Another USMS death while competing

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Mon, 14 May 2007 11:34:10 GMT

You witnessed a very uncommon event. Stress tests should be quite safe. However, you may not have needed one in the first place. I agree with Gull that if you aren't experiencing any symptoms, its the exception when a stress test is going to be of any value. The risk of death with a stress test is 1 in 10,000. Routine (screening) stress tests in asymptomatic individuals are not recommended because the yield is low. And false positive results may lead to additional unnecessary studies. That's not to say that we don't perform them in this setting, because they can be of value; we just individualize our approach.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sun, 13 May 2007 07:47:03 GMT

I don't like stress tests. I had been sent to have one and the guy taking the test before me died during the test, needless to say I did not take it. You witnessed a very uncommon event. Stress tests should be quite safe. However, you may not have needed one in the first place. I agree with Gull that if you aren't experiencing any symptoms, its the exception when a stress test is going to be of any value.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sat, 12 May 2007 16:58:05 GMT

....Jocularity aside, we all remember I believe the case of that young health guru, a few years ago, who used to run (if memory serves) and who dies suddenly. You never know when IT is gonna hit....QUOTE] Can I just supply some details about him ... he started jogging at the age of 35 after years of smoking and being overweight - with odds stacked against him at that point, starting to exercise probably enabled him to live longer than might be expected given his health history. Here is something from this website: www.halhigdon.com/.../Fixx.htm "Jim Fixx...given the fact that his father died of a heart attack at age 43, and he survived nine years longer to age 52. He might have lived longer had he listened to Dr. Cooper, who urged him to take a stress test during one visit to the Cooper Clinic in Dallas. Despite having cholesterol levels above 250, Fixx demurred for reasons we can only guess at. In the several months before his death, Fixx ignored what hindsight reveals were the warning signs of advanced coronary artery disease. An autopsy revealed blockage in Fixx's three main arteries of 95 percent, 85 percent and 50 percent."

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sat, 12 May 2007 15:31:02 GMT

Appearances can be deceiving. fitsugar.com/.../tofi

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sat, 12 May 2007 13:51:00 GMT

I don't like stress tests. I had been sent to have one and the guy taking the test before me died during the test, needless to say I did not take it.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sat, 12 May 2007 13:45:06 GMT

It is true that there is no crystal ball when it comes to sudden death. However, there are things that all of us can do. Obviously, check your blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood sugar. Don't smoke. Be consistent with regard to physical activity. The vast majority of us under the age of 50 who don't have obvious risk factors or symptoms will be fine. Once we get past that threshold, I think it is reasonable to get more information. In particular, you should ask your provider what your Framingham risk is. If they can't tell you, they can find it by doing a google search. If your risk by the Framingham score is less than 10%, don't sweat it. Most of us will have a low risk (i.e., less than 10%).

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sat, 12 May 2007 13:29:46 GMT

At what age does one start having cardiac tests? Cholesterol should be checked by age 20. If by cardiac tests you mean stress tests or CT scans, there are no recommendations currently for routine screening in asymptomatic individuals.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

That Guy — Sat, 12 May 2007 12:21:48 GMT

At what age does one start having cardiac tests? (Sorry I just realized I'm still posting in my alias in an SR thread.) 31 in my case.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Sat, 12 May 2007 07:15:31 GMT

I had a stress echo and the cardiologist said that the results, which were normal, did not predict future cardiac events. There is no way to know when you will have an MI. Just reduce the known risk factors and go on with your life.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Fri, 11 May 2007 14:21:59 GMT

At what age does one start having cardiac tests? (Sorry I just realized I'm still posting in my alias in an SR thread.)

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Fri, 11 May 2007 14:00:07 GMT

For me,swimming fast feels good,my cardiac tests so far don't say I can't,so I will. Now that makes good sense! :wine:

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Allen Stark — Fri, 11 May 2007 09:13:03 GMT

Gull pointed out there are no good studies on the effect of vigorous exercise on longevity. There are studies saying moderate exercise is beneficial,but to my knowlege there are none saying it is better than vigorous exercise. Case studies and anecdotal data are not a substitute for controlled studies. It is hard to get volnteers to engage in vigorous exercise and matching Masters athletes with controls probably wouldn't work as I suspect we are more health conscious(but it might make some interesting studies.) For me,swimming fast feels good,my cardiac tests so far don't say I can't,so I will.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Fri, 11 May 2007 09:03:43 GMT

.... and some people, when they read somewhere that most accidents occur within a few hundred yards of "home", decided to play it safe and move. Jocularity aside, we all remember I believe the case of that young health guru, a few years ago, who used to run (if memory serves) and who dies suddenly. You never know when IT is gonna hit (or grab) you. So, live the best you know how and then come what may ........... Yes, you never know. Be that as it may, there are certain activities that are going to increase your chances of having IT happen sooner than it might otherwise occur.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Fri, 11 May 2007 08:32:10 GMT

Sure. Sleep is also more dangerous than driving drunk. .... and some people, when they read somewhere that most accidents occur within a few hundred yards of "home", decided to play it safe and move. Jocularity aside, we all remember I believe the case of that young health guru, a few years ago, who used to run (if memory serves) and who dies suddenly. You never know when IT is gonna hit (or grab) you. So, live the best you know how and then come what may ...........

