To breathe or not to breathe:

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:48:50 GMT

I'm trying to get to grips with flips and will do them at steady cruise but I don't like them I sometime go to early and miss the wall, or barely get toes to it. The great fear of course is doing them at speed and clanging my heels... Until I get proper instruction...I'm not willing to risk them at speed. I have enough injury issues... that said my opens ain't bad and I can certainly keep up with my fellow swimmers and sometime out streamline them. I guess there's a trade off for me in how fast I can flip vs how fast I can open and stream out strong. Watch for flips in the FR 100 at zones though...cameras ready! I say go for it Rich! You never know, you may end up starting a new trend in breaststroke turns the way Kajitma (sp??) started a new trend for underwater pullouts at the Athens games LOL! :rofl: Newmastersswimmer

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:38:31 GMT

I'm trying to get to grips with flips and will do them at steady cruise but I don't like them--yet. I sometimes go to early and miss the wall, or barely get toes to it. The great fear, of course, is doing them at speed and clanging my heels... Until I get proper instruction...I'm not willing to risk them at speed. I have enough injury issues... That said my opens ain't bad and I can certainly keep up with my fellow swimmers and sometime out streamline them. I guess there's a trade off for me in how fast I can flip vs how fast I can open, and stream out strong. Watch for flips in the FR 100 at zones though...cameras ready!

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:30:20 GMT

It may or may not matter depending on your personal goals. You don’t need to be a top class competitor to challenge yourself to bilateral breath or do flip turns or swim a 100 or 10K without stopping. A number of swimmers at all skill levels have a goal of improved efficiency, for many of them bilateral breathing is a step in achieving this goal. Rob, in the immortal words of "Cool Hand Luke", What we have here is a lack of communication! I didn't mean you shouldn't improve, or better your times or try and swim with a better technique. I meant that at a certain point there is such difficulty in doing bilateral breathing, if you learned way back differently, that you will be so hindered by trying to bilateral breath that you might lose the rest of the joy and improving other skills in swimming. I know people who learned to swim later in life who will not do a flip turn ever. They have "vertigo" when trying to learn the flip turn. Okay, if I am alone in a lane I will swim 2,000 whatever with all my turns flip turns. But if I am in a group sharing a lane, I have a problem with flipping blind with maybe someone behind me and I just go for the open turn. When we do timed trials or some speed drills with turns, then the coach has the group divided and only one at a time will have the lane. When I swim 1,000 meters in an open water competition in a city close by, sometimes I am the only one in my age group. But I am always wanting to lower my time for that distance. Everytime I swim the local meets I know from looking at the line up what will probably be the results of my age group. But I also know my times for the distance and I am always trying to improve. Lastly, I can move my chin to the left way back, no way I can do that to the right. I can train to get a little better but my muscles and bones are pretty much where they have been for ages. Sort of like which foot goes in the front when slaloming in water skis, snowboarding or riding skateboards or other. You favor one side. You can use the other side, but better stay with the side you favor and got used to. That is what happened in swimming way back. You trained to the side you favored to breathe. Most right handed people breathe to the left...even top swimmers when swimming fast or sprinting use one side more than the other...to each his own...billy fanstone

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:05:09 GMT

Honestly: I am a newbie. I have never competed on any level. Now that's settled. I started swimming freestyle February 2006, at 43. After a kazillion miles of drillwork I finally could do some jagged whole stroke, almost exclusively breathing right. I mixed drills with whole stroke just to learn left breathing, so as of today, I prefer breathing left! Now I have to say to myself: Allright, you had your three lefties now, you have to do something slightly unpleasant for a change. Mhm. To cut it short, I try different strategies, like breathing to the side where the windows are, or something like 3|4, 3|2. I haven't made up my mind yet. Goodbye for now!

