Melbourne 2007

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:21:58 GMT

I so excited for melbourne. There is alot of hype suronnding this competition exspecialy with hacket and jensan talking smack about each other. And it seems like this meet is very unpredictable, any thing could happen. Only thing gaunteed is phelps doing well. it should be interesting to watch.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:54:05 GMT

Laure Manaudou is slated to swim 9 individual events among them the 1500 and the 50 back. On a good day she is likely to win the former and has an small outside chance in the later. Were other swimmers in history that versatile ? Shane Gould (she hold the free 100 - 1500 WR at the same time I believe) and to a certain extend Michael Gross (from 100 Fly to 800 SCM ) come to mind any others?

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:36:14 GMT

Just over a week away...

RE: Melbourne 2007

FlyQueen — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:17:18 GMT

Shirley Babashoff was extremely versatile ... Katie Hoff has trial cuts in every event, the first woman to do so ... Phelps is obviously EXTREMELY versatile ... Coughlin, too ...

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:24:48 GMT

World records can be set in a time trial with only 2 people swimming?.... or swimming alone? Wow...as much as I love Popov, Hall, Erving and Biondi...that doesn't seem fair. I'm surprised FINA allows that. Swimming in wide open water without the "wave" off the start and turn gives them a definite advantage. But heck if FINA allows it, we should have more time trial swims!!! As a novice here is my view. I don't neccessarily argue with Beth but just quote her b/c her comment fostered my thoughts. In regard to "records." If we allow unnatural tampering e.g. Shaving, Fastskins, to gain advantage (by unnatural I mean altering the body's natural state--not cheating). I think all Records should be allowed; even if one single person swims alone unfettered. My point being why allow the addition of a "wave" to slow them down when everyone's doing little things to eradicate the drag? If we want to see how far the human body can go in water, then a single swimmer, hairy or shaved head to toe, fastskin or naked if they so wish should be able to do it and have the record stand. For me a record is a record against a time, not another person. Who really cares if it's America, Russian, Australian, or whatever. Provided they did it drug free that's all that matters to me. Rich

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:05:35 GMT

It did make the PanPac heats much more fun to watch.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:59:56 GMT

I don't remeber hearing about world champs trails. Are they not having trials this year?

RE: Melbourne 2007

Frank Thompson — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 12:08:16 GMT

quote from gary hall jr "Popov swam his time in a time trial. I think that there were two other swimmers in the pool. It was at the Olympic trials meet for 2000. I have had a few people tell me that the time wasn't legitimate, the other swimmers times were .3 faster than they had ever been before or since, Popov's time being .3 faster too. I don't know how to respond to that. Roland proved that a 21.6 is possible, there is no disputing that he went that time. (shrug). I'll beat either one of them if they step up on the blocks next to me. I'll go the time it takes to win." Sounds like the clock started .3 late. Warren: Your avatar bias is starting to show with that last sentance about the clock starting .3 late. I know Gary Hall Jr. probably does not agree with how the WR was set and I respect that. However I take issue with this because all Popov was doing was swimming a time trial like everyone before and its not his fault that he broke the record because the FINA Rules & Regulations allows him to do this. This is no different than when Rowdy Gaines went :49.36 to break the World Record and that was performed in a time trial. Time Trial opportunities are still going on in fact I saw a LC Time Trial listed in the American Short Course Championships in Austin, TX that Ande swam in so opportunties are still available for everyone to do this and its unfair to criticize someone for taking advantage of there opportunties. www.theraceclub.net/.../viewtopic.php

RE: Melbourne 2007

Frank Thompson — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:57:36 GMT

Warren: The selection meet for the 2007 World Championships was the 2006 Conoco Phillips Nationals that were held on August 1-5, 2006. What is unusual about this is that the 2 swimmers selected from the trials meet were not necessarily guaranteed spots on the World Championship team. At the 2006 Pan Pac meet in Canada, the USA could have up to 3 additional swimmers in the qualifing heats and if they beat the 2 swimmers selected by the team in the Nationals/trails they would be eligible to swim in the World Championships. You could actually not place better but do the best time from the Pan Pac meet and beat out the top two swimmers of the Nationals/Trials or from the semi finals and still make the team in that event. Jessica Hardy is an example of this in being the 3rd fastest breaststroker from the USA in the semi finals and then in the consolation beating the top two from the USA to make the team. Another example is that Natalie Coughlin won the 100 Fly at Nationals and elected not to swim it at the Pan Pacs. Oppuntunities were there for 2 or more swimmers to post a better time than hers and make the team. No one did that so she is still on the team in the 100 Fly. I don't ever remember a qualifing meet set up like this. Usually the top two at the Trails meet go and if one swimmers decides to scratch then the next swimmer moves up. Years ago it used to be 3 swimmers. I think not having a World Championship Trials meet was a good decision this year because the meet starts in the middle of March and it would have conflicted with the NCAA Championships and USA Grand Prix events which would not be helpful to any of the swimmers because they would be tired after a long trials meet and the travel accross the world and they might have not performed adequately because of the lack of rest and to many meets.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:18:41 GMT

