One Hour Postal Strategies

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

knelson — Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:48:18 GMT

Kirk: I would be very surprised that you would not be able to achieve 5000 Yards in an Hour I know. I should be able to do it easily. I've done the event twice. The first time was in 2003 and I went 4960 yards. That was my first year in masters and I had started back swimming in September, so really that was pretty decent. I wanted to do 5000, but fell a little short. In 2004 I was in much better shape and knew I could easily go more than 5000 yards. Unfortunately I got bad calf cramps on about three different occasions during the swim and that really slowed me. It's actually funny to look at my splits because it's glaringly obvious where I cramped up. I "only" did 4,900 yards. I haven't done it since then. I think it's time to give it another shot. I've done 5K open water swims in just over an hour, so it sure seems like I should be able to do it in a pool. I'll definitely take it out nice and easy, because I think I paid the price both previous times by going out a little fast.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

knelson — Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:51:16 GMT

The UW pool is slower than the MSU pool, I would say. I'll most likely swim it there, but I have thought about doing it elsewhere. Federal Way would be an excellent place to do it. Dan Veatch's 6115 yards is really incredible. That pace is actually a 58.87 pace per 100. I'd take that for a 500 free!

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Frank Thompson — Fri, 05 Jan 2007 03:23:07 GMT

I know. I should be able to do it easily. I've done the event twice. The first time was in 2003 and I went 4960 yards. That was my first year in masters and I had started back swimming in September, so really that was pretty decent. I wanted to do 5000, but fell a little short. In 2004 I was in much better shape and knew I could easily go more than 5000 yards. Unfortunately I got bad calf cramps on about three different occasions during the swim and that really slowed me. It's actually funny to look at my splits because it's glaringly obvious where I cramped up. I "only" did 4,900 yards. I haven't done it since then. I think it's time to give it another shot. I've done 5K open water swims in just over an hour, so it sure seems like I should be able to do it in a pool. I'll definitely take it out nice and easy, because I think I paid the price both previous times by going out a little fast. Kirk: Good luck with the 2007 1 Hour swim. If you pace it right I don't think you will have a problem with the > than 5000 goal. Just curious, would you do this swim at the old Pavilion pool at the University? Have thought about doing this at the Federal Way 2007 Short Course Nationals pool? Sometimes an excellent pool can make a difference. Is the Univ. of Washington pool similar to the old Michigan State University pool you swam in at college? I noticed that the only one person in USMS history has gone over 6000 yards in the 1 Hour Swim and that is 1988 Olympian Daniel Veatch. He did that back in 1994 and went 6115, which is almost 200 yards more than anybody else has done. That is quite a milestone of someone going under 1 minute pace for the whole hour. I remember when Mike Brunner and Bobby Hacket did this many years ago for 100 minutes resulting in 10,000 Yards. I went back and checked his times for that year in SCY and found that he did the 500 Free in 4:36.13, the 1000 Free in 9:40, and the 1650 in 16 minutes. So he kind of kept pace as the distance went along. I once heard that Tom Dolan, Chris Thompson, and Tom Siciliano went 6600 yards for there T-60 swims. That should not be surprising because both Dolan and Thompson were under 14:30 for there 1650 swims when they set there American Records. Siciliano was up in the high 14:30's. I am sure there are others out there that could do 6600 in the 1 hour swim.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

knelson — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:30:59 GMT

My recollection is that I was holding between 5:40 and 5:50 per 500, so getting 10-20 seconds rest. That's about what I think I could do. I know I could hold a few 500s in the 5:40-5:45 range, but not sure if I could keep it up for ten. In my mind, if I'm getting less than ten seconds rest it would probably be better to just swim continuously.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

