How to improve SCY times?!

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:36:52 GMT

Those are awesome tips! I am going to try the mid-pool drill as soon as I am allowed to return to the pool. Yes, I went to the doctor yesterday and found out that I am sick, and better to stay away from exercising too much for at least a month. And because what I have is super contageous, I'd better stay away from the pool too. :shakeshead: Just when I am getting faster eveyday, I have to get sick NOW!!!..Ugh! :frustrated: I can't wait to get wet again!!! Stay Wet, -Anlynn

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:48:48 GMT

Jeff, thanks for helping out on my turns/push offs. Those are really helpful tips! I hit the fitness room 6 days a week (I swim everyday except Tuesday when I have classes all day), and do weights 3 times a week. My workout schedule is something like: Monday distance swim + weights Tuesday no swim I do yoga + hiphop dance practice + squad jumps Wednesday distance swim + weights Thursday Stroke/Drills/Sprint + cycling/running + squad jumps Friday Stroke/Drills/Sprint + yoga lesson Saturday Stroke/Drills/Sprint + weights + cycling/running/rolling Sunday IM/Drills + cycling/running/rolling + squad jumps I do abs exercise every night before going to bed. My workout is pretty much planned about my classes, I get to do a little more when I am not terribly loaded with projects and papers. Jeff, as you mentioned, I am planning to increase some dryland workouts just for my legs. I am a pretty fast kicker, but just doesn't really work with underwater dolphin kicks. Hopefully I'll get faster. :applaud: I love your quote by the way, well..though I prefer something other than sharks, maybe dolphins? :wiggle:

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:07:25 GMT

Again I must apologize for my ignorance, but what are: SCY, SCM, and LCM? Thanx,:bow: Bill

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Muppet — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:11:27 GMT

Again I must apologize for my ignorance, but what are: SCY, SCM, and LCM? Thanx,:bow: Bill Bill: SCY - Short Course Yards SCM - Short Course Meters LCM - Long Course Meters (Same as the Olympics)

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Muppet — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:59:05 GMT

The other thing is my backstroke turns (well..which is just like a flip turn except push off on your back) are just miserable sometimes. lol. I can't seem to get off the wall fast or powerful enough and have trouble holding my breath for the under water dolphin kick right after the turn. Anlynn, I think a lot of folks struggle with keeping enough air to do a decent SDK to start off a leg of backstroke. Most folks exhale out their nose as they turn or while on their back to prevent water from going up their nose. Some thoughts You may be blowing out all your air as you turn. This may be uncomfortable, but you can try a few flips w/o exhaling at all to get familiar with exactly when and where the "water up the nose" feeling starts and stops. Then try exhaling only during that time on the flip. On the less extreme side, but simiilarly, exhale slowly as you flip, trying to save some air for your SDKs. Also, a lot of folks on here a few weeks back were talking about a nose clip. That will help keeping in air as you flip (since you won't need to exhale), and you can save all your air for exhaling as you SDK off the wall (through your mouth). As for you power off the walls, there are a lot of things you can do. On your next business trip, hit up the hotels "Olympic" sized pool and just do streamlines/turns. Since there's really no room for swimming, just practice getting a tight streamline off each wall, especially after a turn, and getting a strong push off each wall. I like to push off on my side with my feet about shoulder width apart and pointed about 45 degrees away from either straight up or straight across - I find I get some good torque when I twist onto my stomach this way. Also, any spinning/running/biking and a few trips to the weight room should help with your leg power.

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:14:34 GMT

Thanks so much for all your comments! They've been really helpful and you are right, my turns are something I always need to work on. I think that my flip turns are actually pretty efficient, but I do have poor push offs sometimes. I am now trying a new flip turn--the one that Karylyn Pipe-Neilson (sorry for spelling her name wrong) wrote about in SwimmingWorld, spread you legs before you place them on the wall to push off. It was kindda awkward first, and I am slowly getting used to it. The other thing is my backstroke turns (well..which is just like a flip turn except push off on your back) are just miserable sometimes. lol. I can't seem to get off the wall fast or powerful enough and have trouble holding my breath for the under water dolphin kick right after the turn. I have been working on this ever since I got back in the water. :dedhorse: No wonder my backstroke is my weakest stroke after all. Any more suggestions on that? Thanks again. Stay wet, -Anlynn

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:27:23 GMT

I agree with Hoffam...SCY is almost all swum under the water. Consider the 100 back as an extreme example: 12-15meters off each wall and you have less than 10 yards of swimming per lap! So 60% of the race is underwater! Now of course this doesn't apply to the distance races (as most distance guys come up at the flags), but swimming SCY at least doubles your turns, making them twice as important. My advice would be to work both in and out of the wall. Think of it as throwing a tennis ball against a wall, the harder you through it the harder it bounces off. So the harder you go in, the more momentum you have coming off the wall (but remember that momentum will be wasted if you aren't in streamline!!;)). Dont be lazy and glide in, attack the walls and you will see results. Think about that as you warm up and do your sets. Maybe even do some sets where the you are only going hard from the flags in and out. Or just take some time at the end of your workout to do a few good turns.

