Cheating at practice?

RE: Cheating at practice?

poolraat — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 12:11:54 GMT

I got to workout with a team today and saw firsthand all the different ways to cheat. Now I know what to do when the set gets too hard or I just don't feel like working hard. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

RE: Cheating at practice?

FindingMyInnerFish — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 06:15:53 GMT

Fish - Exactly what arm movement was the coach trying to get right? Backstroke involves some shoulder roll and a much deeper placement of the forearm pull than the three inches (max) of depth you would get in a lane line pull. Have to admit it's been a long enough time ago that I don't remember now the underlying purpose. Has anyone else's coach asked him/her to pull the lane line as part of a practice?

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:55:49 GMT

Not clear whether you meant are or aren't, DB. I'm thinking you meant "aren't." But everyone seems to think I'm sorta cheating even when I don't kick much with the darn things. I'm OK with being a cheater. Cheatin's fun. Besides, I now take the liberty of making fun of people that use paddles. I wish I had a GP swimming in my lane like Cruise. That's an unfair advantage. I think it's cheating. Alternatively, I could order one of those custom made suits with the words "Frayed labrum alert: don't mess with me or risk BickerFest on it." Might be worth the investment. Are we allowed to speak of suits yet? ;) (I'm sure someone will say no ...) Oops, I mean't fins AREN't cheating, was typing faster than I was swimming again. And, I don't cheat on my breath control sets; I just change the pattern slightly so I can manage the set, so that ain't cheating; it's called changing the set:thhbbb: Donna

RE: Cheating at practice?

Muppet — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:23:44 GMT

i think it's more of a problem if swimmers are cheating after practice (or before) ande Amen, Brother. I rarely pull on lanelines during backstroke, but I almost always do 1 hand touches during IM sets. Oddly enough, any time I want to go fast (or am doing a sprint, I do it legally. :banana:

RE: Cheating at practice?

Donna — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 04:38:39 GMT

Guilty as charged. For me it is using Paddles and Bouy or as of today Fins. Unfortunately I am between 2 lanes speed wise. I am too fast for the group holding the 1:40 base but can barely make the 1:20 base interval. I tried to move my lane to 1:30 but there is only one other person who can handle it and he is not always there. Since lanes were so crowded today I opted to move up to the 1:20 group and add fins. Basically I am just not trying to make waves. Donna

RE: Cheating at practice?

Redbird Alum — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:34:11 GMT

That thing about pulling on the lane lines: my first masters' coach had me do that as a backstroke drill for getting the arm movement right. Fish - Exactly what arm movement was the coach trying to get right? Backstroke involves some shoulder roll and a much deeper placement of the forearm pull than the three inches (max) of depth you would get in a lane line pull.

RE: Cheating at practice?

poolraat — Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:00:40 GMT

i think it's more of a problem if swimmers are cheating after practice (or before) ande If you're cheating after practice, you must not be working hard enough during practice and therefore you must be cheating during practice also.:joker:

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:01:28 GMT

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:53:26 GMT

I don't usually beat my lanemates ... usually being the key word there and I almost never beat drop-ins ... posted by FlyQueen Well Heather, that is very comforting to know....I guess I can feel somewhat safe now about dropping in for a practice or 2 if I'm ever in the Chicago area.....LOL!:joker: :groovy: Newmastersswimmer Jim judging by those arms.. looks like you've only been beating yourself! :eek: :laugh2: :rofl:

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:51:18 GMT

RE: Cheating at practice?

FlyQueen — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:24:32 GMT

When I first started masters (and having known only the age group mentality which was very anti-cheating), I was taken aback by all the modifications and things that may be considered "cheating." But, then I slowly started to realize that everyone had different objectives, injuries, physical limitations, schedules, etc., and I now just marvel how dedicated these masters are to make the effort to swim and get into the pool. It now truly does not bother me when lanemates need to add fins or swim free during IM or whatever to join in on the set. What does bug the heck out of me? People who swim while highly contageous (like with bronchitis for example). Arg! Don't they care that they are infecting everyone in the pool!? I make an effort to stay away when sick. :frustrated: I think I still have a bit of the age grouper mentality. I don't mind modifications, I mind just standing there against the wall, especially when you are in the way. If you are sitting part or even all of a set out move to the side don't stand in the middle of the lane or wall. The other day during warm-ups three of my favorite lane mates & people were standing talking all over the lane which made it nearly impossible to swim. I don't care if you don't want to do the set or warm-up, just don't prevent others from doing it. I think that's rude.

RE: Cheating at practice?

ande — Wed, 14 Feb 2007 03:44:51 GMT

i think it's more of a problem if swimmers are cheating after practice (or before) ande

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:51:47 GMT

Sounds like Heather and I would be duking it out as to whether we should do a breastroke or butterfly set...

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:13:53 GMT

and I almost never beat drop-ins ...;) It sounds like showing up hungover would not be wise. :drink:

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:00:24 GMT

I suspect she will be a swimmer..she spent all of last summer in the water with us. But alas, she is only three right now. All in due time I suppose.

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:41:33 GMT

Now, this I totally agree with. No USS swimmer should ever cheat. Age groupers are totally different. They may change events over the course of their career and the best advice is to listen to their coaches, try different events, follow the practice and do what your coach tells you. Whether you're young or in the "senior" group, which seems to have a flexible meaning. (Although I guess if age groupers are injured, then they may need modification too. They might be "sentenced" to the kicking lane for instance or denied paddles. Although I frankly think pre-hab is undertaught in USS swimming.) But that's not masters. Matt: You finally changed your avatar. I like that one a lot! Yay! I have never seen any of our senior team using paddles, fins, or pull buoys. Come to think of it, I don't recall them using kick boards very often either...rarely I suppose. As for the avatar, that was the younger of the two kiddos trying to mimic me at a swim meet this summer. She's a real card that kid.

