adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:09:33 GMT

I thought I would provide an update, as I am now a week away from my zone meet. I have been using some of these recommended sets, and have seen some improvement in practice! I did the sprint training version of the 200/100s/50s set x2 three weeks ago, and went 2:30, 1:09, and 30/29ish at the lowest, respectively. Since I have brought the 200 in at 2:24, 100s at 1:07, and 50s at low 28 to 28.0. All from pushoffs. I have gotten 25s down to 13.0 and 12.5. I did the 12 x 100 set on 3:00, and brought them in from 1:07 to 1:04. At my first meet about a month ago, I went 28.0 in the 50 and 102.3 in the 100, splitting 30.0 and 32.4. I also did a timed 500 and went 6:26, with the first 200 at 2:27. So anyway, I think this is working, and I feel faster, especially at shorter distances. I am slated to swim the 50, 100, 200, and 500 free at zones, and also the 50 ***, 50 fly, and 100 IM for fun. The 50 is right before the 500, and the 50 fly is right before the 200, so depending on the heats, I may scratch here and there. Any thoughts on how to spend my last week of prep in the pool? I do not want to rest much--my last (and first) meet I missed some workouts in the last week and I don't think it helped. Felt a little rusty. Thanks so much for the guidance so far. This trying to go fast thing is really fun! Best Red

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:03:55 GMT

Warren, good is a very relative term when it comes to swimming times. I don't know what your times are but I guarantee you there are faster swimmers out there. Would you want them to tell you that you should give up on certain events since you can't get a "good" time? I apologize for being so direct but I think your comment warranted it. About the original poster now...I think he should push himself to take on the 200. Not only will he have another event to throw in his bag of tricks but the endurance gathered from this 200 will likely help his 100 as well. It seems to me that some very good advice for workouts was posted above and I look forward to hearing about your results as you progress. I think you missed my point. What I was trying to say is if the 200 is going to be his best event he needs to improve not only his endurance but speed aswell. And if his speed improves, his 50 and 100 will improve. Since the 50 and 100 have been his best events through out his life, theres a good chance that thoes are still his best events.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:35:05 GMT

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 14:56:56 GMT

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 14:42:30 GMT

I am experiencing the same issues as Red60. In high school, I was a sprinter and now, 25 years later, I can't seem to sprint at all. I just can't get it going that fast. Red60, I don't have the answer for you as I am still experimenting to find out where my current niche is. Right now I'm working on building endurance and swimming only 200s and longer. I started realizing that I can't sprint anymore when I noticed that my peers who left me far behind in their wake on the 50s, weren't so far ahead of me on the 100s. My biggest challenge though is to hold back on the first 50, my mind still wants to sprint so I often find myself in a argument with myself for the first 75 before I settle in and start relaxing. My brain says go, go, go (it's actually more of a panic type scream, sort of like AHHHHHHHHHH) and my body says, hold back, relax and build. :argue:

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 09:06:47 GMT

quicksilver, you're right i didn't know that. wow, to be swimming at all after that is amazing

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:21:41 GMT

You may not know this...but the original poster is making a comeback after a coronary condition...which required 4 stints. A remarkable achievement in itself. When you're younger ...it's one thing to stress your body three, four... even five times a week. Recovery literally occurs after a sound sleep. But in the 40's and 50's...a bit more time between tough sessions may be necessary.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:00:34 GMT

why would that set be done only 2x week at most? i am training for the 100/200 and I do sets like that up to 5 times/ week. granted i haven't seen much improvement in my shorter events. perhaps i've been doing a bit too much engine building

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:32:57 GMT

Quicksilver, I did your suggested set in a multiple of three yesterday, and it felt good. The third time around I felt it, but maintained the pace. I will try the sprint version of the set today or Monday. You're very welcome. Steady swimming will help build the aerobic base for the 200. That same set can be altered to a faster interval when you're ready. (Either on the 2:40 and 1:20... or the 2:30 and 1:15.) Maybe next season. The sprint set will be the real challenge. I agree with Paul about two times a week at the most. I look forward to hearing how the year end goes. Good luck in your training.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:53:42 GMT

I love the throw up/blow chow portion of the workout Paul. That is really the only way to determine if you gave it everything you've got.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:38:07 GMT

Hi Paul, I agree. The set I suggested focuses more towards building some stamina...and getting out of his comfort zone of swimming repeats on the 1:30 schedule. Not really intended for sprint training. I like that set because the 200 can be paced fairly hard...and you can push the 100's knowing that the 50's will offer some active recovery while you retain good form (focusing on perfect technique). Paul's modified version is great for awakening the sprinting muscles. (especially with the season drawing to a close). Swimming fast in practice teaches how to swim fast in a race. And there's only one gear in the fifty. Fast. :agree:

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:05:38 GMT

Okay, got it--I will work with these set ideas and see how it goes, perhaps on alternating days. Quicksilver, I will try your set today. Paul, can you define hypoxic? I remember the term, but not what it means. And secondly, how much yardage generally and/or how many times do you recommend that higher intensity set in a given workout? Twice a week I get, I'm just wondering how far to go. I like to do 3 to 4k per workout. Thanks again! Red

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:19:53 GMT

Red, here's a good set based on your current swimming ability. (1) 200 on 2:50 (2) 100's on 1:25 (4) easy paced 50's on :50 The 50's will bring you back to the top of the clock...and you can start again. They also allow you to get some wind back...and help maintain clean form. You can do this set either two times around... or even three if you feel up to it. 1800 yards is a good set. It will tighten the knotch a bit from swimming at the 1:30 work interval...and help build the engine for swimming a good 200.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Paul Smith — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:46:36 GMT

