muscular endurance

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Wed, 07 Feb 2007 11:30:51 GMT

We don't have electrical problems here just the computer crashes all the time here in Melaque Mexico. So i post when I can. I donated 5 - 40 min swim lessons to help raise money for children with special needs here. They bid on all kinds of items. The guy who won the bid cannot swim he starts his lessons tomorrow. They raised a little over 120,000 pesos on the auction. I have no idea what he bid for the lessons. What a great cause.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:38:54 GMT

To George, Fortress, and others: I am glad to know that I am not the only one who trusts my training and apply it without thinking about it to a race; I let myself totally go and let my body do what I have taught it to do on race day. I think if I had to remember a time when I was thinking about my swimming during a race, it would have to be a thought when I realized I had taken the race out way too fast and had the beginning thoughts of realizing I was in the process of "dying" before the end and getting ticked off that I did such a thing. But even in the example above, I learned from it and spent more time on race pace sets and I have never had such a thing happen again. I miss all of you; our electrical power is a bit better this week; but internet is worse because everyone is using the same company and they have added no band width; I almost have another birthday everytime I try to log on. We are working on trying to get internet restored in our home. I sure miss you all. I am training more for the Utila swim than the triathlon swim because my relay has fallen apart twice already. Will wait and see what we put together at the last minute. Your friend, Donna

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:17:19 GMT

That would be awsome to be sponsored by a beer. If I could have a beer sponsor it would be the Anheuser Busch company and I would wear a custom Natural Light fastskin.

RE: muscular endurance

Muppet — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:01:12 GMT

Fort, I think constantly about my billion dollar endorsements and nothing more ... Sounds like you need to hit up the downtown Chitown clubs where all the rich banker sugar daddies are hanging out after work. :groovy: at the very least, they may be able to sponsor your beverage consumption that evening. :drink:

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:45:35 GMT

But George, think of the slogans possible...'The beer that really kills your thirst!'...

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 08:45:47 GMT

Don't be like me and get a beer sponsor, then 16 people die from drinking their beer. That was the end of my being sponsored by Dow Beer.

RE: muscular endurance

poolraat — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 07:24:08 GMT

Don't be like me and get a beer sponsor, then 16 people die from drinking their beer. That was the end of my being sponsored by Dow Beer. With a name like Dow, the first thing that came to mind was the chemical company and the pesticides we used on the ranch.

RE: muscular endurance

FlyQueen — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:36:30 GMT

Didn't the super talented Ian Thorpe say, when asked what he thought about while he swam say, something like the last song he hears on the radio gets stuck in his head and that's what he sings during practice. I think I've heard this from Phelps, too. Thorpie also said that when he raced he didn't know what he thought about he was on autopilot. During my brief races I just think go like hell, don't breathe, and kick. Sometimes I like to back off of the kick too much. I think there is a time and place to think about technique, like when you are tired and it falls apart, during warm-up or drills, otherwise, BORING! I also think Donna is right on with race pace sets. I HATE E1 sets they make me want to gouge out my eyes, let's swim easily then rest for 30 seconds, I don't see the point at all ... unless it's recovery ... Fort, I think constantly about my billion dollar endorsements and nothing more ...

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:54:25 GMT

Donna you have hit the nail on the head. Even when I raced I thought of everthing under the sun and not technique. I thought a lot about where I was placed in a race, who was still in the water, who was out of the water, I would visulize my children. The only thing I wanted to know occassionaly is how many strokes a minute was I doing, when should I pick up my stroke pace when should I slow my stroke pace. My technique was put on automatic. In rough water should I roll more so I can breathe, not once did I think about the feel of the water, sometimes the water was so cold you could not feel anything. When it came down to the finish how far did I have to sprint or could I just swim in.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:28:31 GMT

"something" Finally, yay! :smooch:

