will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

BillS — Fri, 04 May 2007 12:16:33 GMT

68.76 (31.63) (37.13) 5.5 64.00 (29.69) (34.31) 4.62 63.22 (29.68) (33.54) 3.86 You didn't say what your best 50 time is, but it looks like you're comfortable in the 29.7 range for the first 50. I have been shooting for an opening 50 about a second to 1.5 slower than my 50 time, which may be a bit ambitious for me at this point. When I do that, my splits differential is closer to three seconds than 1.5 to 2. I think you are correct that your splits shoud be closer together. Based on your improvement in the last race, I'm guessing you picked up the opening 50 a bit, but really picked up time on the back half. OK, so looking at the table above, we see that you picked up over .6 on the opening 50 and .8 on the back 50. That's very substantial improvement, but your 3.67 differential is still too big. How did it feel? Did you first 50 feel smooth and strong? How are your turns? What's your stroke count like? Are you just running out of gas, or are there structural problems with your race? Part of what you need to determine is whether you are a rabbit or a finisher. I'm still trying to work that out myself. Here's an example from my last meet, in which I was beaten by a half second by a guy in my age group whom I'd love to knock off someday: Me (26.31) (29.27) 55.58 Wil E. Opponent (27.19) (27.85) 55.04 Wil E. is an experienced competitor, and knew that this race being at altitude might be a factor, so he probably went a little easy on the first 50 and then brought it home with a vengeance. He likely left a little of that race in the pool, but he did what he needed to do to win. My 26.31 was exactly a second faster than my 50 free time, which should have been about right, but I was unable to hang onto that pace, whether due to altitude, lack of conditioning, or staying up late and drinking beer and playing guitar with a buddy the night before, who knows? Anyway, I would work on swimming some 50s at 28.5 - 29 to learn how that pace feels, but really work on negative or flat split 100's to learn how to bring it home. Focus on your technique in the back half when you start to tire, especially the third 25, then rely on your legs to sprint to the finish. Practice fast turns in practice, too. I like to sidle up next to someone in the next lane coming into a turn and then try and beat them off every wall. It's easy to get lazy with your turns in practice, and all 3 turns are critical in the 100. Good luck!

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Fri, 04 May 2007 05:59:27 GMT

It felt real good going out. I was going stroke for stroke with a girl next to me and it was exciting. I stayed with her stroke for stroke unitl the third turn. My turn was weak and poorly executed and she put half a body on me, then motored away in the last 25. It was alot of fun. I was gassed out. I kick hard in the begining. My kick went away on the last 25. I work out in a 100ft pool, so my "50" is really a 66.6. It makes a difference!!

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Thu, 03 May 2007 08:36:52 GMT

The split in my last 100SCY free race was 29.04 (32.71) My best 50 time is a 26.85. According to this, where am I lacking? At the meet, the "fast" swimmers differential are right around 1.5-2 seconds, and they are about 1.5-2 seconds slower than their 50. It looks like I am taking it out OK in the first 50 OK, but I have no finishing strength. I felt gassed on the last turn and lap! Is that what my splits mean to you?

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Tue, 01 May 2007 05:18:31 GMT

I think swimming some sets of 200's might help you. It seems like your speed is progressing just fine but you are running out of gas perhaps. I can say with certainty that swimming 200's has made my 100's seem like a cake walk anymore. I took my 100 repeat time and doubled it for 200's. For example, if you are swimming 100's on 1:30 then you would do 200's on 3:00. You don't need to do 8 or 10 of them, but even a few will help your body develop beyond what swimming the shorter distances will. IMHO anyhow.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Tue, 01 May 2007 01:33:05 GMT

BillS and scyfreestyler Both of these workouts sound like an excellent course of action. I will comply.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

BillS — Tue, 01 May 2007 01:06:30 GMT

Based on your 26.8 50 time, I'd work on swimming some repeat 50's trying to hold 28 - 28.5 (but add a couple seconds if you're going from a push as opposed to a dive). The goal should be to give you a good feel for your opening pace, plus build some endurance for the back half. Then try some negative split 100's, going long, smooth, and strong while holding back a little for the first 50 and building the second 50, working each turn hard from inside the flags. Maybe 32 - 33 from a push for the first 50 and try and pick it up to 31 - 32 for the second. Then put it all together and time trial 100's regularly. With 26.8 50 speed, you should be able to get under a minute fairly soon and can go on to your 55 second goal.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:48:33 GMT

What you have to do is set a time for your 25s that you can handle. Take your best time for a push off 50 divide it by 2, ad a second or two and swim your 25s at that time.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:46:19 GMT

I would start throwing in some 25s at 12 sec x 5 with a 10 sec rest, then rest between the 5 x 25s for 25 sec, then repeat the 5 x 25s 7 more times. this is a max Vo2 type work out. don't forget your warmups and warmdowns. You could set your 25 times to be a little slower if you can not make the 12 second times.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:16:19 GMT

rtodd are you talking yards or meters?

