Turetski on swimming

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:53:40 GMT

Popov and Klim were sprinters, but they're history now. Look at Cullen Jones' clean hand entry: www.youtube.com/watch Perhaps that's where the legacy of the Russian maverick coach can be traced today. Mail slot precision, minimal waste of energy, focus on forward motion. I don't think Turetski wants everything he says to be written in stone. I wish I knew more about Jones' coach: www.google.se/search Get my morning cuppa :coffee: now, cu!

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 06:28:48 GMT

Popov and Klim were sprinters, but they're history now. Look at Cullen Jones' clean hand entry: Popov may be a history now, but what the HISTORY he and his coach left and the knowedge created! Popov has won 100m free in Barcelona pool twice: The 1992 Olympics and 2003 World Championships. And now think about that. During this 11 year span he qualified as #1-2 every year in the most contested event. How much professionalism, innovation, motivation this coach - swimmer team should have demonstrated. Cullen Jones or another sprinter can break the world record in a 50 free -21.5 - 21.4 sec, but these two accomplishments are of a diferent magnitude.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:05:59 GMT

Another point that Gennadi made several times in his presentation was importance of muscle elasticity. Elastic muscles allow a swimmer to apply less force in forward movement. He said that a body suit enhances the elasticity of muscles. The elasticity decline results in technique deterioration (dropped elbow). My coach in 1940 told us about long smooth elastic muscles. We all had a relaxed forward motion. My greatest harp now, is in the way swimmers use their arms to get the arms forward and the dropped elbow during the catch phase. I have sat through lectures by Coach Silvia and Councilman and they both had different ideas about the swim stroke. I stuck with my coach and did well even though I did not train as all the other swimmers of my time did.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:44:40 GMT

RE: Turetski on swimming

swimr4life — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:46:03 GMT

I agree with you but only because I, personally, believe in Front Quadrant Swimming. Turetski's description is Middle Quadrant swimming Not necessarily wrong. Alex Popov swims this way, but Ian Thorpe (for one) is a Front Quadrant Swimmer. I think I am more of a front quadrant swimmer too. I guess this all depends on what you call "the catch". I ride my "front" arm longer than what Turetski describes.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:54:28 GMT

Is it in the interpretation of where the catch phase begins???

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:30:21 GMT

The one statement he made that I don't agree with was "One hand’s catch and the other’s exit occur simultaneously." I agree...That depends on the individual. Its not how I swim and I watched Popov on one of the links. It looks like he doesn't do it either so...I feel better!:) Which of the videos were you watching? I looked at a couple and the timing seemed to be as described. The definition of "catch" is open to interpretation as it is not an instantaneous event. I would say that with Popov the start of the catch, or the start of the hand movement toward the catch starts as the opposite hand exits. I would agree that timing varies with sprint versus distance, and of course individually. How does your timing differ? I am trying to ingrain the start the catch as you exit/close to continuous propulsion timing so I am curious on this issue.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Rich Abrahams — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:24:58 GMT

According to the drill video I've been studying from the Arizona program, the catch is primarily coordinated with the hips and should be initiated instananeously after the hip drives down and forward. They have several drills to enforce this timing.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:18:20 GMT

Originally Posted by khodko forums.usms.org/.../viewpost.gif During your swim you focus on forward movement, not on forward force. Dmitri, What was he driving at with this point? I can make out everything else beside this one. Kevin, This is my interpretation. Not concentrating on a raw force in swimming seems to be his swimming phylosophy. It likes asking the question "How my body should move through a high resistance environment further and faster with less amount of effort?" He talks about drag reduction, change in a body balance, muscles elasticity ... and then suggests specific changes. I need to listen his lecture again (2 hour DVD) to extract these specific things. This topic confirms how complex is a swimming motion. Good. Always to learn smth new. Dmitri

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:23:00 GMT

swimr4life;86957, "One hand’s catch and the other’s exit occur simultaneously." I'm not sure I agree with this one. I agree with you but only because I, personally, believe in Front Quadrant Swimming. Turetski's description is Middle Quadrant swimming It depends on the distance swam, how strong one's kick is and how long your strokes are. That isn't how I swim free....am I doing it wrong?:dunno: Not necessarily wrong. Alex Popov swims this way, but Ian Thorpe (for one) is a Front Quadrant Swimmer.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:12:03 GMT

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:51:33 GMT

Swim4life are you commenting on her beautiful stroke? I love it as I have said before everyone is an individual and no one swims the same. She is very graceful.

RE: Turetski on swimming

swimr4life — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:04:09 GMT

Swim4life are you commenting on her beautiful stroke? I love it as I have said before everyone is an individual and no one swims the same. She is very graceful. Oh no...her stroke is gorgeous. I was commenting on the first post listing Turetski's opinions. The one statement he made that I don't agree with was "One hand’s catch and the other’s exit occur simultaneously." I agree...That depends on the individual. Its not how I swim and I watched Popov on one of the links. It looks like he doesn't do it either so...I feel better!:)

RE: Turetski on swimming

swimr4life — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:11:38 GMT

"One hand’s catch and the other’s exit occur simultaneously." I'm not sure I agree with this one. It depends on the distance swam, how strong one's kick is and how long your strokes are. That isn't how I swim free....am I doing it wrong?:dunno:

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:28:47 GMT

Just like the Ukrainian women. (My wife, of Ukrainian extraction, made me write that.) -LBJ You are right. One more reason to take part in the Ukranian masters championships 3 - 4 times per year. Turetski didn't say that in his lecture.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Kevin in MD — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:24:59 GMT

