in adapted insole. But even a carefully picked pair of insole won't match a stable pair of ankles. Of course (as you already know) a nice and slow progression in volume increase also helps. I started a friend of mine at the office last year (47yo swimmer). 10min of running 3xweek, adding 5 minutes to every workout every week until he reached 30min. Then make 1 session (not all of them) longer by 5min a week until he reached 90min. That brought him to run one half marathon and one half Ironman. For the first time of his life, he didn't suffer shin splints. Hi Solar, my dear: I'm feeling a little shin splinty lately. I fear I have upped my mileage too quickly with the lure of spring and sunshine. It's not too bad though. I also recently replaced my running shoes. Unfortunately, my old running shoes have mysteriously vanished -- and my custom orthodics (for loose ankled overpronators) were in them. ***. :sad: I'm going to the running store to get some insoles tomorrow. My bones are not deformed, Lefty! Feisty: Mini-Fort played soccer for years with a travel team before recently quitting. She has loose ankles and was getting chronic ankle sprains. Both of us feel we have a compromised ankle. I've done ankle rehab and I'm not sure if the ankle I injured running will ever be quite the same. I guess I need to do my strengthening exercises more regularly. Mr. Fort and Fortson are runners. They do not have flexible ankles at all. So I have to think genetics plays some role, although proper training can compensate for a deficit either way.

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

The Fortress — Mon, 21 May 2007 09:47:37 GMT

While I keep working on increasing my ankle flexibility, I recently read in an article that ankle flexibility comes at the cost of ankle instability (= higher propensity for ankle sprain), which spells trouble for runners and tennis players. Unlike Bud (who is probably more vigilant than I), I find this to be somewhat true. I have very loose flexible ankles naturally. I ran for many years, but when I increased the distance, ended up injured. Sprained ankle and stress fracture in the ankle. I switched to masters swimming, which I appear to be more genetically suited for. The loose ankles really help on the SDKs. I wear fins a fair amount (to save the shoulders). Those have made my ankles even more flexible. I still run, but I have to be very cautious: stability running shoes, running on dirt, and I sometimes tape my ankle. I can do both, but then I don't compete at running anymore. I don't know about tennis, but I think that would be somewhat hard on the ankles and knees because you're constantly pivoting. I guess I would do both flexibility and strengthening exercises, if I were you. I do strengthening exercises when I remember to, particularly the one Bud mentions above. Good luck!

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 09:41:17 GMT

Unlike Bud (who is probably more vigilant than I), I find this to be somewhat true. I have very loose flexible ankles naturally. I ran for many years, but when I increased the distance, ended up injured. Sprained ankle and stress fracture in the ankle. I switched to masters swimming, which I appear to be more genetically suited for. Hi Fortress my dear ;-) I tend to agree with you that not everyone is made for running, and that ankle stability (moreover its impact on leg alignment) plays a big role in making your life as a runner easy or painful. Most could probably still get away safe and sound by consulting a competent specialist in adapted insole. But even a carefully picked pair of insole won't match a stable pair of ankles. Of course (as you already know) a nice and slow progression in volume increase also helps. I started a friend of mine at the office last year (47yo swimmer). 10min of running 3xweek, adding 5 minutes to every workout every week until he reached 30min. Then make 1 session (not all of them) longer by 5min a week until he reached 90min. That brought him to run one half marathon and one half Ironman. For the first time of his life, he didn't suffer shin splints.

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 09:30:37 GMT

I read (on this website) that what restricts range of motion in your ankles is bone, not muscle/tendons and thus you cannot do much about ankle flexibility even if you wanted to. What makes a swimmer's ankles be more flexible than his runner counterpart would therefore be deformation of bones? Tough sale, at least to me (with all due respect)

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 09:21:53 GMT

I read (on this website) that what restricts range of motion in your ankles is bone, not muscle/tendons and thus you cannot do much about ankle flexibility even if you wanted to.