RE: Another USMS death while competing

art_z — Fri, 11 May 2007 04:16:03 GMT

Matt, I am pretty sure that fellow-who-used-to-post-here-and-was-the-fastest-in-the-world-of-people-with-his-precise-background outed you as a wimp long ago. He pegged me as a socialist, so I say just throw someone else's money at the problem. aaaah, whatever happend to that guy... he was ultra annoying

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 16:57:42 GMT

I can only assume this is also a joke. Losing weight too taxing on a person? What about the overall health benefits, forget the swim benefits only. I definitely think a doctor should be involved with a weight loss and/or athletic program but I doubt there are many doctors who would state that weight loss would be too taxing to consider. Who knows, maybe it would be. Well I'm 180 to lose the last 10lbs would require a huge output of energy and commitment that I think would be taxing on me. It's not like Iam in that bad a shape. So while slightly humourous tone...not a joke per se.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 16:51:56 GMT

Research is helping us learn more about: 1. Early detection of CAD, and 2. Identification of the "vulnerable" plaque. That's how more of these deaths can be prevented. Until then, it stands to reason that you should (with your physician) assess your risk for CAD and modify your risk factors accordingly. The risk associated with smoking a pack a day is far greater than the risk of competitive swimming.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 16:05:48 GMT

The lady (maria lenk) was surrounded by physicians. She had all the money and opportunity to be examined. She lived in New Mexico with her american husband and came down here to swim and visit. No way to predict an aortic or other aneurysm. The thing would have blown up with her swimming or not. That is my point. I am not saying for people to perform hara kiri by swimming. I am just saying that within certain limits, it is not the swimming that will kill you. It is underlying diseases that will kill you whatever you do.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 16:05:18 GMT

"Do not go gentle into that good night" is about swimming even when old. I did a play on the words, from memory. Some people want to "go gentle into that good night", others might swim into it. Our own famous brazilian Maria Lenk, world record holder in the upper ages, died about a month ago after a swim. She was 92 years old and the autopsy showed a massive aortic aneurysm. Not caused by swimming, but by her age maybe? Lots of controversy over her swimming at 92 in the local press. Her training was 1,500 meters per day. She was planning on swimming 1,500 free at a meet, just a couple of weeks ago, in Brasilia. billy fanstone At 92 I don't think you need to worry too much about premature death. Just enjoy your life. It seems this is the choice she made. 92 seems like a lot of years for my 401k to cover!

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 16:00:23 GMT

"Do not go gentle into that good night" is about swimming even when old. I did a play on the words, from memory. Some people want to "go gentle into that good night", others might swim into it. Our own famous brazilian Maria Lenk, world record holder in the upper ages, died about a month ago after a swim. She was 92 years old and the autopsy showed a massive aortic aneurysm. Not caused by swimming, but by her age maybe? Lots of controversy over her swimming at 92 in the local press. Her training was 1,500 meters per day. She was planning on swimming 1,500 free at a meet, just a couple of weeks ago, in Brasilia. billy fanstone Obviously this is a personal choice and there is no right or wrong answer. Having said that, I would prefer to not meet my demise with a combination of intense pectoral/chest angina and drowning. Maybe I am just a wimp. I most likely will continue swimming well into my elderly years but not to the point of increasing my risk for cardiac events. It will be a decision made with the input of a qualified physician at the time.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 15:52:21 GMT

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 15:50:18 GMT

I read the other day that if you do as little as 15 minutes of high intensity activity a week, you can boost your metabolism, burn more calories and increase fitness. You can obviously burn more calories if you work harder. So, while there be no incremental cardio benefit from increasing the intensity of the workout, there are other benefits. I do some moderate stuff, but I'd lose my mind with boredom if that's all I did. I guess the downside of upping the intensity is that you are more injury prone. 3 herniating degenerative discs, bum knee, tend to think most intense aerobic activities are too risky... ..toying with doing some water treading though

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 15:44:30 GMT

Well, how do you know? You drop 20 pounds you might be a lot faster. You may be fat and fast but you could be less fat and faster. Lugging around a bunch of extra weight also impacts endurance and stroke mechanics, in my opinion. 20lbs?!?!? thanks haha In seriousness I agree, a slightly sleeker me might go faster but the weight loss process would probably be too taxing on me to the point that I'd weaken myself. Maybe another 5lbs is good, but I doubt without me being a FT athlete we will not be seeing my 6 pack.

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 14:26:35 GMT

I pondered this overnight and also chatted it up (albeit in 15-20 second intervals) this morning at practice. So, if I swim 10 X 100 on 2:00, which is a super cruise, I'm getting the same benefit as a harder 10 X 100 on 1:10? Please help me understand. It would seem to me that if I'm working harder that I would get more benefit but maybe that's not the case. I think this is one of those cases where more isn't necessarily better. The studies indicate that the cardiovascular benefit (by which I mean lowering your risk of heart attack) is achieved through moderate exercise. I am not aware of any data demonstrating more of a benefit with strenuous exercise. Are you really doing 10 x 100 on 1:10?

RE: Another USMS death while competing

Former Member — Tue, 08 May 2007 13:47:37 GMT

I prefer Dylan Thomas: 'Rage, rage against the dying of the light Do not go gently into that good night'