Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:39:52 GMT

Let's be honest the 200 fly is a bit short ... sign up for that short little 500 free and do that fly, then the mile ... Last year, one of my friends on my college club team did the 500 free all fly as a dare. I think he got a free dinner out of it - totally not worth it for over ten minutes of torture.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Allen Stark — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:26:41 GMT

If you are really pushing the 100s they should take longer to recover. You should be swimming the 100s fast enough to be using more anaerobic metabolism than in a 200 and that takes more time to recover from.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:07:29 GMT

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

poolraat — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:57:42 GMT

Interesting thing with the 200IM. More observations about swimming IM in my workouts. Yesterday was a combination of 100 and 200 IM swims. Can someone tell me why I can swim a 200 with less misery and pain than the 100? I did the 100's around 1:30 and after each, hang on the wall gasping until I go again. The 200's are at a slightly slower pace, around 3:05-3:10 and I don't feel nearly so wiped out after.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

FlyQueen — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:53:50 GMT

Isn't that why backstroke is swum after fly, so we can recover?

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

poolraat — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:23:28 GMT

Although I think Rich was joking with his response, 100 IM's sometimes wipe me out more than 200's too because (my whacked out theory here) there is less 'space' between the fly. You know, you only get 3 laps of other stuff to recover in between the fly on 100. On the 200, although you have a 50 fly all at once, you get 6 laps of other stuff to recover. :-) (Spoken like a true-non-flyer and someone whose backstroke doesn't go fast enough to be anything but a recovery stroke...) Rich is giving me a bad time because on another thread I mentioned using the back to recover from the fly.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

aquaFeisty — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:14:15 GMT

More observations about swimming IM in my workouts. Yesterday was a combination of 100 and 200 IM swims. Can someone tell me why I can swim a 200 with less misery and pain than the 100? I did the 100's around 1:30 and after each, hang on the wall gasping until I go again. The 200's are at a slightly slower pace, around 3:05-3:10 and I don't feel nearly so wiped out after. Although I think Rich was joking with his response, 100 IM's sometimes wipe me out more than 200's too because (my whacked out theory here) there is less 'space' between the fly. You know, you only get 3 laps of other stuff to recover in between the fly on 100. On the 200, although you have a 50 fly all at once, you get 6 laps of other stuff to recover. :-) (Spoken like a true-non-flyer and someone whose backstroke doesn't go fast enough to be anything but a recovery stroke...)

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Muppet — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:11:36 GMT

swim fly when you are tired, Although this was said in jest, I think this is a good idea; that last 25 of a 100 (esp LCM) can be a killer. Or it can be where one overtakes his/her more fatigued competition. I will often do a 50 fly for time off the blocks to finish off a practice. I know my form is off a little bit, but at least I have practiced managing an efficient and effective fatigued fly. :dedhorse: FlyQueen, you've been FeistQueen lately ... Is it all because of V Day? Perhaps someone needs a vday meal after the fact next week...:drink:

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

poolraat — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:50:00 GMT

What?! I had to read that twice. How can this be? I usually guesstimate 10 seconds per hundred or so ... What kind of fins are you using? Fins + wicked SDK usually = speed. Maybe you have a better breaststroke kick than you thought? Fins (zoomers) + weak-a** kick equals no difference.:rofl:

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

poolraat — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 05:30:52 GMT

Whatcha using those things for? I hate zoomers (except maybe the finis 2, which I had but lost). They're like having stubs for feet. If you're going to use fins, use real fins or those split cut fins for a more natural kick. Forget it, just get the darn monofin. I think it's really helped my SDK. The monofin better be here by my b-day next week or I'll be writing something on the "Women are Trouble" thread. :joker:

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

The Fortress — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 04:59:25 GMT

Fins (zoomers) + weak-a** kick equals no difference.:rofl: Whatcha using those things for? I hate zoomers (except maybe the finis 2, which I had but lost). They're like having stubs for feet. If you're going to use fins, use real fins or those split cut fins for a more natural kick. Forget it, just get the darn monofin. I think it's really helped my SDK. As for FlyQueen's soliloquoy, :rofl: , FlyQueen, you've been FeistQueen lately. I'm expecting you any minute to make those "cheaters" at your practices do 500s flys with no fins on the 6:00 ... Is it all because of V Day? Mine was the same as yours. :rofl: Or were just describing what's going to happen to Jim-Bo when he really gets back in shape and starts cranking out those 200s?

