The Camel thats gonna break my back

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:38:16 GMT

I believe, Morgan, you have a simple choice: yes I want to swim on the team, no I want to quit. The difficulty is taking the long-term view: will I be happy in my decision tomorrow, next month, six-months from now, 5-years from now? You and others can speculate all you want about what your coach meant when he said you didn't have heart. The only way to find out for sure is to ask him. I like a quote from what concentration camp survivor, Vicktor Frankl, wrote in Man's Search for Meaning, he says this: "...everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way." So, choose your attitude, choose your own way. Good Luck. --mjm

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

knelson — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:30:35 GMT

I was actually talking earlier with the fastest guy on the team, and he is very upset as well. He does not like the program either, and was very upset to hear that we were having mandatory practices. He feels he needs the time away from the pool in order to come back in the fall and dedicate himself for the next 7-8months, which I completly understand. He however, is being drastic and telling coach that he will quit the team (which for him will mean having to leave the school and go back home to a community college-because he depends on his scholarship) if coach makes him come to the practices. Anyone else find this bizarre? I can't imagine a college swimmer getting upset about having to train year round. Good thing this guy didn't decide to swim for Stanford! :) Morgan: about your coach. Keep in mind this is his career. His comments to you were probably ill advised, but he was probably upset, too, by his swimmers not performing well. Remember, the performance of his team is more or less the only measure of his success as a coach, and maybe whether or not he'll keep his job or not.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Allen Stark — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:21:50 GMT

Morgan,I know you tried,but it also sounded like you were disheartened before the meet due to the lack of sprint training.I don't know how to advise you except talk to him and see if he can be reasonable. I don't know if letting him know you did better without him would help or make things worse.I don't recommend this as I don't know him,but I think I'd print out your threads here and our feedback and take it to him so he knows what he is dealing with(and hopefully how wrong he has been for you.):dunno:

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Muppet — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:02:10 GMT

Good luck, Morgan! I recommend doing whatever it takes to have fun while swimming. The meet I met you, I had a bad 500 and I let it ruin the rest of the meet and the whole weekend. Never again! I will not walk into a meet again without a smile and will not walk out without having had an awesome time competing, talking with friends, meeting fellow forumites, etc! Life is too short! somewhere, off in the distance, a herd of rabbits are knawing on alfalfa and chanting your name... Morgan! Morgan! Morgan!:banana: :D

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:49:51 GMT

Anyone else find this bizarre? I can't imagine a college swimmer getting upset about having to train year round. Good thing this guy didn't decide to swim for Stanford! :) . I would say that that is a drastic measure, but keep in mind that we all chose this program for specific reasons...and maybe he chose it because it was not a hardcore, strict program. He has really bad shoulders, and now back too. He said he wouldnt mind a cross training program-biking or what not, but swimming he doesn't want to do because like I said, he has come to hate it as a result of our program here and because of his injuries. I mean, I don't agree with him, I think thats a little irrational, but I don't blame him. We did not have post season training last year, and there was no mention of it until yesterday when we got that e-mail. If we had been prepped for it, it might have been another thing...but getting an e-mail 3 weeks from the end of school, saying we all of a sudden need to rearrange our schedules to accomandate the 1 practice he is going to offer each day--of which we need to find a way to attend 3 a week, is :frustrated: . I can't imagine even 1/2 the team will show up...because there just isnt the time for it at this point...if you were counting on those 6hours a week to get your work done, (as I was--since the practices he is offering are mid-day rather than early morning or evening like during season) thats 6hours your losing. I mean I'm not even mad at him for having post season workouts-in fact I think its a good idea, and wish he had done it last year, but giving us 2.5 months off and then trying to instate this in the last 3 weeks of the semester is what has me ticked, I think most college kids would attest to this being the highest stress time of the year:woot:

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:41:28 GMT

Good luck, Morgan! somewhere, off in the distance, a herd of rabbits are knawing on alfalfa and chanting your name... Morgan! Morgan! Morgan!:banana: :D :wiggle: so funny, my first swim coach use to give me "Bunny power" before my races...that was interesting. haha

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 06:33:49 GMT

Leslie? Abject obedience? I don't think so...