osterber — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:55:30 GMT

How much rest were you getting on the 500s? I'm not convinced that you can hold a faster pace swimming it unbroken, and I don't think it's just psychological. My recollection is that I was holding between 5:40 and 5:50 per 500, so getting 10-20 seconds rest. More towards 5:40 at the beginning, more towards 5:50 (perhaps one at 5:53 or 5:54 towards the end). For me, at that time, on that day, that was a good aerobic pace to hold that was challenging, but comfortable. Whether you are faster broken or unbroken will depend on the person. If you're a sprinter and only swim 50's, you may need to swim them broken by 200's or 250's or something for a comfort level. If you're an open water marathon swimmer, you'll swim continuously, because stopping will only mess up your rhythm. It all depends on how your energy systems work, and what costs more energy for you. Take as an example doing 5000 yards in the hour, or 1:12 per 100 pace. There are lots of ways to do this: * 1 x 5000 @ 60:00, holding 1:12 pace * 5 x 1000 @ 12:00, holding various paces for various rest * 10 x 500 @ 6:00, holding 1:11.5 pace (5:57.5 per 500), and getting a couple seconds for an open turn between 500's. * 10 x 500 @ 6:00, holding 1:10 pace (5:50 per 500) and getting 10 seconds rest each 500. * 10 x 500 @ 6:00, holding 1:05 pace (5:25 per 500) and getting 35 seconds rest each 500. * 50 x 100 @ 1:12, holding 1:11 pace, and basically doing open turns each 100. * 50 x 100 @ 1:12, holding 1:10 pace, and doing open turns with two breaths after each 100. * 50 x 100 @ 1:12, holding 1:05 pace, and getting 7 seconds rest each 100. * 100 x 50 @ :36 * 200 x 25 @ :18, which will end up being just endless open turns Now if you ask me, I'd _much_ rather do 10 x 500 @ 6:00 than do 200 x 25 @ :18. You waste so much energy on endless open turns. All this is to say, there are lots of ways to skin a cat. For variety, you could mix it up: 2 x 1000 @ 12:00 4 x 500 @ 6:00 4 x 250 @ 3:00 -Rick

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Frank Thompson — Thu, 04 Jan 2007 03:43:17 GMT

That's about what I think I could do. I know I could hold a few 500s in the 5:40-5:45 range, but not sure if I could keep it up for ten. In my mind, if I'm getting less than ten seconds rest it would probably be better to just swim continuously. Kirk: I would be very surprised that you would not be able to achieve 5000 Yards in an Hour judging from the distance swims you have done in the last 2 years unless you get real bored after 30 minutes or so. This is assuming that you are swimming at the 5:01.77 level for a 500, 18:05.33 for a 1650, and 9:24.10 for the 800 Free that you did at the World meet. From 1993 to 1997, I trained for this swim and went 5170 in 93, 5150 in 94, 5025 in 95, 4940 in 96, and 5100 in 97. In 1998 and 1999, not training distance very much I went 4785 in 98, and 4725 in 99. When I turned 50 for 2002, I trained distance and went 4870 and in 2003 went 4825. I have not done the 1 hour swim in 3 years but plan to do it on the last day of January. As I looked over my workout logs, I would do at least a 4000 to 4500 yard set on a 1:20 to 1:30 interval per 100 at different distances at least 3 times per week to build endurance and stamina and be aware of my stroke technique and make sure it would not get sloppy as fatigue hits. I was never a fan of doing sets where you are only getting 5 seconds rest because I believe its important to try to hold a constant pace and work up to that without getting totally exhausted. I am a firm believer that its more important to know and feel or your pace and if you have to have a higher interval of rest to accomplish that so be it. I recommend a 85% swim 15% rest, and if you can handle it, 90% swim 10% rest. One of the things I like about the 1 Hour Swim is that it comes at a time of year where swimmers can use the time before hand to build the aerobic base and elevate the aerobic system for the hard work that lies ahead in the 1 hour swim. Some of things I think about while trying to improve my maximum aerobic capacity is distance per stroke (DPS), to stretch during the swim and be consistent in strokes per length while trying to hold a consistent pace. If I remember correctly I would swim a little bit faster the first half but would not vary by more than 3 seconds per 100 on the second half of the swim. I would advise anyone swimming the 1 hour swim to know what there cruise interval is. Most swimming programs around the country use this concept as a way to teach pace in mid and long distance swimming. Usually this is done doing a timed 30 minute swim (T-30) or as little as a 500 swim. The objective of the T-30 is to swim as far as you can in 30 minutes and calculate your average time per 100. Additional seconds are added only one time per distance. For instance, if your CI is 1:15 per 100 and you are to swim a 300 on CI + 15 seconds, your interval wopuld be 4:00 (1:15 X 3 +15 seconds). Another way to calculate a pace is from a timed swim of 500 yards or more. Take the total time and get the average 100 yard/meter time. Then calculate an 85% effort to 75% effort to yield an interval. The one hour swim is the most popular postal swim and a lot of programs besides masters swimmers do it as T-60 swims but most do T-30 swims for bench marks of fitness, endurance and training. Unlike the other postal swims where you have to swim a set distance for time, this is a set time for distance and I believe you can use strategy better with this type of arrangement. If you can see a clock easily, you can compute in your head where you should be at all times and when to back off and when to push during the race. For instance, if my goal is say 5000, I know that I have to do 500's on 6, 1000's on 12, be at 1250 at the 15 minute mark, 2500 at the 30 minute mark, etc. This is what I do during the swim which keeps me from being bored. Swimmers are always surprised that they went as fast as they did and were able to accomplish the 1 hour swim easier then they thought, but if you really think about it most masters swimmers swim a practice and train at least 60 minutes to 90 minutes a session, so the hour swim is not that much of a stretch for most people as long as they adhere to there practice pace. Once they swim continuously and don't hold the pace there used to swimming then problems will arise. Tips and hints for a good one hour swim. 1. Do some endurance sets and know what pace you are capable of handling. 2. If you can get a scoreboard clock or have access to read a clock easily without disrupting your swim, this would be wise so you can hold and figure pace thoughout the whole 1 hour. 3. Get counts often. This is important because its very easy to lose track of where you are and what time you should be at for your goal swim. I have my counter use the standard lap counter that everyone uses for swim meets that counts up to 65 and has double orange counters for the end. The problem with these is that there are no even numbers so you have to get counts on odd lengths. So use 1100 instead of a 1000 as an example. I feel the more counts you can give a swimmer the better. This makes it difficult during the 1 hour swim because you usually have less than 40 seconds per 50 to write the time down and get the count in the water without getting everything wet but with practice it can be done. 4. Make sure you warm up and warm down adequately. I have seen a lot swimmers in my day that don't do either of these things properly and end up having a bad swim because of inadequate warm up or being sore for 3 days after the swim because of inadequate warm down. 5. If you can, do the swim in the best pool possible with the best conditions. This makes a big difference on performance and think of this event just like a National Championship meet where you would have the exact conditions like deep pool, cool water, excellent lane markers, etc.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

