Butterflyers

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 02 Jan 2007 09:23:25 GMT

AMAZING!!! :notworthy: I will never forget watching the 80-85 yr old men swim the 200 meter fly at Nationals! I felt like such a wimp....swimming my little 50 fly! There were two entrants in the 200 meter fly last summer at the Oklahoma long course meet. The one who actually finished without DQing was 81 years old. Took him a while, but he set a state record. The heat was brutal -- around 90 degree water temperature.

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:06:45 GMT

Is it just me or does it seem like everybody and their brother in usms is a buterflyer. lot of butterflers out there. We may be different here in Minnesota. There aren't a lot of butterflyers. Does that make us smart or short-sighted? I swam 200 fly about 3 weeks ago. There was one other swimmer entered. He was so happy to see me he grabbed my hand when we were on deck and shook it so hard I wondered what kind of head game he was playing. Alas, there was none. He was just so accustomed to swimming solo that seeing another entrant made him feel validated. No, he wasn't psycho or masochistic, he had partner. I almost lapped him- I hope he's still friendly at our next meet in January. Come on, guys. If I can do 200 fly (and my compatriate as well) then many, many more of you can too. And after the meet, as we were meeting for :drink: I was very happy.

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:22:28 GMT

I think the true "Axis of Evil" is long axis. This is a great quote. Maybe a bit inflammatory, but gee wheeze, where's the aesthetic in the long axis? Anybody who took algebra can relate to the undulation of butterfly. Fortress- The Rec Center is a great, fast pool. After the University Aquatic Center in Minneapolis, it is hand down the best pool in the state. That great deep end- my 11 year old loves diving down and scratching his name on the bottom lane line slime. We host both Age Group and Senior State meets; the joint really rocks then! I have a short drive at 5:15 AM- very little traffic on Elton Hills Drive- from Southwest Rochester, near Folwell School. Coming back is another story, since I am dodging the 7AM nursing shift at Saint Mary's Hospital.

RE: Butterflyers

The Fortress — Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:37:16 GMT

This is a great quote. Maybe a bit inflammatory, but gee wheeze, where's the aesthetic in the long axis? Anybody who took algebra can relate to the undulation of butterfly. Fortress- The Rec Center is a great, fast pool. After the University Aquatic Center in Minneapolis, it is hand down the best pool in the state. That great deep end- my 11 year old loves diving down and scratching his name on the bottom lane line slime. We host both Age Group and Senior State meets; the joint really rocks then! I have a short drive at 5:15 AM- very little traffic on Elton Hills Drive- from Southwest Rochester, near Folwell School. Coming back is another story, since I am dodging the 7AM nursing shift at Saint Mary's Hospital. Allen is just joshing. He likes *** and butterfrog, but he tolerates the rest of us. He could give you tips on splitting the 200 butterfrog. Muppet can give you tips too, if he comes back to this thread, although I guess he claims to love the 50 best. My high school boyfriend was the captain of the U of M swim team. I know of that great pool. Too funny... I remember the Rec pool being fabulous; I'm glad it's still going strong. That's where I swam my fastest ever 100 meter fly at senior states. I can't believe you get to practice there! Good luck to your kid at Mayo High!! I used to live on Elton Hills Drive when I was tres little. Then I moved way out down Marion Road, which at the time was a far outpost from the Rec Center by small town standards. Do you work at St Mary's or just drive by? How many people are on your masters' team?

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:47:39 GMT

I have formulated two theories on this ... ONE - with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes the realization that fly is the most superior stroke so we decide to master it ... OR TWO - flyers are the loudest and always have to have their voices heard ... I am going very strong with theory number 1. 29 years ago, as a backstroker on an average D-III team, I was forced to swim 200 fly since I was one of two people that could swim it legally (the other guy was actually competent). I would loaf as best I could, since all that separated 200 fly from 200 back was 1-meter diving. 2 1/2 weeks ago I swam 200 fly again, and I think I may have beat my old time by going 2:43. Of course, this time I was trying. What has helped me is three things. First, a great coach, with many great drills. Second, I do a broken 300 fly at about 2/3rd of my workouts; recently I've been going 6X50 on 1:00. Last, when the arms get tired I use the core to get the body wave going and recruit an effective kick - the legs and core have so much more strength than the arms. Does anyone know when we'll find out national qualifying times?

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:19:13 GMT

I have nothing against fly. I don't consider it the illegitamate child of breaststroke,but rather the lovable but slightly annoying younger sibling.We swimmers of the short axis strokes need to stick together against the tyranny of the freestylers,who have so many events(why no open water breaststroke/fly only events? They do 1500 *** and fly in Australia) Don't even get me started on backstroke,a stroke designed to fill all 8 sinus cavities with water. I think the true "Axis of Evil" is long axis. Tyranny of freestylers? You must be a friend of the Fortress. It seems like lately we've head from a lot of loud strokers. I think that "Axis of Evil" stuff is pure forum baiting, Mr. Stark. Besides, us real freestylers don't have so many events, at least not ones that I would enter. 50, 100, 200 free? To short. fugetaboutit. Now, as to the OW, you do pose an interesting question. Despite my freestyle preference, it seems illogical to have only freestyle races in the open water. If I've got to hear about fly all the time here and at home, I'd like to see some true studly long butternut butterflyers. All I read about is a lot of moaning about shoulder problems from fly. I want to go to OZ land. I do also agree that backstroke is evil. I'm a one stroke guy.

