And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:26:14 GMT

So the take home is no more :argue: with our coaches. Only :hug: - but only in a nonsexual manner; unless you're at Stanford, where apparently, more liberal policies are in place. Granted, our masters team does not have a media guide or team records. We do, however, have an annual Holiday Party leaving our poor coach with little to threaten us with. . . I've yet to get banned from that. Wonder what I'd have to do. . . Will report back later on my progress.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:30:19 GMT

Yeah, surprise, surprise.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:51:22 GMT

So - is this right in that Skip got a slap on the wrist as his punishment, er, two weeks suspension without pay?

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

knelson — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:25:58 GMT

I think it was two months, not two weeks. I don't know, the punishment is a little weak, but I hope Stanford made it clear they won't tolerate this kind of thing and if he slips up again he's gone. In any event, I think this event has tarnished Kenney's reputation and maybe that's punishment enough. As some have pointed out, isn't it convenient his suspension will end right when the summer swim camps start which are a cash cow for both Stanford and Kenney.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:23:35 GMT

As to "how does it help the team?" it does'nt, but that is not the concern of the individual doing this sort of thing. It is about control, I have control, you think you can get away with (insert transgression)? I will show you!....effect on team never enters the thought process.. very sad...see it all the time.in business, personal relationships etc...very sad

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

swimr4life — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:45:43 GMT

Its the "all about me" egomaniacal mentality that some coaches can fall into when they become successful. They forget that their swimmers are who gave them this success. Yes, good coaching helps tremendously...but, if your swimmers don't put in the work, they don't perform well. The accolades should be focused on the swimmers, not the coaches.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Karen Duggan — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 02:48:17 GMT

Hi Gull, I didn't think you were defending him :) Your comment just got me to wonder which would be worse- a slap or having my hard earned times expunged? That was all. :drink:

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:32:02 GMT

I've got to go along with Kristina here.....how could his actions in any way shape or form be GOOD for the team? Am I missing something here too?

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

FindingMyInnerFish — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:14:26 GMT

I think being ignored by a coach would be nowhere near as bad as having a coach take away your hard earned times and records! Its unacceptable that a coach would do this... Agree on that! I think though that there's ignoring and ignoring. I go to a masters' workout where the coach is on the aloof side, although he's willing to answer questions and offer advice if asked, and while he will not generally give unsolicited advice, I certainly don't get the feeling he's singling me out to shut me out of communication, just being his normal "on the aloof side" self. I got the sense about this Skip Kenney was that he more deliberately would give someone the cold shoulder after showing attention and interest. I pretty much can get a sense of what to expect from the first type of coach, but I can imagine it could be pretty hurtful for someone to suddenly shut you out. It's how a person does this that I think makes the difference.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:55:02 GMT

Two words describe this type action in vivid detail.... "Classless" & "Vindictive" After reading that Skip is a Former United States Marine I know full well that he intimately understands honor, tradition and awards. Once a Marine is awarded a Medal for valor or honor, unless that Marine is dishonorably discharged from the Corps, his or her Medal/Medals STAND….forever. Why, because they earned them. Do I defend Skip’s actions? HECK NO! As I posted above they were classless & vindictive. Having said that, before I or anyone else pass judgment on this man, I believe with everything in me that people are people, and they are going to make mistakes. Some worse then others, but mistakes none the less and no one is exempt from this. I do not advocate turning our backs on this type behavior, but I believe we should look toward Skip’s “Life's Body” of work before we pass judgment and sentence him. From all I read and hear, over the years he’s had a near unblemished record. I know that Skip understands what he did was wrong…..very wrong….and for any man of honor to come to the realization that he not only harmed himself, but his student athletes, the schools program and tarnished his life’s body of work very badly, my guess and my bet is he is punished enough by that knowledge. I have known men of fine, decent and honorable character in my life that fell from grace through stupid decisions and poor behavior. Some recovered, others did not….and one I know very well still struggles to this day to overcome decisions in his life that he may never overcome. My point is a simple one….Where does this man…or any other man who has made stupid and harmful mistakes find redemption? I hope the names that were expunged are reinstated and I hope and Pray Skip finds a way too forgive himself for his poor behavior. Semper Fi!

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:24:29 GMT

I think it was interesting that you said, "It's not like he slapped a swimmer or something." I think that I would have rather been slapped than to have my times "expunged". That was a reference to Bobby Knight. Hey, I'm not defending the guy. On the other hand, people are rarely (if ever) all black or all white (not referring to race here). Now my high school coach in Houston never gave me the time of day (presumably because, although I worked hard, I was mediocre). I don't believe he was ever sanctioned for that.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:43:57 GMT

I have always been pro-coach even had a couple that walked a fine line to abuse from my perspective, but given what this great coach has done, I am much less forgiving than most of you. I think we have all had enough of coaches who do a terrible wrong and only have their reputations ruined. To me, this isn't enough. One thought is how many years did it take for Bobby Knight to finally lose credability, for different reasons. Please remember, I am originally from Texas and Texas is pretty darn hard on any crime at all. Just so you know where my thinking comes from, we all know Texas not only has the death penalty, but they actually use it, and there is legislation now that if there are 3 witnesses to a homicide, the person convicted gets the express lane, goes to the top of that list. I am not writing this because I necessarily condone what Texas does, all I am saying is we have very little patience for any crime or infraction however small, so this is why I think Kenny deserves a substantial penalty. It will be interesting to see what the findings of the investigation are.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:25:28 GMT

Hi Gull, :wave: I think it was interesting that you said, "It's not like he slapped a swimmer or something." I think that I would have rather been slapped than to have my times "expunged". At that level your goal is fast swimming. Taking times away seems to be a slap. I think Kenney should receive a slap as well. No NCAAs oughta' do it. The most damage has been done- to his reputation. It appears that this has been going on for decades and now we know. It's up to people now what they want to do with the information. I agree a slapping can be defended, but being expunged...you just don't exist anymore (statistically):2cents:

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:19:49 GMT

Hey Gull, How does removing proven records help the team? (I'm being serious and not sarcastic - I'd really like to know). I must be missing the obvious. . . I agree. Is there any more news?