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

FlyQueen — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 04:51:16 GMT

I totally disagree swim fly when you are tired, the more your shoulder hurts the better - don't stop until the clicking sound is replaced with a much louder ripping/tearing sound. For good measure keep swimming fly until there is nothing left to rip or tear and/or your arm actually falls off of your body. Then you know you have gone through enough pain to swim a 200 fly. Let's be honest the 200 fly is a bit short ... sign up for that short little 500 free and do that fly, then the mile ... It's all fun and games until someone tears a tendon ...

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:58:33 GMT

bring out your inner animal ande I did just that in training, unfortunately my inner animal turned out to be just a Hamster on a exercise wheel...

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:56:40 GMT

Good news is I think my fly isn't as bad as my back LOL I felt ok with the Fly, I was undulating just over and under the surface, or it felt like it. I didn't worry about the kick I let it happen. Just tried to get my chest going down with my arm entry, butt up, and then hips down on on the recovery before the hands left water again at the start of the pull. posted by Little Richard...LOL!! Sounds like you are slowing transforming into a distance butterflier....You mentioned in an earlier posting on this thread I believe that you were starting to get the timing and momentum going with your fly....Sounds like my evil plan to convert all breaststrokers into butterfliers is really working :thhbbb: .....LOL!! Newmastersswimmer

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:48:28 GMT

OK I am back. I have discovered 2 things. All strokes other than *** are silly and life threatening. Also, I can do 100IM in 1:25 -1:30 I was too busy staving off the aneurism to look at the clock clearly!! That 125 drill was the hardest thing I've done. I had to quit after 4 reps. Good news is I think my fly isn't as bad as my back LOL I felt ok with the Fly, I was undulating just over and under the surface, or it felt like it. I didn't worry about the kick I let it happen. Just tried to get my chest going down with my arm entry, butt up, and then hips down on on the recovery before the hands left water again at the start of the pull.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

The Fortress — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:43:06 GMT

Interesting thing with the 200IM. I did a set a few days ago, 1st 2 with fins and doing dolphin kick on the *** leg, and last 2 without fins and legal kick on *** (NO BUTTERFROG!). There was no difference in time between with or without fins. What?! I had to read that twice. How can this be? I usually guesstimate 10 seconds per hundred or so ... What kind of fins are you using? Fins + wicked SDK usually = speed. Maybe you have a better breaststroke kick than you thought?

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:11:51 GMT

20 years ago I would have said, "what's the big deal with a 200fly?" I did that and the 400 IM in almost every college swim meet. Now I think a 50 is too long. They should have a 25 fly in masters!:rofl: As someone who can't swim back or *** worth beans I view the 100IM as an opportunity to do a 25 fly. :D

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

poolraat — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:13:59 GMT

I'm staying flat, not rotating to the side as in free, and no problem keeping hips and feet up, it is just that the arm motion in the water feels like free. I still practice it even though I'm not comfortable with it. One thing I add to this is the thumb drag. That does 2 things, keeps the recovery low and close to the water and also helps to keep the arms in the palms up orientation in the 1st part of the recovery. Interesting thing with the 200IM. I did a set a few days ago, 1st 2 with fins and doing dolphin kick on the *** leg, and last 2 without fins and legal kick on *** (NO BUTTERFROG!). There was no difference in time between with or without fins. Whatcha doing there? Are you rotating like you would on freestyle so that when your right arm is flying your left arm/shoulder/side is facing the bottom of the pool? Don't be rotating. Try to keep your chest and stomach facing downward toward the bottom of the pool while you're doing the drill. Also, are you bending your arms as in free or are they flat as in fly? If you keep everything flat and chest press, it should work. If you have trouble, use fins to keep your feet up and that should help you stay flat. I like the one arm drill quite a bit. You can do it with your soon-to-arrive-monofin too. I also read it is Ian Crocker's favorite fly drill. It's very hard to stay flat in fly. It takes a lot of core strength and power. If Paul comes back, maybe he can give you better tips. Chlorini: Whoops, I guess I was just engaging in distracting *** dissing with the Smiths. Rich knows I'm joshing ... partly. I have a flesh and blood breaststroker/IM-er in the family who can now bust my chops in the 100 IM with her superior third length. I won't even go into the 200. I'm still working up the courage to try it.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