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:13:39 GMT

Here is a theory: it doesn't matter much how you breathe once you've left the realm of top class competition. I am talking bilateral versus one side, breathing every two strokes versus three or five, or breathing once you hit the flags and so forth. One other thought is that if your flip turns makes you work too much when in practice, why not just go for the open turn? Especially when swimming three or more to a lane where you are scared you might hit someone on the way out of a flip turn. Here is the deal: my coach is a normal coach in the day time with kids and some promising teenagers (at a private health club, where I live there is no swimming at school level) and so forth. These guys need to learn bilateral breathing, not breathing when finishing a fast 50 once you hit the flags and other tidbits of competitive swimming. But in the evening the same coach will sometimes want us slowpokes to emulate his teenagers. I know how to bilaterally breathe but the efficiency is so bad and such that I tend to sink on the other side and it is just too much of an effort with no returns. I've given up! If I am swimming a 50 free in a meet I will breathe a couple of times going but coming back I will probably breathe on every other stroke. The loss in speed is nothing compared to the sheer breathlessness that I have when not breathing. On buttterfly I try and breathe less up to a certain point because breathing takes such a toll on my form. I think to breathe or not to breathe cannot become a dogma, but each one (not in top class) will find his confort zone. Plus you can always do something which I have yet to do: time yourself doing 50 free with all variables. billy fanstone

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Rob Copeland — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:33:32 GMT

Here is a theory: it doesn't matter much how you breathe once you've left the realm of top class competition.It may or may not matter depending on your personal goals. You don’t need to be a top class competitor to challenge yourself to bilateral breath or do flip turns or swim a 100 or 10K without stopping. A number of swimmers at all skill levels have a goal of improved efficiency, for many of them bilateral breathing is a step in achieving this goal.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 05:49:24 GMT

When I started OW swimming, I was taught bi-lateral breathing to aid in sighting. My USMS coach said that swimming is an aerobic sport so you will need to breath every other stroke. But in training, practice breathing both side (as mentioned earlier all on one side, then all on the other) to ease the strain on your neck. This is free-style only.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 05:34:11 GMT

...every time a swimmer turns the head to breathe, there is great torque on the opposite shoulder. So for us who breathe every stroke, the opposite shoulder is carrying a great burden all of the time... Good observation Donna. I am a bi-lateral breather becuase it was drummed into me when I started swimming competitively. It is comfortable to breathe on both sides now and I am greatful for that because it helps with the achy shoulder issue. When I do longer swims (over 400) I tend to do more one-sided breathing every stroke to get more air; however, I noticed that my non-breathing shoulder would start to ache as I "rested" on it. So, now, I try to switch sides each lap--breathe on one side for a few strokes, then do a three stroke switch and breathe on the other side for a few, etc. This has really helped the "opposite shoulder burden" problem. And, I do feel "balanced" and keep a good role regardless of how I'm breathing, but since I've been doing it for so long, I can't say if it's because bi-lateral is comfortable, or because the roll just feels right. Also, I notice the shoulder stress more in practice than in meets. Me thinks it has something to do with the other swimmers wake--I breathe away from them, but sometimes it feels like I lift the head a little to get over the wake. Any thoughts on this from the peanut gallery? Dana

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

The Fortress — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:11:35 GMT

Lindsay, what's interesting is I am swimming lower in the water than I ever have now and the reason is the mileage, but even with being lower, if a swimmer is breathing only on one side, the opposite arm still has to support them while they breathe for if it didn't, they wouldn't be able to breathe because that support arm would already be on its downward cycle into the pull portion instead of catch portion. Did anyone notice that one of the Australian commentators at the World Championships consistently referred to swimmers as being "high" in the water? In a positive way I mean.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 15:09:06 GMT