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:27:30 GMT

I know this topic was about muscular weakness in the arms and without the person feeling anaerobic, but it sure has grown from there. To me, if a swimmer is not as strong as they need to be for whatever distance they are swimming, and they feel it, they need to strength train and/or get into better condition. I think this is a no-brainer. Or, maybe they are trying to swim a distance that they are not accustomed to so they will feel weakness and fatigue on that event. As swimmers, most of us all know what our weaknesses and strengths are. I know I am aware of this because I am always aware of how I feel when swimming; swimming is sensory for me and it is a total, complete waste of time for me to think about swimming; I almost think that some people here are over-analyzing swimming to death and are missing the point of swimming with fluid movements. And fluid movements are developed with lots of swim time, some slow sets to continue correcting poor technique, race pace sets (I do these more than anything else) to have the stamina to continue correct technique. A beginner swimmer of course must think more about technique and coordination, but as a swimmer progresses, I have seen more good technique than poor and I think it downright foolish to "constantly think" about it. What fun is this and once a swimmer starts thinking about it, will they ever be able to stop this process and let their training take over? And, the swimmer will take a long time to ever "feel" the feel of water if their brain is going 9-0. And I think all swim devices have their place in swimming; sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. I do a lot of Under/Over drills for kicking which require no board; other times I use one. I just re-started swimming two weeks ago; swim M-W-F so far each week. Going only about a mile or mile and a half right now, but within my designed training, Wednesday is distance day. Wednesdays are a 1 mile ocean swim followed by half-mile of sprints. On the other 2 days, I am doing timed swims that are all 325 yds followed by breathing patterns and half-mile sprints. Times are a falling fast and stamina is being developed. Next week, will start swimming 4 days a week, etc. Will be adding another mile to each workout next week. My point is: constantly thinking about each little component of swimming may actually defeat the purpose especially on race day. On race day, I have gone through all possibilities in my head for weeks before, and when the buzzer goes off, I let my training take over and swim the event. I guess I trust my training enough to let my body follow what it worked hard towards. Maybe some of you should at least think about the training you have done and trust it also. Donna

RE: muscular endurance

The Fortress — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 04:03:03 GMT

And fluid movements are developed with lots of swim time, some slow sets to continue correcting poor technique, race pace sets (I do these more than anything else) to have the stamina to continue correct technique. And I think all swim devices have their place in swimming; sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. I do a lot of Under/Over drills for kicking which require no board; other times I use one. Donna I don't know how you are living without power! Insane. Being a night owl, I would have to buy scads of flashlights. With all the drilling and thinking and asking of ande that I've done, I'm sure my strokes are all perfectly fluid now. :rofl: I "work" on technique a lot actually, using my new ande-inspired aerobic-lite training plan. I never count strokes though. (Oh, wait, I did today when I was doing 25 flys. I kicked under water the max distance and then took 3-4 strokes to the wall. LOL.) I think, but then I race without thinking or at least without thinking about technique. I might think "go faster," "don't breathe," "how'm I doing?", etc. There is a difference, I think, between thinking and analyzing everything 24/7. But to each his own, as everyone seems to agree. I'm all for Unconscious Competence too, especially when racing. It's gotta be automatic or natural by then. I'm glad your shoulder is better and that you are getting in shape for your upcoming triathlon. We wouldn't want any nasty cliques beating you! Also wanted you to know that I am enjoying my new monofin toy. :D Go forth and build endurance!!!:banana: Miss you here. You should really live in a more civilized place. FlyQueen: I am very one dimensional and shallow. I only think about beating my secret nemesis and SwimStud and some other unnamed person. I should think more about making $$$$$.

RE: muscular endurance

Muppet — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:54:11 GMT

at goerge mason, they have a sauna near the deep pool. one of my team mates discovered the simple pleasure of heating up the old g-maximus by leaning against the window before diving in. i have to admit...i followed suit though i don't know that it made me swim any faster. They were out of commission at both SCY, LCM zones' and the sprint meet this fall. UMD has a sauna too - not sure if they have it open during meets; However, this sounds like a pretty good idea. I will be trying that out next time...:banana:

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:19:12 GMT

You may have noticed I said warm shower - not a hot shower however did use hot towels on my calf muscles and thigh muscles.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:33:28 GMT