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:53:10 GMT

Morgan, go into the meeting with an open mind. You've got to realize that you are probably going to be at a disadvantage from the start and the coach will feel the need to exert power. Just keep the dialog open, productive and professional. Besides, what is done is water under the bridge. Yes, swimming in the off season is certainly expected. I know that in the offseason, I needed the outlet from academics anyway. It is a plus that you can workout without meets to prepare for. Stay with it. I graduated almost 20 years ago and feel that staying with the team all four years is one of my best take-aways from the collegiate experience. Don't be one of those swimmers who walks away pissed off and discouraged. You've put too much time into it to do that. Regards, Tree

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:28:16 GMT

Something occurred to me while reading this thread. I'm getting the impression that some of your teammates lack heart, not you (the fastest guy is certainly one of them). Perhaps the coach was preaching to the choir? Or maybe you have more influence on your teammates then you know and he was trying to motivate everyone by directing the comment to you? I have never coached, but about 2 years ago I was promoted to Manager and I tried EVERYTHING to get my coworkers to respond. These workers were so unmotivated, nothing (and I truly mean nothing) worked. Plus I was help accountable for their shortcomings (like coaches are). Perhaps the coach was experiencing frustration with the team as a whole and you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Dealing with coaches, teachers, classmates, roommates, etc. in college is teaching you valuable lessons for dealing with clients, bosses, coworkers, spouses etc for the rest of your life. If anything, treat it as a life lesson. Hang in there and keep up the good work. Just remember your coach is human too with daily stress on the job and at home. He is not perfect and presumably he is doing the best that he can. When you speak with him, give him the benefit of the doubt - don't be accusatory, otherwise he'll become defensive and your conversation will be less then productive. Good luck - Keep us posted!

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

FlyQueen — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 02:19:56 GMT

I just have to applaud Jeff for an excellent post. :applaud: Now ... talking is great for both of you. Racing is hard. I have found that if I put too much pressure on myself I perform worse. I need to stay loose and focus at the same time. I put my IPod on and listen to goofy/fun songs . When I convinced myself to go out and have fun in my last 100 fly I dropped 3 seconds! I attribute part of it to some awesome coaching, hard work, and sticking to my game plan but another big part of it was that I relaxed and let my body do what it knows how to do. The last 25 always hurts, but that's when you put your head down and go ... In my coaching experinces ... I had two girls that I coached (gymnastics) one was FAR more naturally talented, she was unreal - absolutely had Olympic potential the other had zero natural talent & horrible flexibility. Guess which one was doing better and had more fun? Mags was unbelievably inflexible but she was one of the best gymnasts in the gym because she worked harder than everyone else and had the biggest heart ... sometimes we think we have the heart but we don't ... read Gold in the water for more on that ... Be honest with your coach, be honest with yourself ... did you let his methods and style break you down? Did you place blame with him or yourself? Did you step onto the blocks confident in knowing that you did everything you could do prepare? Did you have fun?

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:28:19 GMT

I will keep you all posted with how my talk goes with him, I just need to go in there on a mission, because he tends to be a jerk on the pool deck, but once your in his office or away from the pool he tries to be your best friend and fatherly figure, which makes it hard to maintain your momentum when you want to have a serious talk with him. It is crucial to keep this in mind as you move forward. Have the talk with him away from the pool to make sure you are seeing things eye to eye. However, the next time he fires off some remark at the pool that rubs you the wrong way try to remember that he is probably looking out for your best interest in his own bizarre way. I used to have a boss like this and once I learned the methods to his madness we got along famously and he actually helped promote me into a new stage in my career.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:44:48 GMT

