Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:57:54 GMT

One of the biggest surprises I got from really learning fly was how much core body strength is really involved in the other strokes. I thought I was deeply engaging core body muscles in my other strokes, but I gained a whole new level of understanding on this when I got proficient at fly. That's good enough for me to give it a try. Make week after my taper.:drink:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:52:22 GMT

Does any one think that crawl would benifit from using a single arm breaststroke and recovery above the water eg by finshing the stroke where the breaststrokers do near the shoulder instead of finishing at the thigh??? or variables. I think I am going to experiment.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:42:24 GMT

... One more question... Is there a benefit to doing the Fly?.... One of the biggest surprises I got from really learning fly was how much core body strength is really involved in the other strokes. I thought I was deeply engaging core body muscles in my other strokes, but I gained a whole new level of understanding on this when I got proficient at fly. --- As for free vs. *** I’ve heard that good freestylers (front crawl) are typically good at fly, but I know that fly is an offshoot of breaststroke. Go figure. Personally I view *** as an opportunity to rest in an IM, or to get some extra points at a meet, but my times are really slow. I think to do *** fast is probably the hardest thing to do in swimming, there is just so much drag inherent in the stroke.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:56:53 GMT

As for as the shoulders, I think fly just makes them really really BIG. I don't care if SS agrees with this or not. Fly breeds broad shoulders. Fly breeds shoulder muscles! Your shoulders do not grow further apart unless you're using really sloppy form and have loosey goosey tendencies to begin with...:eek: LOL hahaha

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:39:39 GMT

Tracy: I'd rather be me than you! At least we agree on this!!!!!!:rofl:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:33:44 GMT

It's all good, however I am a Fly person. Gor Boost

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:33:13 GMT

Actually Fort you can use that stroke in a freestyle event.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:30:29 GMT

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:16:13 GMT

Hey Skip......here is the overall truth to this long discussed myth...... When it comes to Breaststroke - There are those of us that can, and the rest are just jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :banana: :wiggle: :groovy: :applaud: :bow: :drink:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:02:49 GMT

Fort you know I like doing fly It's fun and it impresses folks that don't swim hahaha even if you are stinky at it. :rofl: I need a coach...lol Or is that I'm a slowcoach... Breaststrokers are like swans...graceful and beautifully gliding along on the surface but legs working like the clappers beneath...

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 15:54:53 GMT

but I don't understand Fly at all. Sorry, :dunno: Yeah I think you actually need to be on shrooms to understand it too...

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 15:49:28 GMT

I believe and practice the theory that you shouldn't do fly unless you're swimming it perfectly (or, you know, as well as you can). Otherwise, if you're flailing around and straining to try and finish a long set, you are susceptible to injury or imprinting incorrect technique. So why do it at all? This is an honest question. I don't know how to fly. It doesn't look like fun and its really slow--something, I am trying to overcome and avoid injury. I have found that my *** kick is a lot faster than my free style and I'll do *** just as a break from swimming all free. I am sure I am doing it all wrong, but I don't understand Fly at all. Sorry, :dunno:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 15:31:21 GMT

Actually, freestyle is just a way to train for butterfly. Huh!?!:confused: :confused: :confused:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 14:43:14 GMT

Actually, freestyle is just a way to train for butterfly.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

poolraat — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:56:20 GMT

Actually Fort, my love, I must disagree slightly. I think it's okay to swim tired fly. Not when you stroke is completely falling apart but when it hurts (tired muscle pain not ripping muscle pain or joint pain). I agree, but when it breaks down to the point of butterstruggle (for me at about 75 y) then you should quit. ...it is impressive to watch when done right!:bow: A friend of mine said this. "Chicks dig guys that swim fly" :banana:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Allen Stark — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:51:36 GMT

I love breaststroke and breaststroke loves me:hug: I love fly,but it hurts me:frustrated: Freestyle and I are"just good friends":smooch: Backstroke hates me and has tried to drown me:help: Seriously, a good drill I have found for EVF is dog paddle with snorkle. It is basically one EVF after another and it is easy to watch your hands and forearms.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