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:33:13 GMT

My splits for the 100m years ago 26sec flat first 50 - 2nd 50 31sec I did get faster when I was 35 years old but never kept track.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Muppet — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:12:20 GMT

That is am impressive progression for the last year! Congratulations! That really shows how all the hard work you've been doing has positively influenced your swims. Keep it up and you'll be shooting for sub-55 before you know it! :groovy: :applaud:

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:31:13 GMT

That sounds brutal.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:35:19 GMT

SCY. Haven't had a go at meters yet.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:09:23 GMT

My 50 time is 26.8, so I am going out at least 2.5 seconds slower. So perhaps I need to work on pure speed, that way I have more speed reserve, which can lead to more even splitting?

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

BillS — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:25:11 GMT

I think you're doing great, and can get to your initial sub-minute goal pretty easily. Here's how your times progressed: 68.76 (31.63) (37.13) 5.5 64.00 (29.69) (34.31) 4.62 63.22 (29.68) (33.54) 3.86 You didn't say what your best 50 time is, but it looks like you're comfortable in the 29.7 range for the first 50. I have been shooting for an opening 50 about a second to 1.5 slower than my 50 time, which may be a bit ambitious for me at this point. When I do that, my splits differential is closer to three seconds than 1.5 to 2. I think you are correct that your splits shoud be closer together. Based on your improvement in the last race, I'm guessing you picked up the opening 50 a bit, but really picked up time on the back half. I'd work on pacing in practice, trying to go out in around 29 flat or under and then negative or even splitting the second 50. Go out smooth and powerful on the first 25, work the turn, and then start building from there. The fast folks tell me that the third 25 is crucial, and I think that's accurate. Good luck. Maybe do some time trials every now and again if your meet season is over.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:02:06 GMT

Don't know yet on this last race. Here are the splits for my prior 100's. time split 70.24 68.76 31.63 64.00 29.69 63.22 29.68 61.75 I think the story for the splits I do have show I struggle in the second half. What do you think? What should the split difference be? I am thinking 1 to 1.5 seconds?

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

BillS — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:24:47 GMT

Unfortunately for the 100 free, I fell short of my 60 sec. goal and went 1:01.75. I feel I am struggling on the last 25. How did you split it? My splits often tell me the "story" of my race, even the 100.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:24:45 GMT

Thanks, This forum has helped a great deal. Probably no more meets till the fall, so hopefully by next year I can get to a 55.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

rtodd — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 07:25:20 GMT

Well, I scratched the 200, but did the 50. It was a good warmup and I had plenty of recovery. Unfortunately for the 100 free, I fell short of my 60 sec. goal and went 1:01.75. I feel I am struggling on the last 25. Plus I had a few poor hand entries where my hand hydrofoiled in the wrong direction, which I think affected me (I think every hand entry is critical in sprinting...no?). Turns were sub par and still need allot of work. Overall I am happy. Skipping the 200 was the right thing to do. Here is my 100 free progression. I graphed it and it is still linear, which is incouraging for me. Date (time) 4/2/2006 (70.24) 4/30/2006 (68.76) 1/21/2007 (64.00) 3/11/2007 (63.22) 4/28/2007 (61.75)

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

The Fortress — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:49:00 GMT

Leslie, I think I may have to raise an entry fee just to help raise my revenue per swimmer :joker: :banana: :rofl: Well, at the last meet at your pool in December, I was a little gimpy in the shoulders. But, I'm hoping, like last July, that I can swim at least 4 events in July. I always reserve the right to scratch an event though. I think that meet last July was the only meet I've ever swum in where I didn't scratch an event! But I have it on good authority from a teammate ;) that it is highly advisable to swim very few events if you want to swim fast. Every time I swim a relay with his wife, he says I am swimming too many events. But it seems to work for him! Go ahead and raise the meet entry fee. It didn't stop that many people from swimming at colonies zones. I'll still drag myself from VA to MD in the wee hours for your darn meet. Just to race Mollie. LOL. Go rtodd! Please report back.

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Muppet — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:17:48 GMT

No it's not crazy! I've cruised in late to a meet for the purpose of swimming one event and then cheering for my teammates. Did a great time and had a blast. Leslie, I think I may have to raise an entry fee just to help raise my revenue per swimmer :joker: :banana: :rofl:

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Allen Stark — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:05:53 GMT

You have a goal and should do what it takes to achieve it. I went to one meet just to get a good time in the 100 BR. I swam an age group PB and was really happy. My personal philosophy is that one great swim trumps 3 good swims.So go for it and be great.:banana:

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

aztimm — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:22:58 GMT

deleted....

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:44:27 GMT

I swam a 400 free 1 hr before my 100 no problem

RE: will opening a meet with a 200 kill my other events?

Former Member — Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:57:17 GMT

I have been reading a LOT about negative splitting 200 Free's recently. I'll try to keep that in mind this coming July. Good luck rtodd.