Thanks everyone for the insight. Looking at everyone elses takes on my situation helps me to really sort out what I am feeling and what is/ might be reality. Maybe my coach did say that to light a fire under me, but saying that AFTER the last race, of the last meet of the collegiate season, seems a little late. I too believe that swimming is a huge mental game, and I do go into races confident that I can win, and that I will swim my best swims that I am capable of at any given time...being that I am allergic to chlorine and as a result fall ill with bronchitis on a monthly basis, I have had to overcome a lot of physical obstacles to swim, and on top of that, I have done best times with illness. I always focus before my races, and will not allow any of my teammates to follow me to the blocks to "chat" or whatever, because I like to stand behind the blocks and take in the whole situation and get into the zone. And I swim...because I love winning. I mean I like swimming, but nothing beats winning in my mind. If I could have a meet everyday, I would have it that way in an instant, because I thrive on competition and touching people out, so I really don't think he could possibly have been more disappointed in me, than I was in me...I was trying so hard in practice, out of practice at meets to really be focused and give it my everything, and for whatever reason was always falling short. I don't know if it was just an off season, or if it was the training we were doing...but I took the 3 weeks after the season ended, to design my own training regimine, and did best times of the season at a meet I entered. I don't know if that was because of the different approach to training (which I strongly feel it was) or because of some mental block I had towards my coach, or both. But, I really think it was the training approach, because I have had crappy coaches before, and my coach is not the worst I've had suprisingly, he's just ineffective on the deck, but that would not cause me to lose heart...because I still wanted to win and do good times, even if I was not happy with the coaching staff. I plan to talk to him tomorrow if he's around. I was actually talking earlier with the fastest guy on the team, and he is very upset as well. He does not like the program either, and was very upset to hear that we were having mandatory practices. He feels he needs the time away from the pool in order to come back in the fall and dedicate himself for the next 7-8months, which I completly understand. He however, is being drastic and telling coach that he will quit the team (which for him will mean having to leave the school and go back home to a community college-because he depends on his scholarship) if coach makes him come to the practices. It should be interesting to see what happens with that situation. I will keep you all posted with how my talk goes with him, I just need to go in there on a mission, because he tends to be a jerk on the pool deck, but once your in his office or away from the pool he tries to be your best friend and fatherly figure, which makes it hard to maintain your momentum when you want to have a serious talk with him. Thanks again for all your help and support, it means a ton to me, and as I told Kristina, this group of dedicated and supportive swimmers that I have met on here, have really helped me to get back to just simply enjoying swimming. I would not have wanted my college swimming experiance to ruin swimming for me, because as I have been reminded, since joining masters and getting to meet all of you--even if only virtually, I really do love the sport.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:21:05 GMT

Words can inspire...or they can have the opposite effect. The coaches job is to get results...and not all of them are endowed with kindness and understanding. Hard handed approaches are commonplace. At the end of the day...motivation comes from within yourself. But talking to him will help the situation. At least in a one on one conversation you can express your feelings if he says anything contrary. Maybe a compromise can be made? Two days with the team...and two days with the masters? At least he will see your sincerity in making the effort...and perhaps you may even get to know each other better? Hope you don't mind some fatherly advise ...which I would have passed on to my own daughters in college. PS... That was a great post Jeff.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:43:23 GMT

When I read Jeff's reply the thought that came to my mind was that perhaps the previous actions of the coach (ignoring Morgans suggestions on training, etc.) might have taken the fire out of her or shaken her confidence. I guess another option is that his poor training program just backfired and he put the blame on her instead of looking at the obvious. Bad coaches can really put a damper on one's drive for success. Unfortunately, once you are out in the working world the same can go for a bad manager/leader. I've had some great coaches and some great managers, and thrived; and then there were the others.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:18:09 GMT

Well, regardless of this coach's intent, his words fell far short of inspiration for Morgan. I have no experience with coaches, Morgan, just the people I've worked for and those who have worked for me. If you can request him to meet privately to really talk and listen to you (and you to him), you two may have a better relationship for it. If the conversation is a bust or if he won't make the time or space for the conversation, well, that is information you need to have before you make any other decisions. I struggle with this particular lesson all the time: try not to take what he said personally (even if, especially if, he wasn't trying to help). Reflect on the words, as the Jeff and Donna have suggested, take what lessons you can from it, and then let it go if you can. Much easier to say than do, I know. I'm pulling for you.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:59:06 GMT

