Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:54:02 GMT

But, Ryk also lives in Tucson. He moved here about four months ago. And he swam in my lane the Monday after worlds, which means he flew to South Africa from Tucson, the same as Roland et. al. Is Ryk able to afford the trip more than Roland? Or is Swimming SA able/willing to pay for Ryk's trip because he spent two years in South Africa training after Athens? Jeff, Ryk is actually in a better situation due to the fact that he spent two years in SA after the Olympics, but Swimming SA plays no part of that. Ryk chose to move to SA after the Olympics because of the potential dollars that he could make through sponsors, appearances, etc. He made that decision partly because no other SA swimmer decided to do just that. Because of this, Ryk did well financially, but chose to move back to Tucson to get back to swimming fast. My guess, and it is only a guess, Ryk can afford the plane ticket or sponsors are paying for it, but I doubt that Swimming SA is paying for his flights and not Roland's.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Jeff Commings — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 06:29:38 GMT

Was Eric’s selection an exception to the criteria or a consideration built into the selection criteria for 1991 due to the timing of Pan PACs? No. Lots of swimmers from worlds used the rule to skip nationals and get ready for Pan Pacs.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Rob Copeland — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 01:05:29 GMT

I don't think that criteria was used after that year, but it shows there are exceptions that governing bodies are willing to make for the sake of their athletes.Was Eric’s selection an exception to the criteria or a consideration built into the selection criteria for 1991 due to the timing of Pan PACs? There is an interesting article at USA Swimming web site about the US selection process www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx There is a great quote by says Peter Dahlberg, the American record holder who missed making the 1972 Olympic team in the 100m breaststroke by .01 seconds, “You do it that day at that moment or you don’t.” And another by Jeff Farrell, the 1960 Olympian who competed in the trials wrapped in bandages from a newly removed appendix “I don’t deserve any special privileges, I’ll swim.” It also mentions the marginal, as best, DQ at the 96 trials in the women’s 400 IM that kept Kristine Quance-Julian 400 IM’er in the world out of the event a the Olympics. Dahlberg, Farrell, Quance-Julian, Steve Clark, Kurt Krumpholz and many other have felt the harshness of the selection criteria. But I digress. This post was about South Africa Swimming and Roland Schoeman. Schoeman is a phenomenal athlete who deserves every opportunity to compete on the world stage, representing his county in every event in which he has met his countries qualifying criteria.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:26:09 GMT

Jeff, In Ryk's case... he is competing at the Nationals, so his funding is safe. In the case of "big name" swimmers, I agree with you. USA Swimming pays the travel for all of our National Team swimmers to go to the Nationals... IF THEY CHOOSE TO. They are not required. Now granted, the USA has more money to go around and all the travel is not international, but in the case of Schoeman, you would think that Swimming SA would have the ability to step up and spend some money. Schoeman showed his true colors in turning down the offers from Qatar and the reason he is in Arizona training is to be the best he can be for his country. This disregard for Schoeman's loyalty is outrageous.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:23:32 GMT

Jeff as a foreign born observer, my opinion is that there is no way in hell the US would not pay for your swimmers to travel, and if by some remote chance that did happen, there'd be outcry and soon corporations lined up to pay for the athletes and grab some media time. To me that's the difference between here and other countries where it is much more left up to the individual to get themselves around and manage with typically much less sponsorship. Or at least only the very top get serious help, which usually means the up and comers go without.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:07:54 GMT

I was unaware that Duje had taken Qatar's offer.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:09:04 GMT

I assume that the South Africans do not allocate funds for travel to their own Nationals.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:04:02 GMT

from Swimming World Magazine: Schoeman, Several South African Stars Facing Raw Deal from National Governing Body Several topics at play here... Personally, I find it hard to agree with making some exceptions for studs, but as these guys are essentially paying their own way on behalf of the country/swim federation, I agree that they're getting the shaft here. One could make a case that they're being slightly exploited. Perhaps Qatar will grand them citizenship and they can train with Duje. One hell of a 400 free relay. feel free to comment and post other examples of swimmers getting the shaft... Perhaps they can do like a few Cricketers and join my boys...we can always do with a few extra golds :D

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

poolraat — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:27:02 GMT

We probably don't know all the facts behind this but I would bet that they are probably being punished for something they did or did not do. Remember how the AAU used to treat our athletes that did not toe the line at all times?

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Jeff Commings — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:13:09 GMT

I can't imagine why South Africa wouldn't pay for three of the world's best swimmers to come to their nationals, especially if they train elsewhere. But, to play devil's advocate, this would be outrageous if the USA did this. If someone like, say, Michael Phelps or Katie Hoff or even Leila Vaziri trained in another country, would we go into a fit because USAS wouldn't pay for them to attend our nationals? I wonder why it's no problem for Ryk. I'm not for or against this. But if they had been given free travel before, why have they stopped now? Especially given that Roland and Lyndon had pretty good swims at worlds. For countries like South Africa, paying for their best swimmers to come to the meet would probably bring spectators and give the sport publicity. But here's what irks me: Why would Roland et. al be excluded from the travel team just because they don't go to nationals? Wouldn't their times from worlds be good enough to put them into consideration? I think they should get an automatic pass.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:20:33 GMT