Warren: Your avatar bias is starting to show with that last sentance about the clock starting .3 late. I know Gary Hall Jr. probably does not agree with how the WR was set and I respect that. However I take issue with this because all Popov was doing was swimming a time trial like everyone before and its not his fault that he broke the record because the FINA Rules & Regulations allows him to do this. This is no different than when Rowdy Gaines went :49.36 to break the World Record and that was performed in a time trial. Time Trial opportunities are still going on in fact I saw a LC Time Trial listed in the American Short Course Championships in Austin, TX that Ande swam in so opportunties are still available for everyone to do this and its unfair to criticize someone for taking advantage of there opportunties. www.theraceclub.net/.../viewtopic.php You can't deny that the situation described leaves a little uncertanty.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:22:41 GMT

From the Melbourne 2007 website (which really does have some interesting stuff) come a great illustration of a cultural divide: they are running a poll on site that asks "Who are you most looking forward to see at the Opening Ceremony Saturday March 17?" The choices are- Shannon Noll Ian Thorpe Christine Anu Natalie Bassingthwaite... Doh? Naturally I voted for Ms. Bassingthwaite!

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:51:33 GMT

everyone in the heat dropped .3. that doesn't happen

RE: Melbourne 2007

FlyQueen — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:15:25 GMT

Are you actually questioning Popov? He is the man. I know he and Gary Hall Jr don't get along, but Popov was amazing. He is a legend, and I do not doubt that record for a second.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Frank Thompson — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:58:40 GMT

I don't want cullen jones to break the american record in the 50 free but I wouldn't mind schoeman going 21.63 and beating the fastest time in disorganized competition to erase popov from the books. Warren: What do you mean by a disorganized competition? He set that record in the evening session of the Russian Olympic Trials on 6-16-2000 in Moscow. Now if you mean that he did it in a special time trial before the evening session finals, then yes it was not in the finals of the 50 meter Free, but he did meet all the standards set forth by FINA is SW Rules Sections 11, 12, and 13. He specifically followed Rule 12.4 because that is key for time trial World Records to count. There have been many competitons where swimmers in both Swimming and Masters have not followed this and been denied a World Record. As long as FINA allows this, then I don't see a problem with it. If Federations don't like it, then they must petition FINA to change it. In the last two years, both Tara Kirk and Ian Crocker have gotten records in time trials. Crocker's was a World Record in the 50 Fly and Tara Kirk's was an American Record in the 200 Yard *** and both records were performed University of Texas pool in Austin, which is the site of the 2008 USMS SC Nationals. I am going to provide a link to this discussion we had about a year ago and Tom Jager response to the breaking of the record. forums.usms.org/showthread.php www.fina.org/.../swimming.php www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../1528.asp

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:44:49 GMT

RE: Melbourne 2007

FlyQueen — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 03:20:17 GMT

I really like Gary Hall Jr., however consider the source. Obviously he is more likely to be upset or suspicious about the time than someone else. Look at Amanda Weir this year in the 100 she dropped considerable time from her pervious best to grab a new American record. It can happen. Popov has certainly proven he is one of the best sprinters of all time, it's not like a Brita Steffen came out of no where to get a WR. That all being said, Gary has certainly been able to step up when it counts and beat those guys. I'd love to see him on the Beijing team, too.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Frank Thompson — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 02:05:27 GMT