I've posted this before,but I can't find it. In the late 60s they did an evaluation of regular warmup vs. long hot shower. The long hot shower group did statistically better,although many were surprized as the felt weak standing on the blocks. Of course this was back in the dark ages before we knew how to do a real warmup:dunno: at goerge mason, they have a sauna near the deep pool. one of my team mates discovered the simple pleasure of heating up the old g-maximus by leaning against the window before diving in. i have to admit...i followed suit though i don't know that it made me swim any faster.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:04:26 GMT

...the quick rubbing gets my heartrate up slightly and the excitement builds... Dude...you can't tee me up like this! It isn't fair when I have to be PG. :eek: Seriously though heat works, provided you don't overdo it to the point of inducing sleepiness. I think I've said I do hot shower and stretch out a bit then cool the water down over 30 seconds so that I don't get a shock when I enter the pool. Works for me.

RE: muscular endurance

Allen Stark — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:20:59 GMT

RE: muscular endurance

Muppet — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:51:11 GMT

Does heating your muscles before the race give any advatage? I do rub my hands up and down my thighs, calfs and hammies while I am waiting behind the blocks. It helps me "warm up," getting the muscles warm so they're ready to go, plus the quick rubbing gets my heartrate up slightly and the excitement builds, and then up on the blocks and GO GO GO!!! :dedhorse:

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 07:45:05 GMT

Dave did your coach ever put a rope infront of you with knots in it to do isometric contractions, we did this because we had very little pool time. A great thing to develop muscle structure in the arms and back. Now I use a ladder with the palm, fore arm and elbow to do dryland when I cannot get to the pool, pressing on the each step for seven seconds. Warren warm muscles are better than cold muscles I never warmed up in the pool, only in the warm shower. It may be the wrong way to go it may not.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:26:45 GMT

He said the strength is in the center. You do not see mountain climbers using two ropes, the both hands are lifting the body by one rope with the hands close to the body. I don't know that i would agree with this analogy. Certainly while carrying heavy objects (ie:600 lb. granite counter tops) the only possible way to do this is to engage both arms in the task and center the load as to distribute it evenly. chin ups and pull ups are typically done with a shoulder width or wider grip. double ropes are often employed in climbing sports (rock, ice etc). Using a rope to ascend is usually reserved for situations when a more aesthetic option (free climbing) is not possible. in a perfect situation (climbing a ladder) the arms would follow a shoulder width "track" naturally.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:00:34 GMT

Always up early 4:30 am for my 3 or 4 mugs of coffee. Have to do some Video analysis stuff early each day while the fight for internet connection is not too hard. Then 7 minutes per video and to send back replies. And occasionally look at this forum and give my short statements. I swam my first race at 5 years of age 68 years ago, my coach Jimmy Thompson had us pulling down the center line of the body way before any other coach did. He said the strength is in the center. You do not see mountain climbers using two ropes, the both hands are lifting the body by one rope with the hands close to the body. As time went by I worked on refining my stroke to a point that I found to be easy. I had may problems getting in pool time when younger as our club only had access to the pool 1.5 hours 3 days a week and the club had 200 members. As I became older I did lots of work swim training playing water polo until 18, When I got sick with Infectious Mono Nucleousis after that it was weakness and fatigue for several years. I continued to workout very lightly and play waterpolo until 1958. It was difficult for me to compete with these guys who were training 5,000 to 10,000 yards a day but I stayed at it did well - rated in the top 10 sprinters in the world. My stroke was better suited for distance swimming but was not able to workout enough to race those kind of races. I had always taught swimming as a child our club used to teach lessons on Friday nights, The Friday night swim club, kids paid $1.00 to have lessons for 26 weeks (pretty cheap even in those days). In 1962 someone asked me if I would help him get ready to train for a 15 mile race and found that I no longer felt tired when pacing him so started to train for marathon swims. I still get swelling of the lympth glands when I work out but it has not been like when I was 18. Wow I am becoming long winded.