I like breathing to one side as opposed to breathing to both sides b/c I feel I can minimize my head movement better that way and keep my body position straighter.....but everyone is different in this regard. I think the head position thing is one of the crucial concerns about breathing b/c your head position is so connected to your entire body postion.....but since you're body is naturally rotating from side to side, I'm not sure why grabbing a quick breath interrupts the body postioning and general flow of the stroke that much in freestyle?? So I'm a little bit like you in this regards I suppose? I like breathing every stroke also and for the same reason you mention here; minimizing head movement, but there is also a downside to breathing every stroke and it has nothing to do with breathing. It has to do with the fact that every time a swimmer turns the head to breathe, there is great torque on the opposite shoulder. So for us who breathe every stroke, the opposite shoulder is carrying a great burden all of the time. But I love the sensation of my body with one-side breathing only and I am rotating both right and left. And I am noticing more and more record breaking swimmers starting to breathe more often than they did in the past years. I am not sure exactly why bilateral breathing seems to be so important; it can't be balance because a relatively good swimmer already has that with body balance, and it can't be to see other swimmers because I can see them underwater. It has mystified me except for the fact that it distributes the torque to both shoulders instead of just one.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

poolraat — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 11:38:39 GMT

It has to do with the fact that every time a swimmer turns the head to breathe, there is great torque on the opposite shoulder. So for us who breathe every stroke, the opposite shoulder is carrying a great burden all of the time. ....... A "friend" of ours would say that if we were swimming with the correct technique there would be no torque on the opposite shoulder. And to some extent I would agree as I think it was partly responsible for my shoulder injury 2 years ago. The pain forced me to learn to breathe to the other side. ....... I am not sure exactly why bilateral breathing seems to be so important; it can't be balance because a relatively good swimmer already has that with body balance, and it can't be to see other swimmers because I can see them underwater. It has mystified me except for the fact that it distributes the torque to both shoulders instead of just one. I agree with this with the exception that a new swimmer or one who has not had a coached, swimming background may not be balanced until they learn to breathe to either side. I definitely wasn't. There was very little rotation to my non-breathing side until I leaned to breathe (comfortably) to either side. Of course, at 55, I am relatively new to swimming. I never participated in organized competitive swimming as a kid, and my only swimming was what we did with the Red Cross lessons and Boy Scouts. I swam my first meet as a 50 year old. My form and technique were very poor until I got help from a coach.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 09:07:58 GMT

Lindsay, what's interesting is I am swimming lower in the water than I ever have now and the reason is the mileage, but even with being lower, if a swimmer is breathing only on one side, the opposite arm still has to support them while they breathe for if it didn't, they wouldn't be able to breathe because that support arm would already be on its downward cycle into the pull portion instead of catch portion. I suppose there is one other alternative to this: breathe fast to reduce the amt of time the opposite arm has to support oneself. But then that moves us into more of sprinting which I don't and won't do anymore. So even though I can't bilateral breathe and swim comfortably, I wish I had incorporated this into my swimming when I was 9 years old. This is a pretty good discussion; thanks for the dead horse LOL.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 06:55:08 GMT

In freestyle, you should roll partway (~45 degrees) to the side with every stroke. If you are not breathing, your head should not move as your body rotates. When you breathe, you upset the alignment of your body some - if you lift your head to breathe, you really upset your alignment, but if you only rotate your head, you may barely change your alignment. If you can breathe smoothly, then you might as well breathe as often as you need to. If you can't, you should try to breathe less often. Videotape yourself, and you should be able to see whether you are breathing smoothly or not. I agree vehemently with everything you say, except: If you can't, you should try to breathe less often. In my humble opinion, you should practice smooth breathing if that's what you need. Fair assumption? :smooch: Make Love, not War.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 06:26:32 GMT

Of course that "friend" of ours would say that it is because of a flaw in the swim technique, but I don't agree and here's why: If a person breathes only on the right side, when they turn their head to breathe, the left arm and shoulder are the support for the entire body during that breath. I suspect your friend would say that you shouldn't have to support your body with the opposite arm. Which might go back to swimming high in the water versus low in the water. But no use :dedhorse: On the other hand, if I breathe to one side for too long my opposite shoulder does get tired. But that is likely due to one of the many flaws in my stroke! :D