The Fortress — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:43:32 GMT

Thank Fort and Queen: One more question that will hopefully not spawn too many *** strokers to comment. Is there a benefit to doing the Fly? Since you are risking your joints and admittedly use Free as a training device, does Fly help balance the muscles in the shoulder or have a beneficial stretch, add power, or coordination, anything positive, except that it is fun for those of you that can? PS: it is impressive to watch when done right!:bow: What some girl said. Plus, fly is all about core strength and balance and timing. So presumably mastering fly would derivatively improve your other strokes. As for as the shoulders, I think fly just makes them really really BIG. I don't care if SS agrees with this or not. Fly breeds broad shoulders. No illusion. However, it does nothing but strain your rotator cuff muscles, so you better strengthen those separately. Also, freestyle is a "training device" for all strokes, not just fly. Tracy: See how jealous you breaststrokers are!! :rofl:

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

some_girl — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:37:20 GMT

So why do it at all? This is an honest question. I don't know how to fly. It doesn't look like fun and its really slow--something, I am trying to overcome and avoid injury. I have found that my *** kick is a lot faster than my free style and I'll do *** just as a break from swimming all free. I am sure I am doing it all wrong, but I don't understand Fly at all. Sorry, :dunno: It is definitely not slow! It is the second-fastest stroke and is actually faster at its fastest point than any other stroke. But anyway, if you love fly, there is nothing like it and if you don't, you don't. De gustibis and all that. But if you love it, it is the perfect combination of grace, power, splashing, and showing off.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

The Fortress — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:26:43 GMT

Actually Fort, my love, I must disagree slightly. I think it's okay to swim tired fly. Not when you stroke is completely falling apart but when it hurts (tired muscle pain not ripping muscle pain or joint pain). If you want to swim the 100 or 200 fly in meets you are very likely to die a bit in your stroke and technique. So you need to know that you can push through that. Last night we did a long set and I did 1/2 of every 100 fly my arms were really tired at the end but it was a great time to focus on technique and to really stretch out the stroke. I think it helps mentally as well. The catch (haha) is that you have to know the difference between hurting yourself and pushing yourself. I agree! If you want to swim the longer fly events, you have to build up endurance. But you can do broken swims too. I was just saying that you shouldn't be flailing around or pushing through a complete stroke breakdown --- you know what bad technique causes! ;) :rofl: Plus, I still think if you know how to do fly, you don't have to train that much fly in practice. Tracy: I'd rather be me than you!

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

FlyQueen — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:26:36 GMT

Long Axis is only half evil ... and short axis is only half good ... the other half is for old ladies and people that don't want to get their faces wet ... real swimmers swim fly!

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

FlyQueen — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:20:34 GMT

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

Allen Stark — Tue, 01 May 2007 12:01:36 GMT

I thought Fort had made peace with her inner breaststroker,but now she calls us crazy(we are,but thats not an excuse.) I think those fast freestyles may have moved her to the darkside(long axis is the axis of evil.) Stay Good Fort,Stay Good.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

The Fortress — Tue, 01 May 2007 11:54:56 GMT

So why do it at all? I do it because I love it! Fly is my favorite. I just have to be really careful to not overdo or my shoulders suffer. But if you don't like it, I wouldn't do it. Fly is hard to learn from scratch. It took me awhile to re-learn it as a master after my 24 year break. As long as you're doing some breaststroke or backstroke to give yourself and your shoulders a break and work different muscle groups, that should be fine. Rich: In my experience, most breaststrokers can learn to do fly, but it doesn't always work in reverse. Many flyers (like me) never learn to do breaststroke very well.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

The Fortress — Tue, 01 May 2007 11:36:50 GMT

Huh!?!:confused: :confused: :confused: Bill, you don't have to train that much fly to swim it in meets! Generally, if you do a lot of fly in practice, your technique will degrade quickly from the muscle fatigue. I believe and practice the theory that you shouldn't do fly unless you're swimming it perfectly (or, you know, as well as you can). Otherwise, if you're flailing around and straining to try and finish a long set, you are susceptible to injury or imprinting incorrect technique. So, to avoid this and get the training in, you can do freestyle instead. Even for strokers like me, a pretty large percentage of an average workout (or any engine building) is done freestyle. Although too much freestyle is too boring. I prefer to mix up the strokes.

RE: Free v. *** - you're all just joshing, right?

swimr4life — Tue, 01 May 2007 11:11:49 GMT

I guess I'm the flip-flopper on this one. I started my swim career as a flyer. I then morphed in into a freestyler. Now, I can't do fly for more than 50 yards because I can't build my endurance due to yucky shoulders. So, I've been working on *** and back. I actually like *** now! I.M. is the best race of all!:D