knelson — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:41:24 GMT

Yeah, doing repeats of 100 yards probably wouldn't be the best way to do it. I like Terry's idea of using active rest, though.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

knelson — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:32:27 GMT

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Former Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:14:41 GMT

Personally, I think this event reflects the swimming community's obsession with distance freestyle and engine building. Can't we have an hour swim all fly, back or ***? I'd rather do one of those, after anesthesia of course. GASP!!! Engine Building? You'd need an engine to swim an hour fly, wouldn't you? Seriously, I don't really care how far I swim in an hour, at least not today, but I will in about a year and a half! Donna

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

The Fortress — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 10:07:11 GMT

You'd need an engine to swim an hour fly, wouldn't you? Nah, unless you're that stud muffin Dave Barra, you'd just need fins and be willing to dolphin dive a bit. :rofl: Not sure it's advisable for the shoulder of course, so I'd be doing backstroke, reluctantly. If forced. If paid.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Former Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 09:47:18 GMT

I am not in ya'lls league but... I am still going to try and catch Andy and will accept anything above last place as a good finish. Last year I swam 50's alternating with 100 yard repeats on 1 amd 2 minute repeats. This was a two fold stradegy. I got plenty of rest and my sweet wife who was my offical timer had an easy time recording everything. All she had to do was keep me honest. This year after tinkering at the pool the last two weeks I have decided to swim 500's. I am going to swim 100 free then 50 back and split the odd 50. I will then kick 50 back and repeat until an hour is up. This gains about 2:30 in a hunderd or about a 100 yards at last years pace. breathing is bilateral every other stroke. Have a great day Paul

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Former Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 09:46:12 GMT

Personally I could care less how far I can swim in an hour. Personally I'd rather have a root canal (at least you get anesthesia).