Beth: This has always been a controversial issue dating back to probably 1984 when Peter Williams broke the World Record in the 50 Meter Free swimming all alone. This has also been a controversial issue back in the 1950's and 1960's when the USA Olympic Team would have time trial swims to determine who would make up the Relays for the Olympics. Today that is not done but the Coaches set the critera in advance or so we are told and there is a lot of disagreements with how this is done. Topic for past and future threads. From my understanding of reading the FINA Rules, you can swim alone or with as many people as you want. You must follow all of the rules including that 12.4, so that everyone that wants to swim a time trial, has the ability to. No Swimming Federation has come forward to challenge this and get it changed. So it looks like Time Trial World Records is here to stay. Also, you have to remember that USA Swimming allows this and there were attempts besides Tara Kirk at Austin last year at the American SCY Championships. So if we as a Federation allow it here, I don't think it will change no matter how many people complain.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Frank Thompson — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 01:13:01 GMT

everyone in the heat dropped .3. that doesn't happen Warren: When you say everyone in the heat dropped .3 is a little confusing. Alex Popov was the only person swimming from my understanding. Now if you read the link that I provided, you will see that others have dropped beyond .3 in time trials. In 1981, William Paulus did a time of :53.81 to break the World Record in the 100 meter Fly that was set by Par Arvidsson of :54.15 set in 1980 in a time trail after the meet was over. In that same meet he did a :54.34 to win the individual event but was .53 from the time trial World Record. When swimming alone, yes I agree that a time trial swim will be faster with all of things discussed on the thread I linked. In the 50, especially with the start that can make up for a lot of time. For instance at the 2000 Olympics, both Anthony Erving and Gary Hall JR. had .14 and .10 advantages in the Reaction Times from the blocks on Alex Popov and Hoggie and I believe this helped the pair to the Gold Medal stand. In 2003, a year before the Olympics, Popov went :21.99 and :21.91 at the 2003 World Championships in Spain. There is nothing that could not convince me that he could not go .28 seconds faster with a good start and swimming in an empty pool. Empty pool meaning no swimmers and not empty water. That last statement was a quote from Gary Hall about Popov getting the World Record in an empty pool. I would have to agree with Fly Queen that I think his swim is legitimate and that the Russian Swimming Federation did not do any wrong doing and he should get credit and have the World Record until someone comes along and swims faster than :21.63 and that can be done as of now either in a Meet or a Time Trial. In 1989, Tom Jager had the Word Record of :22.12 and set that at the Pan Pac meet in Tokyo, Japan. In the Nashville swims against only one other swimmer, one or two lanes apart, very much like a time trial setting, he went :21.81 in his final swim to reduce the World Record by .31 seconds, which is very similar to what Popov did in his reduction in time. The only difference is that Matt Biondi was a couple of lanes over in there final TV swim match and went :21.85 to also break the old World Record. This was the only time in swimming history up to this point that two people broke the :22.00 barrier. At the 1992 Olympics, Alex Popov was the first swimmer to break the :22.00 barrier in a competitive meet going :21.91 and it would be 8 years before any swimmer would do that again. Shortly after Popov set the World Record in June of 2000, both Gary Hall Jr. and Anthony Erving went :21.76 and :21.80 at the 2000 Olympic Trials to be the only swimmers at that point to go under the :22.00 barrier. In the 2000 Olympics in the tied Gold Medal swim both swimmers swam a :21.98 for the win, which was .22 and .18 from the previous swims. So its realistic to have a variance of .30 and not be suspect.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:35:14 GMT

The whole thing. I'm excited for the whole darn thing, even the 1,500 :joker:

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:25:04 GMT

How about Cullen Jones? I'm stoked to see what Cullen does! He has so much potential, it'll be awesome to see how he reacts to competition on a big scale. Hoff and Myers in the 200 IM is gonna be a great race too. And as always I can't wait to see what Michael and Ian will do....their my boys :) It'll be fun to see if Zeigler and Peirsol can close in a little more on Janet Evans record in the 1650.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:04:17 GMT

I think both Peirsols will have a great meet. posted by FlyQueen That comes as a real shock to me coming from you Heather...LOL!! :dedhorse: :thhbbb: Newmastersswimmer :banana: :banana:

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:22:54 GMT

In women's breastroke Liesel Jones has ruled, smashing world records; now there is rumour of a hot new Russian girl Ludmilla Amphibimova to challenge her. Already there are rumours of genetic tinkering; I attach a picture from a local meet in Pondsk (her home town)- she is in the far lane, click on the thumbnail and see what you think...

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:13:33 GMT

I hope cullen jones beats roland schoeman again. It seems like roland has been asleep for a while I wouldn't be surprised if he comes up with something big.

RE: Melbourne 2007

knelson — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:38:37 GMT

Nathan: are you going to Melbourne? If I recall correctly your wife made the team in both breaststrokes.

RE: Melbourne 2007

Former Member — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:13:56 GMT

Id like to see katie hoff get a wr in the 200 im but its not going to happen. I don't want cullen jones to break the american record in the 50 free but I wouldn't mind schoeman going 21.63 and beating the fastest time in disorganized competition to erase popov from the books.