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:11:08 GMT

All the emphasis on turns is good. I think it worth pointing out just how much difference there is between LCM and SCY. I read an article (I can't find it right now) that say a 50 race in SCY only involves about 35 yards of actual swimming. A dive eliminates between 5-10 yds, the approach to turn maybe 1-2, and the push off the turn can eliminate another 5+ yds. A 50 in LCM is probably a 40+ meter race. This article pointed out that LCM places a premium on long, efficient stroking. SCY racing places a premium on power and good turns. So some other things to think about: - train for more power in SCY - do more high quality sprint sets - consider slight faster turnover in SCY races, especially short ones, because you can afford to with 10% less wall to wall distance and even less actual swimming - make sure you are not losing speed in the approach to the turn

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:58:05 GMT

I'll jump in with Streamliing. I do a front crawl and a very pedestrian rate but I work my open turns and streamline hard with no kick and come up well past flags...a little kick I'm halfway down the pool before I come up. I'll only attest that I was lane sharing with a guy swimming much faster than me but who had a very short underwater portion. He flip turned and pushed off, whereas I streamed on an open turn and over took him and held a lead for a short period. Obviously he may not care...probably just swimming for the exercise, and not worried about conserving energy or such. It just gave me a great first hand proof of how important it is to streamline.

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:14:02 GMT

I just want to re-emphasize what rtodd said about getting into a tight streamlined position as soon as possible off of each turn as well as doing the underwater dolphin kicking.....If you have time idguru, check out the videos that Ande and Paul posted on the SPL SDK thread and the American Short Course Champoinship Thread of Ion Crocker's 100 free final and 100 fly prelim race....He is the KING of streamlining and underwater dolphin kicking!! Newmastersswimmer Amen! Ian's underwater DK, put in my own words, is non-human! :notworthy: He has insanely perfect streamline and DK. I am always in awe whenever I see him easily crosses the short course pool using only underwater swimming. He makes it seem so effortless and like reaching the other end of a bath tub. :bow: Alright, guess it's time to really work on my turns and DKs! Stay wet, -Anlynn

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:05:54 GMT

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

poolraat — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:43:21 GMT

I do mid-pool swims a lot. It's great for that added turn practice. Starting from a dead stop without a push off from the wall is also a good way to learn how to get to speed as quickly as possible. This came in handy for me when I missed a turn in a 100 free last year, just barely got my toe on the wall but had no push. Even with the missed turn I came in only about 1 sec. slower than my best time. One of my favorite sets to work on turns and sprinting is "2 turn 50's". Start in the middle of the pool. Sprint into the wall and do a fast turn. Swim to the other wall for another fast turn and sprint back to the middle of the pool. You can do 75's and 100's this way too. I like 50's so you can practice your turns with speed. You can add difficulty to these by starting from a floating position. Really makes you have to create a lot of force/power to get going.

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

swimr4life — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:00:31 GMT

One of my favorite sets to work on turns and sprinting is "2 turn 50's". Start in the middle of the pool. Sprint into the wall and do a fast turn. Swim to the other wall for another fast turn and sprint back to the middle of the pool. You can do 75's and 100's this way too. I like 50's so you can practice your turns with speed. You can add difficulty to these by starting from a floating position. Really makes you have to create a lot of force/power to get going.

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Muppet — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:51:28 GMT

The videos are a great tool to use too. Those guys are fast for a reason. I love it when the olympics come around because you get to see all the TV coverage of these fast guys and see how they do it. Imitation of what they do is a good way of learning. Glad you like the sig - and yes, I would also much rather swim WITH the dolphins than AWAY from the sharks, but sometimes that just the way it happens ;) Chomp Chomp! Happy Laps!

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:19:08 GMT

Wish we could still delete! Ooops!!!!

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

Former Member — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:13:33 GMT

I agree with waves.....SCY and SCM has a lot do do with the turns. Where as LCM relies mainly on swimming. Work your turns in practice and get some advice from a coach or another knowledgeable swimmer on how to do them properly!!!!

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

swimr4life — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:13:54 GMT

Anlynn, I have the opposite problem! I've noticed that distance swimmers tend to do better in long course than sprinters. I think that may explain part of your long course advantage. I agree with waves 101....TURN,TURNS and more TURNS! Get a coach to watch your turns and give you advice on what you need to work on. You may need to work on increasing your leg strength to get a better push off the walls. Wall sits, squats and plyometrics can really help with your power off the turns.

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

waves101 — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:18:54 GMT

One possible contributor to slower SCY times might be your flip turns. If you have slow turns or a poor push off it might actually take more time than your unabated swimming. You might want to focus on making your turns faster. (Just one possibility).

RE: How to improve SCY times?!

rtodd — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:10:11 GMT

Turns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The big thing I need to remember is getting my arms streamlined VERY quickly. You have to be streamlined BEFORE your feet touch the wall. That way you waste no time and you jet off the wall.....no plowing trying to get your arms streamlined. Figure on dropping one second per turn when done correctly.