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 08:52:40 GMT

Flexible ankles can certainly cause injuries if your ankles are also weak, but if you keep your ankles strong, you should be fine. Ankle raises on a stair are good for strength - stand facing up the stairs with your toes on the step and your heels off, and raise and lower yourself using your ankles. Try to use your hands as little as possible to balance yourself. You can also try doing one-legged ankle raises. The alphabet thing is also pretty good for both strength and flexible.

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 08:18:32 GMT

:) I played v-ball in high school and landed wrong once while blocking. Part of my rehab was to write the alphabet with each of my feet in the air. ..snip... (The alphabet task was really good for the flexibility without being strenuous.) ........ Please clarify, Karen. Were you supposed to write with your regular hand -with an alternating foot in the air- or were you supposed to write, holding the writing implement -whatever THAT was- with one foot while standing on the other? (Was it the English alphabet or Cyrillic?):)

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Former Member — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:13:17 GMT

I come from a running background and heard that the stiff ankles of runners would cause problems. I did achilles stretches to get the loose ankles I needed but my stiff ankles kept cramping my calves. I finally got long fins and suddenly realized that the tight area was not achilles but the top o the foot. Since then my calves don't cramp and my running has been unaffected. I know that if runners send too much time on treadmill they start to have the "loose ankle" problems you describe. Given all that, if you want run for fun/cross training/weight loss than stick to treadmills. If you want to run and compete, you must start training the small stabilizing muscles of the feet. Start with good shoes and flat surfaces and progress to golf courses for long runs and strides on your local HS football field barefoot. Good luck!

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

aquaFeisty — Mon, 21 May 2007 04:53:56 GMT

As for stability, in my youth, I broke my legs 7 times... mostly around the ankles/feet. I don't think ankle flexibility in itself brings on sprains. I think once you get the first sprain/strain/break, unless you restrengthen properly you're at risk for more and more sprains. Here are the exercises I did in high school (and I go through a month or so more of these each time I sprain my ankle): Toe raises: each leg, toe pointed neutral/in/out, 10-20 each direction, go really slow when coming down Ankle pulls: loop of theraband over both feet. with one leg at a time, pull/flex your ankle outwards. 10-20 each leg Leg lifts: Balanced flat on one foot, lift the other leg forward, out, and back (returning leg to the center each time). 10-20 full circuits each leg. If your nerve pathways are as thrashed as mine were, you might have to hold onto something to do the leg lifts. Then do them without holding on. Then do them with your eyes shut. The purpose of this exercise is twofold: to strengthen the little bitty stabilizer muscles and to rebuild the nerve pathways that say, "Hey brain, you're about to go over on your ankle. How about we compensate for that!" Since doing these exercises, I went from about 3-4 bad sprains/year (like bad enough to require crutches) to about 1 every 4 years or so. And during that time, my ankle flexibility has improved a lot. While I don't run or play tennis, I used to play soccer and had no problems with flexible swimming ankles and playing soccer (though I taped up before games and practice.)

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Karen Duggan — Mon, 21 May 2007 04:35:24 GMT

Sorry about that confusion! I would sit in a chair and hold up one foot in the air. With my foot I would make an "A" in the air. So I would point my toe down to the left, go up to the top of the A, go down to the right, and then cross it in the middle. Then I'd do B. Point up at the top, "draw" a line down.... Make sense? Let me know. I can try again.

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Karen Duggan — Mon, 21 May 2007 03:25:44 GMT

I played v-ball in high school and landed wrong once while blocking. Part of my rehab was to write the alphabet with each of my feet in the air. That and some rest, and I haven't had any other ankle problems. (The alphabet task was really good for the flexibility without being strenuous.)

RE: How do triathletes and tennis players work on the ankle flexibility?

Allen Stark — Mon, 21 May 2007 03:02:26 GMT

I have breaststroker's ankles and can get sprains walking on an uneven surface(I'm also a klutz out of the water.) However in my 20s and 30s I played a lot of raquetball and never had any problems with my ankles from that.