The Fortress — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 07:53:53 GMT

I could never get this one. I don't breathe forward but to the side and it seems more like a one arm free with a dolphin kick drill than a fly drill. Whatcha doing there? Are you rotating like you would on freestyle so that when your right arm is flying your left arm/shoulder/side is facing the bottom of the pool? Don't be rotating. Try to keep your chest and stomach facing downward toward the bottom of the pool while you're doing the drill. Also, are you bending your arms as in free or are they flat as in fly? If you keep everything flat and chest press, it should work. If you have trouble, use fins to keep your feet up and that should help you stay flat. I like the one arm drill quite a bit. You can do it with your soon-to-arrive-monofin too. I also read it is Ian Crocker's favorite fly drill. It's very hard to stay flat in fly. It takes a lot of core strength and power. If Paul comes back, maybe he can give you better tips. Chlorini: Whoops, I guess I was just engaging in distracting *** dissing with the Smiths. Rich knows I'm joshing ... partly. I have a flesh and blood breaststroker/IM-er in the family who can now bust my chops in the 100 IM with her superior third length. I won't even go into the 200. I'm still working up the courage to try it.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:55:01 GMT

You haven't seen my fly... you're much better off getting tips from a VAST number of others on this forum than me! :) All I meant by avoiding crappy fly is if you feel like you're doing the vertical fly (lurch head up, *gasp*, feet graze bottom of pool, plop head down, attempt to kick, lurch head up, *gasp*, etc...) switch to something else! You can go 15 m underwater. Maximize the start and the kick and minimize the actual amount of fly you have to do! :D P.S. - I did the shoulder exercises and core stuff Monday and Wednesday. Thanks again for the info! Today I am very sore, though if it is from the exercises or the buttload of snow I shoveled, I don't know! I don't struggle that greatly...if I keep my head down, and don't worry about the breathing it feels better, and I get a few strokes where I actually feel like I'm hurtling along. It may of course, look like comedy to everyone else. This side of Zones. It's will be a matter of get to the backstroke ASAP. I do a put 25 aroun 18 secs...give me a dive and a handfull of SDKs. Two or 3 pulls and I'll be on my backstroke leg. Its just to complete the event.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:38:21 GMT

Good luck with your workout, Rich! Remember that if your butterfly starts to fall apart on the 125's where the 50 is fly, it is MUCH BETTER to switch to 1-arm fly or even freestyle than to practice crappy fly!! I only have crappy fly...1 arm is worse. How far am I allowed on the underwater part. If I make 12.5 Yards is that too far? Weren't you suposed to commute and coach me tonight in exchange for my PT tips? ;) I'll let you off b/c of the snow...hehe

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:36:04 GMT

SwimStud Here's a workout that I do occassionally. It's out of a workout book by Doug Garcia, coach of the WSU masters. I've modified it a bit. Also, I don't use a board for the kicking or a buoy for the pulling. Build a 100IM Doug Garcia, WSU Masters Warm-up 200 free 100 kick 100 pull Main set 2 x 100 Kick – no board 1 x 200 free 4 x 50 fly 1:30 2 x 100 free 1:45 #2 – pull 4 x 50 back 1:30 300 free 4 x 50 *** 1:30 2 x 100 free 1:45 #2 – pull 1 x 50 free easy 4 x 100 IM 1:35/2:30 150 free easy Cool down 100 choice easy That looks good for after my "Voyage of Discovery" tonight.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

swim4me — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:19:54 GMT

I could never get this one. I don't breathe forward but to the side and it seems more like a one arm free with a dolphin kick drill than a fly drill. I also do the drill this way, but my arm is more of a one-arm fly with a side breathe, than a one arm free with a side breathe. My arms move differently out of the water on fly and free.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 06:16:44 GMT

I also wanted to say that I originally pointed out that having a good breaststroke is helpful not to discourage the many of you who don't like it but to encourage Rich since he started the discussion and is a good breaststroker. I'm encouraged. Tonight I do my time test for IM and work on the IM. Here's my plan for after 900 of Front Crawl 200, 100x4, 50 x4, 25x4. 4x25 SDK 2x100IM for time 8 x 125 IM 4x25 FLY+dives 4x25 BA+turns Turns/breakouts 200 FC The 125's will be with 50 focus moving along. Starting with 3:00 int and may lower it if I am OK. Unchartered territory. Wohoo.

RE: Wanna do 100IM Tips gladly accepted please.

aquaFeisty — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 02:01:59 GMT

Hey Fort, Thanks for the warning! Yeah, last night, I was thinking to myself, "That was really dumb to have shoveled that snow... it always melts eventually..." Ah well. Got another round of antibiotics and a steroid nasal inhalor from the doc yesterday. Am feeling very hopeful and might try to get back in the water tomorrow. There's a meet on Feb 25th I'd like to hit. Absolutely nothing longer than a 100, though!