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:37:26 GMT

It drives me NUTS when teammates just skip out on a part of a set. Especially when they are okay. Cramps or other non-tired pain is acceptable if it is severe enough. I had a teammate stop me during a set the other day because she didn't want to do it and thought that since she wasn't doing the set I shouldn't ... I almost punched her ... :dedhorse: :dedhorse: :dedhorse: Note to self...never do any drop in swims with FlyQueen. :D

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:22:19 GMT

I can't speak for USMS workouts but I have seen cheaters in our age group senior team cause a lot of grief for other swimmers. Just recently, a swimmer was not performing a set as assigned and the coach picked up on that. That already tough sprint set has now turned into an impossible sprint set. Somehow I doubt many USMS swimmers would buy into that though. You are adults, if you want to modify a workout that is fine. Remember, the coach is not paying you but rather you are paying the coach.

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:54:46 GMT

"Pulling on the lane lines" never, ever occurred to me (I'm so new at this). Would you all talk slower, I'm trying to take notes here. ;)

RE: Cheating at practice?

Former Member — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:40:01 GMT

I try not to cheat, but sometimes it just happens. I never do a one-hand touch for fly or ***. I'm trying to get in the habit of doing flip turns in practice, but I still sometimes get too tired or just forget. I never purposely pull on the lane lines - don't want to start bad habits that would get me DQed. If I'm swimming with my team, I usually only modify sets if I start missing the interval (I'm the slow one in my lane, especially for distance free). If I'm alone, I'll modify every set to what I feel like doing that day. I do have a tendency to leave a little too early on non-free sets and sprinting sets - even with a 5-second gap, I'm usually catching up by the end. After all that, I feel like we should all be saying, "Hi, my name is ________, and I'm a cheater in practice."

RE: Cheating at practice?

FlyQueen — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:03:32 GMT

I almost never cheat. I've done a u turn like Donna to get around someone slower, I do this in meet warm-ups more than in practice since I generally swim with people around my speed. I don't pull on the lane lines, I don't one hand touch, and I almost never modify a set. Ever so often I'll do *** pull fly kick on the *** leg of an IM set or I swim free ... :D but that's usually to catch up to my lanemates ... breaststroke serves no purpose in my life ... :dunno: I'm a purist for the most part, I don't modify intervals or sets unless I ask the coach and they've either underestimated me or overestimated me ... Last week a coach gave me an interval for a set of 100s back that was better than my PR so I had to change that ... I do one arm fly past teammates on fly sets and hate every second of it ...

RE: Cheating at practice?

FlyQueen — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:10:44 GMT

I don't mind the leaving early, if done between sets, or if it has to be in the middle as long as you tell your lanemates and coach ahead of time. I've had to leave early from time to time and I think it's always better to leave early and go then to have not gone at all ... I don't usually beat my lanemates ... usually being the key word there and I almost never beat drop-ins ...;)

RE: Cheating at practice?

The Fortress — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:03:23 GMT

Skipping out a 50 or 100 from time to time is fine, especially if you get out of your lanemates way. You only hurt yourself when you do that, but my theory is why go to practice if you don't want to work hard? Fort, injuries are a different thing altogether ... I agree. When I go to my team practice, I know I'll be super exhausted after because I'll push myself hard. Plus, who wants to be teased for being a whimp? But I guess some people like to socialize. I socialize in the hot tub. ;) My Sat. practice is tough. I don't usually go. We swim with the college team and the college coach and it's sometimes 6000+ LC. Not everyone stays for the full torture session. At least if I leave early, I'm not disrupting a set or interval. And, most importantly, I do not disrupt anyone or kick anyone doing butterfrog.

RE: Cheating at practice?

FlyQueen — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:55:41 GMT

FlyQueen: Youch. I don't skip out on sets or skip a swim. I may miss a 50 very, very occasionally because of a cramp. I skipped the 800 paddle/fin set at my team's practice on Sat. because I had already done 4000. I can't go more. Don't yell at me. Can a babysister yell at their big sis? But I don't get it, why should you stop just because she is? That makes no sense at all. No, she actually reached over to my lane and grabbed me to stop me on a backstroke set that she didn't feel like doing it ... I don't like when people just don't feel like swimming a set because they are tired. I only wanted to punch said teammate because she wanted to be lazy and she wanted me to be lazy with her. I didn't want to swim the set either but did anyway. Skipping out a 50 or 100 from time to time is fine, especially if you get out of your lanemates way. You only hurt yourself when you do that, but my theory is why go to practice if you don't want to work hard? Fort, injuries are a different thing altogether ...

RE: Cheating at practice?

The Fortress — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:46:55 GMT

I have never seen any of our senior team using paddles, fins, or pull buoys. Come to think of it, I don't recall them using kick boards very often either...rarely I suppose. As for the avatar, that was the younger of the two kiddos trying to mimic me at a swim meet this summer. She's a real card that kid. Awww... I guess she takes after her Dad! How old is that one? Is she going to be a swimmer like big sis? I don't think my 6 year will be ... I think I'm one for three on USS swimming -- which of course is fine. My one swimming daughter doesn't use equipment too much either. I think that's better. All her coaches have had shoulder injuries and they are acutely aware of issues relating to that. Their "kicking" lane is not really a lane per se, and definitely does not involve kickboards. Since I'm "generally" an equipment hater, she's used to hearing my views as well.