Morgan, I have been thinking about this for most of the day, so forgive the inevitable rambling. As a former coach, I have told swimmers the same thing, in different terms. It was not an easy or fun thing to do, but sometimes it is necessary. I understand that you have been working very, very hard this season and putting in a lot of extra time. I don't know what exactly you have done, but there is an added ingredient to success that most tend to forget: drive. The swimmer I made this comment to was also a hard worker and dedicated. But I had seen all season that there wasn't a fire in him that got him from one end of the pool to the other during a race, either in workout or in a meet, and he wondered why one kid who trained the same way and had the same body type was always winning. I told him that when this other kid was forced to put the race on the line, something clicked in him and he didn't give up. I don't think he was really gearing his mind for racing. He was putting in the yardage because he was told to. But there was no personal stake in it. When you were doing sprint sets in workout, were you giving yourself positive pep talks, positive reinforcements and motivational speeches? I say this because while you might have thought that your 100 free race went well or just so-so, there's something we coaches see. Even the "amateur" ones. They can tell when you're racing, and in the minutes leading up to the race, if you're "in it to win it." There's a look we see in your eyes, and notice your body language. Did you take time to focus on your race before the actual race? Were you distracted in front of the blocks? Were you in "the zone" in the seconds before diving in? did you allow your body to tire and thus "give up?" Again, I wasn't there, so I can only ask the questions. As someone who has been on both sides of this situation, I know where the coach was coming from. He wasn't out to hurt your feelings, embarrass you or force you to quit. He was doing what he was paid to do. Be lucky you heard "you have no heart." I've seen and heard other coaches practically rip a swimmer to shreds. When he says "You have no heart," he's talking about that determination that is not only going to kick your body into a higher gear, but get your hand on the wall first. Michael Phelps trains like an animal, but he won seven gold medals and broke five world records at worlds because he'd been training his mind (and his heart) to race. Don't you think his legs were burning at the last turn of the 200 free? He could have backed off since he knew he was going to win, but that inner voice took over and I bet that last 25 was pure adrenaline and desire. You know the result. So what am I saying? You could have been so busy training your body that you forgot to train your spirit. It takes more than big muscles to win races. I have always maintained that swimming is 90 percent mental. Jeff, what a wonderful way to explain what a coach "sees" or doesn't see. Morgan, you must talk to your coach. If your heart hasn't really been in it lately, say so and maybe say why. If your heart has been in it, tell him it is and explain why you think you haven't performed as well. Sometimes as hard as it is, it is important to relay to someone in charge of your training to let them know about "you." It's a "coming together" for both and all parties. However, if you feel he is not the coach for you, look elsewhere. Maybe you are just in limbo or have other things distracting you, I don't really know. And I know it is hard to be "on" all the time; the compassion to do this is trying. Keep thinking about your very long swim that you originally posted here several months ago. Take the time to re-evaluate that priority and then set your training guidelines to reach it; if indeed you still want to. And I do know that there is only so much time in the day; priorities Morgan.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

The Fortress — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:39:51 GMT

It is crucial to keep this in mind as you move forward. Have the talk with him away from the pool to make sure you are seeing things eye to eye. However, the next time he fires off some remark at the pool that rubs you the wrong way try to remember that he is probably looking out for your best interest in his own bizarre way. I used to have a boss like this and once I learned the methods to his madness we got along famously and he actually helped promote me into a new stage in my career. We're rooting for you, Morgan! I hope the talk helps. There sounds like there might be something good under all the gunk. Does he know you've still been training on your own? If not, remember that camels tend to spit and be prepared. I had this same work experience. Twice. Once it worked beautifully when he found out I was a loud flyer that liked to swear. We did a fantasy baseball team together for years and had loud arguments over case law. The other, a woman from my own alma mater, wanted abject obedience. I don't think that's good for work or swimming. You have a brain, Morgan. Make sure to use it. Instincts are good too. Especially, as Jeff pointed our, killer instincts.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:01:15 GMT

Jeff's comments took me to school. Having said that, your coach should have a very good grasp on the rules whether it be for DQ's or for training allowances.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:24:02 GMT

It looks like it's eight hours for DII, also. Here's a link to the rule book: www.ncaa.org/.../2006-07_d2_manual.pdf See 17.1.5.2 on page 183. Good to know thanks...my coach, as you might recall from my DQ this past season, is not really on top of the rules and regulations.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:22:52 GMT

Sounds like a make or break time for you Morgan! I would do just like knelson said....go talk to him! Let him know how much you really are trying! How many others are on the team? Remember, he is probably dealing with several other personalities as well. Sometimes it takes you to make sure he is referring to you when he makes comments like that. Might have even been just a tool to push you a little further....if so, sounds like it is working! No he pulled me aside after my race and told me I didn't have heart. He directed it right at me. And I wouldn't say it worked to push me any further, seeing as how I have not talked to him since then, and have not swam at the school since. I suppose I will need to go talk to him however.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:04:35 GMT

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:55:59 GMT

D2 gives you 10 hours a week...according to my coach

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

Jeff Commings — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:37:53 GMT

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

knelson — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:07:59 GMT

It looks like it's eight hours for DII, also. Here's a link to the rule book: www.ncaa.org/.../2006-07_d2_manual.pdf See 17.1.5.2 on page 183.

RE: The Camel thats gonna break my back

knelson — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:50:24 GMT

Wow, that's a heck of a break he gave the team! I'm surprised he gave you that much off time. I believe the rules only allow "mandatory" training of 8 hours per week in the off-season (at least for DI, DIII could be different), so that might explain the three workouts per week he's doing. In any event, I'd think it would be very unusual for a coach to not have spring practices and I'd probably question his dedication. I think you need to decide whether you want to quit or remain with the team. I think you should meet with your coach and let him know how you feel.