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Former Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 09:35:34 GMT

Well I am not in ya'lls league but... Last year I entered and did 50 and 100 repeats for the entire hour alternating between each. All 50's were on the minute and the 100's were on two minutes. This approach had several benefits for me. My counter (my sweet wife) had a preset interval for each distance and I got plenty of rest. All she had to do was to keep me honest and count off each set as I went. This year I have been experimenting and probably will try doing 500's by doing 100 free alternating with 50 back and split the odd 50. At the end of the 500 I will kick 50 back and repeat until 60 minutes has passed. From my practice in the pool this gains 2:30 on every 500 or another 100 yards or so based on last years repeats. The active rest does make a difference. Paul

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Former Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 07:44:16 GMT

One year I just did 10 x 500 on 6:00, to hit 5000 safely. For me, that was a good repeat distance. How much rest were you getting on the 500s? I'm not convinced that you can hold a faster pace swimming it unbroken, and I don't think it's just psychological.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Former Member — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 06:52:39 GMT

Curious to see how Ande is going to attack the 1 hour swim. One hour holding 1:00 per 100?!

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

ande — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:47:44 GMT

no way I think I could hold between 1:06 - 1:10 per 100 but I don't train for it and don't ever want to distance is detrimental to sprinting ande Curious to see how Ande is going to attack the 1 hour swim. One hour holding 1:00 per 100?!

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

swim4me — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:09:31 GMT

Bill and Terry, thanks for the link and the encouragement. I will give it a shot if I can get my land lubber husband to count and time for me. I also think that for me the no rest, option will work best. :groovy:

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

The Fortress — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:08:59 GMT

And for me personally, I have no desire to find out ... :wiggle: Personally, I think this event reflects the swimming community's obsession with distance freestyle and engine building. Can't we have an hour swim all fly, back or ***? I'd rather do one of those, after anesthesia of course.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

FlyQueen — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 04:44:32 GMT

Personally I could care less how far I can swim in an hour Ande And for me personally, I have no desire to find out ... :wiggle:

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

ande — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 04:38:00 GMT

I think you will go the furthest by holding the most appropriate pace It's worthwhile to figure out what that pace is and what it feels like I think it's better to keep moving than to stop and start Proper training makes a big difference Personally I could care less how far I can swim in an hour Ande How much rest were you getting on the 500s? I'm not convinced that you can hold a faster pace swimming it unbroken, and I don't think it's just psychological.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

osterber — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 02:28:45 GMT

One year I just did 10 x 500 on 6:00, to hit 5000 safely. For me, that was a good repeat distance. -Rick

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

FlyQueen — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 02:11:25 GMT

My guess is that you should swim straight and if you are really hurting/form is going to pot, etc. take a quick 10-20 second break or better yet do some double arm back. I just know that I personally would do better with a little break here or there, unless I really get into the zone. But I am NOT a distance swimmer - I suck at holding a pace, the only way I can sort of do it is if I can see the pace clock. We did a 800 test swim a few months ago, really it was 8 x 100 r:03 in between. I held a much better pace per/100 even with the rest than I would have had I done 800 straight swim. I know it's mental, but so am I ...

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

poolraat — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:58:46 GMT

So one thing I've been wondering about is what is the best way to swim it? I've done it twice now. My :2cents: Just get in the water and swim until your counter tells you the hour is up. If you have a clock where it can be seen (I didn't) then you can track your pace and distance. I told my counter what my target pace was and how to let me know if I was behind, ahead, or on pace every 500 yards.

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

ande — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:47:49 GMT

try going postal Actually I recommend holding a brisk gentle pace fast turns strong push offs stay relaxed and long lots of air save your legs get in a groove and stay there ande Gull mentioned the one hour postal swim in the Elite vs. Fitness thread and rather than go further off topic over there I decided to create a new thread. So one thing I've been wondering about is what is the best way to swim it?

RE: One Hour Postal Strategies

Kevin in MD — Wed, 03 Jan 2007 01:32:29 GMT

Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like maybe I could hold 100s on the 1:12, going probably 1:07-1:08 the entire time easier than I could swim for an hour straight at a 1:12 pace. The power needed for a 1:07 is a lot more than the power required fror a 1:12. That's a complicating factor, you wouldn't get back everything extra you gained by resting. Try it out in training. You have some time in the next few weeks to try different strategies for a 40 minute trianing swim.