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 05:25:58 GMT

Poolrat, Of course that "friend" of ours would say that it is because of a flaw in the swim technique, but I don't agree and here's why: If a person breathes only on the right side, when they turn their head to breathe, the left arm and shoulder are the support for the entire body during that breath. And if a swimmer does this millions of times, that left shoulder takes a beating. Compound this with how long it takes that swimmer to take a breath and there is even more time that shoulder has to support the swimmer. So I think bilateral breathing is a plus in this regard. I tried for an entire year to breathe on the left and I can do it, but I get dizzy after about a hundred yards; I think my neck is not limber enough in that direction. And, it's going to be a long 18 miles for my left shoulder :shakeshead:. donna

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:46:19 GMT

If we are supposed to be, in the front crawl, always rolling from side to side, what are the advantages of not breathing every other stroke or breathing less and swimming straight? Or should we roll to the side even though not taking a breath? Or is is the fact that the moving of your head a little more to take the breath making more drag? I can see the not breathing an issue in fly because breathing breaks the natural porpoising of the body. The more I swim the fly without breathing the faster I go, so I have to dwell with that, but in freestyle what is the deal? Newbie questions again. billy fanstone I see some others have provided their advise on the subject since I first tried to reply to your message. I had some kind of technical difficulties posting my message earlier....but that was more than likely due to the network on my end and not the USMS site....anyway, I saved my original reply so I will just re-post it below....although it says more or less the same things as what globuggie says (with a few extra things sprinkled in perhaps): How much I breathe depends on the distance of the race IMO. I think you swim a little faster and your body position stays a bit straighter when you are not breathing.....Especially on butterfly....On freestyle, I usually can grab a quick breath without much head movement and so I'm not sure how much of a difference there really is between the speed I can swim freestyle without breathing vs the speed I can swim freestyle breathing every stroke (or every other stroke). I usually only breathe once or twice for a 50 (whether its freestyle or butterfly)....I've been told that a 50 is over quick enough that your body doesn't really have enough time to go into O2 debt?? I think its best to not breath when you breakout from a start or turn....I like grabbing a quick breath about a stroke or two before I go into a turn so that I have the air to stay underwater longer on the ensuing pushoff and streamlining (SDK's and such)....then I wait until I've completeing 1 or 2 stroke cylces after the breakout before I breathe again. In a 100 I breath a lot more (probably at least 2 or 3 breaths per 25)....and in a 200 I breathe even more (after the breakout I might even go into a breath every stroke mode until I am about 1 to 2 strokes from a turn again).....I like breathing to one side as opposed to breathing to both sides b/c I feel I can minimize my head movement better that way and keep my body position straighter.....but everyone is different in this regard. I think the head position thing is one of the crucial concerns about breathing b/c your head position is so connected to your entire body postion.....but since you're body is naturally rotating from side to side, I'm not sure why grabbing a quick breath interrupts the body postioning and general flow of the stroke that much in freestyle?? So I'm a little bit like you in this regards I suppose? Newmastersswimmer

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:17:29 GMT

I dedicated my 0-1650 into learning a bilateral breath on every 3rd stroke. I still have much to learn and incorporate into a nice looking Front Crawl. I can do a 25 on 0 and a 50 on maybe 3 breaths... I'm entering the 200 Free (because of the need to do another event that day) and plan to swim it Front Crawl. I figure i'll use the same rhythm and style I do the BR 200. Easy first 100 then bump up for 3rd 50, then bump again for next 25, last 25 bust my gut...I can work on it a little but I've entere a 3min time...as I've not swam competetive crawl. Ever.

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:13:03 GMT

RE: To breathe or not to breathe:

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:09:54 GMT

Fanstone, I find I swim a faster 25 when not breathing, even a faster 50, of course when younger very few breaths for a 100. If I swim a hard 100 now I breathe very little for the first 25 maybe 3 times the next 25 then after that I breathe every stroke for the next 50 because I need air. Breathing breaks the rythme of your swim.