Schoeman wrote the following in December 2005 after he rejected an offer of R20m to swim for Qatar: "After serious and thorough consideration I have decided to stand by my initial decision not to swim for Qatar. I have, therefore, given instruction that the negotiations after the second approach from Qatar to swim for them should not be pursued. You will understand that this was not a simple and straightforward decision. While I fully understand the immediate financial implications of this decision, I believe and trust that solutions to this problem will be found within South Africa. I am acutely aware that South Africa is where it is today because of the sacrifice and commitment of large numbers of people over many years. As well, that the stability and democracy we have attained thus far has not been founded on pursuing short-term gains. It has been based on a willingness to seek long-term solutions to promote the well being of all the people of South Africa. I believe that this should be true for me as well. In making this choice I have reconfirmed for myself that it is of tremendous importance to me that I am part of the vibrant, challenging, frustrating, beautiful and above all hopeful country I call home. Each one of my achievements has been accompanied by a tremendously strong sense of being an integral part of something enormously meaningful. That I am an African - and more specifically a South African. Each gold medal award ceremony has been enriched beyond measure by hearing our national anthem and experiencing the unifying surge of joy and elation of the people of South Africa. There is much that remains to be done to ensure that South Africa will be a haven to all its people. I believe that sport serves to aid nation building, that it has the ability to unite people and can be used to work towards the greater good of all. It provides a vehicle that allows every person in South Africa to dream and to "believe in the impossible". I have a place to fulfil in this process. I wish to thank the many role-players who have supported me over the past number of weeks. It has meant a tremendous amount to my family and to me. It has also reconfirmed for me that South Africa is where I belong. While I am significantly poorer today than I could have been, I feel tremendously blessed that it is Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika that will be played if I win a gold medal."

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:10:41 GMT

If the rules are that you have to compete to be part of the national team, the it looks that Shoeman has to make a decision and if he cannot fly in coach, then there is no sympathy here. But swimming is his business...IMHO.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Jeff Commings — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 04:30:48 GMT

Jeff, In Ryk's case... he is competing at the Nationals, so his funding is safe. But, Ryk also lives in Tucson. He moved here about four months ago. And he swam in my lane the Monday after worlds, which means he flew to South Africa from Tucson, the same as Roland et. al. Is Ryk able to afford the trip more than Roland? Or is Swimming SA able/willing to pay for Ryk's trip because he spent two years in South Africa training after Athens? If SA Swimming is anything like USA Swimming, the “travel teams” are chosen from nationals and Olympic Trials. To give elite swimmers a pass would be in violation of rules. We can debate the value of having nationals and Olympic Trials as the selection meet for Worlds, Olympics and other international meets, but as it stands today, at least in the USA, you must perform at the selection meet to make the team. In 1991, those swimmers who went to worlds that January could use those times to qualify for the three international meets being selected that summer, or they could go to nationals and try for a faster time. I remember Eric Wunderlich got picked to go to Pan Pacs in the 100 *** because the time he swam at worlds was faster than the second place time from nationals (even though he swam it at nationals and went slower). I don't think that criteria was used after that year, but it shows there are exceptions that governing bodies are willing to make for the sake of their athletes.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Muppet — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:54:13 GMT

After reading Gull's post You know, that article never quotes RS... I wonder if he is even disgruntled. :dunno:

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Muppet — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:43:59 GMT

I was unaware that Duje had taken Qatar's offer. Scott, I will have to do some more research when I am not at work, but aside from what you have reported on TimedFinals.com (among other news outlets), there's not much else on the web. However, I do recall watching a video in the last couple weeks and seeing his name and "QAT" next to it. There's nothing mentioned of it at the race club's website either.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

knelson — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:02:42 GMT

You've got to figure Swimming SA is a little ticked off that all their big stars are training abroad and this is a way to stick it to them. If that's part of what's behind this, then that stinks. On the other hand, I can certainly undertand why they wouldn't want to foot the bill for all these swimmers. It's the swimmers' decision to train outside South Africa, after all. Maybe part of that decision should be a consideration that they'll have a much more difficult time competing in meets back home.

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

michaelmoore — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 01:55:37 GMT

It is interesting to note in the article that Schoeman paid R51,000 to travel from Tucson (as I can surmise to Melbourne). That is about $7,100 USD. The coach plane fare from San Francisco to Melbourne is about $1,500 USD (and I have the receipts to verify that). The cost to travel from the west coast to RSA is about $3,000 USD in coach. (I have no idea how much it is in business class). It looks like Schoeman likes to travel in Business class (well, so do I) and I can well appreciate it as it is almost 24 hours to travel from the west coast to Melbourne and to travel from the west coast to RSA. If the rules are that you have to compete to be part of the national team, the it looks that Shoeman has to make a decision and if he cannot fly in coach, then there is no sympathy here. michael

RE: Swimmers Getting a Raw Deal

Rob Copeland — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 01:14:11 GMT

But here's what irks me: Why would Roland et. al be excluded from the travel team just because they don't go to nationals? Wouldn't their times from worlds be good enough to put them into consideration? I think they should get an automatic pass.Federation rules. If SA Swimming is anything like USA Swimming, the “travel teams” are chosen from nationals and Olympic Trials. To give elite swimmers a pass would be in violation of rules. We can debate the value of having nationals and Olympic Trials as the selection meet for Worlds, Olympics and other international meets, but as it stands today, at least in the USA, you must perform at the selection meet to make the team. If Phelps chooses not to go to the OT he doesn’t get a free pass to Beijing. Or if Thorpe false starts in the 400 he doesn’t…. never mind.