Although there are a number of people that have posted studies here against the benefits of breath control/hypoxic work.....the fact that every top tier college and USS team uses it works for me.....basically use a breathing pattern of something like 3/5/7/9 by 50 on a longer swim....or use a snorkel. As for yardage.....that is a very subjective thing. I'm considered a slacker (for good reason) but I don't set yardage minimums.....I swim based on what my body is telling me....often times cutting a work out short or taking a rest day because my technique has fallen apart.....as an old fart i simply don't buy into the "more is better" and/or "just swim thru it" thinking. By the way.....today was "fast Friday" here with the Sun Devil masters group: warm up; 600 8 x 50's @ :50 descend 1-4/5-8 Main set: 12 x 200 @ 3:00 (2 fast/1 easy) Or 6 x 200 & 6 x 100s all on 3:00 (2 fast/1 easy)) Or 12 x 100's @ 3:00 (2 fast/1 easy) throw up warm down

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Paul Smith — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 11:12:41 GMT

Quicksilver.....I hate to disagree if he wants to get faster in the 50/100 a set like that would be fine.....on recovery days. For speed/power I would suggest it be modified and swum 2x a week as follows: 1 x 200 @ 3:00 hypoxic 2 x 100's build @ 2:00 focus on fast turns w/sdk 4 x 50's @ 2:00 race pace When coming back into the sport after a 12 year absence I found that because i had stayed in good shape my endurance was fine....but it took a couple of years to get speed back....speed is a function of power and technique and you have to train that to race it. Good luck....

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:58:37 GMT

Posted by Paul Smith: Although there are a number of people that have posted studies here against the benefits of breath control/hypoxic work.....the fact that every top tier college and USS team uses it works for me.....basically use a breathing pattern of something like 3/5/7/9 by 50 on a longer swim.... Paul, I am in agreement on hypoxic sets and I don't think they are a psychological factor as someone else mentioned. The reason I say this is I have definitely benefitted from training my body to swim with less oxygen and I do the 3/5/7/9 sets, as well as 4/9/13 sets (short duration). I find when I am then racing I am able to do so for longer because my muscles are accustomed to training with less oxygen. If I had never benefitted from doing hypoxic sets, then I would have looked for another training tool, but it has benefitted me greatly over years of swimming. Just had to pipe in on this one, sorry if I got off topic..... donna

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:08:40 GMT

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:37:02 GMT

i think should stick to the 50 and 100 becase to get a good 200 you are going to have to improve your speed so you may aswell stick to your best events

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 05:45:58 GMT

Swimmers who live a mile and a half above sea level ...and do hypoxic training ...are not mortals. Kind of like the sherpa people up on Mount Everest who don't need much oxygen. No wonder all the Coloradans clean up at Nationals. ;)

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Muppet — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:39:25 GMT

Red, As for splitting a 200, my preference: 1st 50 - hard, long and strong. take advantage of the speed off the dive 2nd 50 - build to 98% - accelerate into the wall at the 100 so you can... 3rd 50 - ...turn on the jets 4th 50 - hold on for dear life. keep it together on that last flip and bring it home very strong. be prepared to feel like the horse... :dedhorse: barra, i hope you're not reading this ;)

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

some_girl — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:15:45 GMT

Although there are a number of people that have posted studies here against the benefits of breath control/hypoxic work.....the fact that every top tier college and USS team uses it works for me..... Just so you know: I think the point of those studies is that the use is psychological (as opposed to physical), not that they are pointless.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:05:43 GMT

Thank you Donna, Quicksilver, and Flyqueen! These are good thoughts. I have been doing sets of 200s, 150s, and 100s, with some easy/hard sets of 50s plus IM stuff sprinkled throughout. I tend to do the free stuff all on a 1:30 base, and I repeat the 200s on 2:30 to 2:35, the 150s on 1:50 to 1:55, and the 100s between 1:12 and 1:16 or so. I've tried to go to 1:25 for the 100s, but my stroke decays and it doesn't seem worth it. The 50s are getting faster, especially when I do the easy/hard thing I can get a little more explosive and it's more fun. I will try a few of these suggestions--the 50s with very little rest, the 200 and 300 thing, and I'll try to go with a little less rest on the longer distances to see what I can maintain. Anyway, thanks! It sure is great to be able to participate in a forum like this--it really is a service to the sport and the community of swimmers.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:28:02 GMT

Hi Red60; I think your times sound pretty darn fast. And I think the others have given much good advice but if a 200 swim is coming up shortly, I'd certainly be doing repeat 50s with little rest. I always loved the 200s, they were my favorite, but I found I actually tried to swim them like a 50 pace plus half-second, so doing repeat 50s gave me a better sense of what the 200 would be like. Good luck and let us know how it goes. And if you want to get into 500s, there are lots of different combinations for that one which of course includes repeat hundreds, 150s, 200s, 250s. Shorter pyramids are pretty good for this distance, too. 2x250s with increased intensity and rest will help. I also love the 500, I guess I now love anything that takes a long time :rofl:. I also wanted to add that just getting out of the mindset of 50s and 100s and moving into 200s and 500s is part of the battle. donna

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

Former Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:40:26 GMT

I agree with this recipe for the shorter races. Getting stronger with weights and swimming quality speed sets will bring about good results. The 200 can be tough no matter what. Even if your were all sprint in your former life...you can build stamina by doing lot's of 200 and 300 yard repeats.

RE: adapting to a slower 50; approaching a 200

FlyQueen — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:35:57 GMT

I can finish a 100 really strong, but I absolutely die in anything longer, just so you know. My 200s are pathetic. Go for it though! For raw speed you can try the aerobic light plan that many on here advocate, less yardage, but all quality. No garbig yards. Work on technique, still, but focus on speed. Lots of fast swimming - 12.5s, 25s, 50s, and 100s. Ande, anything else?