During your swim you focus on forward movement, not on forward force. Dmitri, What was he driving at with this point? I can make out everything else beside this one.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:51:47 GMT

As the most beautiful language #3 I would place the Ukranian ahead of the Russian. Just like the Ukrainian women. (My wife, of Ukrainian extraction, made me write that.) -LBJ

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 05:12:09 GMT

Has anyone seen this video youtube.navi-gate.org/ nice thumb position.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 08:11:44 GMT

Leonard, I found that this drill helps to develop another important element of a good dive - "a rigid structure" (arms/body/legs) that enters the water like "a javelin" or "a torpedo". A 99.9% of master swimmers lack this skill probably due to a declinig core body strength. He had mentioned "the rigid structure" several times. I enjoyed practicing this drill although because you improve your sprinting performance without both a physical pain and a taste of lactate in your mouth. Dmitri Nice story, Dmitri. The Turetski thread got one of the best SNR:s (signal-to-noise Ratio) ever recorded on the forum :p I'm trying the start drill soon. The three most beautiful languages, spoken word or music: Portugese Italian Russian

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 07:24:05 GMT

Nice story, Dmitri. The Turetski thread got one of the best SNR:s (signal-to-noise Ratio) ever recorded on the forum :p I'm trying the start drill soon. The three most beautiful languages, spoken word or music: Portugese Italian Russian RecreationalSwimmer, Turetski, like a few good coaches, has a unique ability to observe and communicate key points of swimming which may seem trivial but make you think. And to experiment that adds to the fun of master swimming. As the most beautiful language #3 I would place the Ukranian ahead of the Russian. However, the Russian music is richer because we are deeper thinkers. (A deep thinker is that who asks himself "Why am I so sorrow today?")

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:42:28 GMT

Ian it has been my thought for years to have the thumb away from the index finger. So many swimmers think by holding every thing tight and close together they are grabbing more water. Not only do you not get more water it causes muscle tension in the forearms. Thanks again Dmitri for bringing this forward. Some one some where talks about the thumb as being the only part of the human arm/hand appendage that works like a bird's wing. If you keep your thumb spread from your other fingers, you will creat lift. My thumbs are set so low on my hand they barely get up to my fingers. I naturally swim wiht my thumbs seperated from my hand. I have a lot of webbing between my thumbs & hands also. When I have on gloves, I can really feel the difference.

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:28:16 GMT

I'm sure we will get into a war about technique shortly as a result of the original post, but I didn't want this point to get lost in the resulting mayhem. Simply put, this is a brilliant drill. It is brilliant for 2 reasons: 1) It teaches transfer of momentum to extend the horizontal glide - that's obvious. 2) Less obvious is that due to the shallower angle at which one hits the water, it causes the hole you make when you hit the water to be bigger, thereby forcing you to concentrate on getting the hole as small as possible to extent the glide. Both points would really help someone starting off the blocks. If I were a sprinter (I'm not, thank God), I'd practice this quite a bit. Just my $0.02. -LBJ Leonard, I found that this drill helps to develop another important element of a good dive - "a rigid structure" (arms/body/legs) that enters the water like "a javelin" or "a torpedo". A 99.9% of master swimmers lack this skill probably due to a declinig core body strength. He had mentioned "the rigid structure" several times. I enjoyed practicing this drill although because you improve your sprinting performance without both a physical pain and a taste of lactate in your mouth. Dmitri

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:54:33 GMT

I'm sure we will get into a war about technique shortly as a result of the original post, but I didn't want this point to get lost in the resulting mayhem. Simply put, this is a brilliant drill. It is brilliant for 2 reasons: 1) It teaches transfer of momentum to extend the horizontal glide - that's obvious. 2) Less obvious is that due to the shallower angle at which one hits the water, it causes the hole you make when you hit the water to be bigger, thereby forcing you to concentrate on getting the hole as small as possible to extent the glide. Both points would really help someone starting off the blocks. If I were a sprinter (I'm not, thank God), I'd practice this quite a bit. Just my $0.02. -LBJ I estimate the actual worth of your 2 cents to be approximately 1.793 cents LBJ....but its only a rough approximation I admit LOL!:D Newmastersswimmer

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:46:43 GMT

A javelin thrown from the deck enters the water through a hole and glides in a horizontal direction without any unnecessary force it is rigid. In the pool Gennadi showed a start drill that I found very good for the development body as a rigid part and learning to forward your energy to the other end of the pool. You put one foot on the edge of the pool and the other leg kneels on the deck and push off. You should be able to do a long horizontal glide. I'm sure we will get into a war about technique shortly as a result of the original post, but I didn't want this point to get lost in the resulting mayhem. Simply put, this is a brilliant drill. It is brilliant for 2 reasons: 1) It teaches transfer of momentum to extend the horizontal glide - that's obvious. 2) Less obvious is that due to the shallower angle at which one hits the water, it causes the hole you make when you hit the water to be bigger, thereby forcing you to concentrate on getting the hole as small as possible to extent the glide. Both points would really help someone starting off the blocks. If I were a sprinter (I'm not, thank God), I'd practice this quite a bit. Just my $0.02. -LBJ

RE: Turetski on swimming

Former Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:15:12 GMT

It depends on the lever action, are we using arm muscles to make this lever work or is it those great big muscles in the back? The muscles in the back are what we use.