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:48:50 GMT

Fortress my friend Mike who swam for U of Michigan always said you have to have heart and what he meant was no matter the adversity it's you guts that count. I looked at a race that was upcoming at McGill University Montreal some great swimmers from the USA all boasting times of 47and 48 seconds for the hundred. I told them that this is the slowest pool in Canada and I would beat them in by doing a 52 second 100yds they laughed and they started their preperation trances. I joked around and told them I was going to warmup in the shower, that the water was to cold to warmup in. I wrapped my legs in hot towels and I told them I let 2 miles of water pass over me and that was all I had to do. I dove in and did a 52 second flat 100 and won. Does heating your muscles before the race give any advatage?

RE: muscular endurance

Former Member — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:48:27 GMT

Sorry Terry I should not have commented like that I have removed that. I realize you are quoting documented facts. But rather than what others have to say I want to hear what you have to say. Many publshed facts are not true and the assumption that everything printed is true is a mistake. I myself never rethought bad races I always looked forward to better myself.

RE: muscular endurance

The Fortress — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:20:58 GMT

I myself never rethought bad races I always looked forward to better myself. The last issue of Splash magazine was devoted to analyzing the "X factor" in kids, i.e., what traits differentiate the real champions from the pretty good swimmers. This trait you mention here, George, was highly valued. Swimmers that bounced back quickly from sub-par races or found something positive about the race and moved on generally did better in the long run. I can't recall the entire article, but I believe other traits of a champion (besides obvious physical gifts) included how well they responded to adversity and plateaus, how well they bounced back from injuries, hard work, confidence, tenancity, desire to learn, desire to study and analyze other elite swimmers, etc. That same issue, as I mentioned above, also stressed that, after having done all the imprinting, the strategy of "Unconscious Competence" before stepping on the blocks was the best, i.e., do all the thinking and analysis in practice and then just race. I believe that's what I was speaking of above.

RE: muscular endurance

The Fortress — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:01:19 GMT

Congratulations. You had a goal for the race -- to beat a rival -- and it worked. That's outcome-oriented thinking and is indeed the way most people do most things. So long as you're happy with the results there's no reason to change or seek to improve on your approach. Congratulations on your race. It sounds like you accomplished what you set out to do -- very outcome oriented. Obviously, the aggression factor is different for sprinters and distance folk. I was actually speaking in my post, however, of mental aggression, not physical aggression. Most sprinters seem to agree that you have to have it -- particularly with a little caffeine thrown in. I specifically remember GoodSmith and Wayne remarking on this in a thread on sprinting. And I think you've mischaracterized my last post and my general thinking on the process/outcome issue. In fact, anyone who's read my posts could readily tell that I do quite a lot of thinking about swim techniques and training. (I think several pages ago George and Matt said I was over-thinking.) So, I do not just engage in outcome-based racing or training, and I would never advocate it exclusively. In fact, I very often visualize a race beforehand and focus on a past good race and remember how that felt, so I'm a "processor" too. All I said was that I try not to process too much minutes before stepping on the starting blocks. It should all be pre-rehearsed when you step on the blocks, as you yourself have stated. I guess the difference between us is precisely WHEN we each turn off the brain. Maybe I turn mine off earlier than you. And maybe that simply reflects the difference in our race distances. The mental part of swimming is critical. In fact, much of what you mention as your new focus on the "habits of mastery" is found in the book Mind Gym, one I've referenced in some other thread. Obviously, the mental side is important, but then racing with the prior "imprinting" has to take over. As for the particular race I referred to, I wasn't in the best shape that day with what I now know is a frayed labrum, poor training and sinus issues. I just showed up at the meet to do a couple of races as well as I could and have fun. That day, for that race only, not every day, the strategy was simply to win. Racing is a competition after all. I make no apologies for liking to win. So, yes, I was happy with the outcome. Pretty happy with my time too, all things considered. But I think I'll go faster next time I attempt the same race because I will have done a lot of processing and imprinting before then, which hopefully will pay off. So I don't think my mental game is in the gutter yet. In general, I'm always trying to improve and be Mindful. I'm sure there are many ways in which I can.