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

swimr4life — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 05:36:23 GMT

I think being ignored by a coach would be nowhere near as bad as having a coach take away your hard earned times and records! Its unacceptable that a coach would do this...

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Karen Duggan — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 04:10:42 GMT

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:16:09 GMT

Hey Gull, How does removing proven records help the team? (I'm being serious and not sarcastic - I'd really like to know). I must be missing the obvious. . . I have no idea. You'd have to ask Kenney. I think he was trying to prove a point (or perhaps he was just being vindictive).

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:00:27 GMT

Why should Heather need an attorney? Are you really suggesting that there were damages resulting from her post? Don't be ridiculous. Punish Kenney for his poor judgment and move on. I think it would be unfortunate if this ruined a long and successful career in coaching. I don't condone what he did, but it's not like he threw a chair at somebody or slapped a swimmer. It certainly would not be the first time that a coach was caught pursuing his own agenda; apparently his was trying to place team over individual. He just seems to have lost perspective. Hey Gull, How does removing proven records help the team? (I'm being serious and not sarcastic - I'd really like to know). I must be missing the obvious. . .

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:53:13 GMT

To hrietz I suggest you get your facts correct, or you will need to hire that TN attorney Why should Heather need an attorney? Are you really suggesting that there were damages resulting from her post? Don't be ridiculous. Punish Kenney for his poor judgment and move on. I think it would be unfortunate if this ruined a long and successful career in coaching. I don't condone what he did, but it's not like he threw a chair at somebody or slapped a swimmer. It certainly would not be the first time that a coach was caught pursuing his own agenda; apparently his was trying to place team over individual. He just seems to have lost perspective.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:56:32 GMT

To hrietz I suggest you get your facts correct, or you will need to hire that TN attorney McLean has NEVER spoken to Chas about Skip or anything else Funny thing though he did get "The Gloves" as a Stanford Swimmer In addition Skip Kenney sent me a handwritten signed note on his personal stationary, which stated "Dear Diane,......your son is a joy to coach".

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Karen Duggan — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:54:06 GMT

Wow, this is something to sink the teeth into isn't it? Thanks for posting those letters, Brian. I'll bring that printout to the pool, from KCBS for you too :) I didn't realize this was still in the news. I too think that there is more to this than just this one incident. I think Kenney pushed the wrong buttons on the wrong person and thought maybe his reputation would protect him (or weather this storm). I know that my husband revered his college coach Bruce Hutchinson at Southern Conn., and was devastated by his death a couple of years ago. There is definitely a special bond in college swimming. It seems to me you either have that special bond, or you don't, and then you are screwed. I feel really badly for the swimmers not having their coach at NCAA's, however if he's really the wonderful coach everyone says he is, they'll do just fine. After all, isn't part of his job to help prepare his student athletes for life and all of its surprises? Surprise!

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:59:57 GMT

My thoughts on suspension without pay were derived because he said he did a wrong thing; if it had not been admitted, then I would not have mentioned pay suspension. But since he already said so, I am still for pay suspension during the investigation. I sure wish this hadn't happened. donna

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:21:21 GMT

That was not the point I was trying to make. My point is that if the guy made a mistake, and he admits to it, punishment is appropriate. However, "expunging" him from the sport doesn't make any more sense than what he did to the records. (In fact it sounds kinda similar.) He still has some great qualities as a coach and mentor, or all these former swimmers and collegues wouldn't be stepping up in his defense. I fail to see any similarity at all actually. The way I see it, the coach being fired would be fair and just punishment for what he did. Do you actually think that what the coach did to these swimmers was fair and just? The coach does not, he openly admits that it was wrong. Did they, the swimmers, somehow deserve to have their records expunged? Unless they were found to be cheating then I don't see any fairness in it at all. As a matter of fact, I think Michael McLean did the right thing by selecting the internship over the summer training. Remember, college is about preparing yourself for life and I think a summer internship is bound to do him more good in the future than swim training in the off season. No? As far as people stepping up to defend him, that means nothing to me whatsoever. Shoot, you can still find people to this day who will tell you that Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Timothy McVeigh, etc...had quality attributes that should not be forgotten. The facts are the facts regardless of what these alumni have stated. I am not saying that this guy is a bad man but I am saying that he has acted in such a way as to lose his privilege to coach outstading young athletes at an outstading school. Almost forgot, I am not saying that he should be expunged from swimming (I am not sure how Stanford could really achieve that without a felonious act anyhow). After he is fired from Stanford there should be no limit on where he can go. Any team willing to hire him should feel free to do so.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:12:52 GMT

Past behavior is a predictor of future behavior. I'm very sorry (but not surprised) to learn that Skip expunged other records. I feel for those swimmers.

RE: And the jerk-of-the-year award goes to ...

Former Member — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:32:06 GMT

I grew up in Indiana and was at Indiana University while Bob Knight was coaching during the Steve Alford, Uwe Blab days. Knight's behavior wasn't an issue then or until much later because he was a winning coach. I was amazed during those winning years what he was able to get away with, with only a couple of technical fouls or an administrative slap on the wrist as a consequence. Knight's feet were held to the fire only after his teams starting losing and his image was suddenly a liability to the university. If Kenney had prior transgressions, I would bet they were swept under the table because he turns out the fine swimmers he does. I'm interested in seeing what Stanford does not that this is out in the open.