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:38:30 GMT

RE: Butterflyers

The Fortress — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:54:19 GMT

Fortress- Thanks for the lead on the qualifying times. You are correct in identifying the thread. I have a ways to go, but I haven't really trained for the 200 fly yet, and will have to work not only on endurance but getting the splits right. It was interesting to read Ande's strategy on how to split the 200 fly in his swimming faster faster thread. What's your take? I've found as I mature that I don't have a whole lot of fast twitch going. If I'm going to make it to nationals, I think the 200 is my event even though it is going to take some hard work. There is a thriving master's swim group in town that practices 6 days/week at the Rochester Rec Center. There are now 2 teams in town- Orcas and Med City. It is a GREAT time. forums.usms.org/.../drink.gif Fun to hear from a Mayo grad. My son is a senior there (he is a rower) and I have two swimmers, one of which is on the Mayo boys' team. I am originally from Wisconsin, but got my Minnesota connection established at Macalester College. OMG, I'm so glad you replied. I must tell you, I don't swim the 200 fly anymore. I'm strictly limited to the 50 and 100. And the 100 is a stretch. I used to be a middle distance/stroker in my youth, but in old age I find myself a whimpy sprinter. Yes, I used to go to the Rec Center when I was on the Rochester Swim team now called the "Orcas." I didn't live near there and had to get up early for morning practice, which I detested. I think I still hold several old ORCA records from the very, very distant past. Don't tell on me now! Ande's tips are so great that my daughter and I both read them and I wrote a poem to Ande on the "Thank you to Ande" thread. My husband was an ex-rower and Macalester is a great school. My, we have a lot in common. With 6x a week at the Rec Center, you'll be doing fine. I remember that pool fondly. It was the scene of one of my final MN state champs before I tore my rotator cuff in college the following year. Is it still a nice pool? Where do you live in Rochester? Maybe I should move back since you have such a good masters group ..."Med City" -- not surprised by that name. :rofl: I wish you much luck in your chosen event. What age group are in?

RE: Butterflyers

FlyQueen — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:43:55 GMT

Tyranny of freestylers? You must be a friend of the Fortress. It seems like lately we've head from a lot of loud strokers. I think that "Axis of Evil" stuff is pure forum baiting, Mr. Stark. Besides, us real freestylers don't have so many events, at least not ones that I would enter. 50, 100, 200 free? To short. fugetaboutit. Now, as to the OW, you do pose an interesting question. Despite my freestyle preference, it seems illogical to have only freestyle races in the open water. If I've got to hear about fly all the time here and at home, I'd like to see some true studly long butternut butterflyers. All I read about is a lot of moaning about shoulder problems from fly. I want to go to OZ land. I do also agree that backstroke is evil. I'm a one stroke guy. Hmmm ... fly is most favorite ... but I like spriting free, too ... nothing over 100 though, I'll do the 200 but it's ugly ... this season I'm giving backstroke a whirl, probably only the 50 and only because of the underwater dolphin kick - I figure I only really have to swim 20 yards or so of actual backstroke ...

RE: Butterflyers

The Fortress — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:53:06 GMT

Does anyone know when we'll find out national qualifying times? Hello, fellow flyer. I love fly drills too. I think the times can be found on the thread entitled "2007 Nat SCY...Where?" They're probably accessible from the home page under the competition tab somewhere as well. So how is life in Rochester? I have to say that I am a graduate of Mayo High School in that lovely city. I haven't yet met anyone on the forum from Rochester. Have you always lived there or did you move there? Are you there for the big 2 -- Mayo Clinic/IBM -- or some other interesting endeavor? I also just re-met a former high school classmate from Roch at a local swim meet. Her daughter was swimming butterfly, great stroke that it is, against my daughter. Man, it's a small world. Hope you've got your winter gear ready. Where are you swimming in Rochester?

RE: Butterflyers

Allen Stark — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:37:18 GMT

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 17:49:22 GMT

Lindsay, that is where I believe my problem is: stamina. I can sprint 50 freestyle, but when I start going up to 100 and 200 my expected times drop. My 50 freeestyle is close to what I did when 18 years old, but my 100 is way off. I have the speed but not the capacity to maintain it for long. When we do 100 freestyle repetitions at a fixed time, I usually start breaking up after the third or fourth, and go into 75 meters for a couple of times and then back to 100. Three times a week isn't quite doing it for me. But 2007 is around the corner, and maybe I will apply myself more and get into better shape. Take care, billy fanstone

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:47:36 GMT

If I swim well, or reasonably well, the first 25 meters of a 50 meter fly, then my problem is not being able to swim, but having the stamina to go the full 50. There is a theory out there that if you have an inefficient stroke you can overcome it to some extent by pure power, for a short distance. There is the possibility that if you improve your technique you will be able to swim further before running out of steam. One clue as to whether this theory applies to you would be how far you can sprint freestyle. If you can swim 200 free at a good clip but die in a 50 fly the problem might have more to do with technique than stamina. Theoretically speaking.

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:45:37 GMT

I agree with the Fortress about age limiting the efficiency of the Fly. Probaly not only age, but the fact that older masters train less. If I swim well, or reasonably well, the first 25 meters of a 50 meter fly, then my problem is not being able to swim, but having the stamina to go the full 50. I am not even thinking yet of a 100 meter butterfly, but who knows? I got all confused and flustered and confounded by this frog versus dolphin kick issue. Recently, with less swimmers at the pool, our coach has begun giving me some "private" lessons on the fly. He is correcting small mistakes here and there in style. As I mentioned earlier, I died at the end of a 50 meter long course, even though bettering my pitiful time by 2 full seconds. But I did manage to go the whole way with no gliding after the hand entry. The gliding is what made if for me possible to swim the whole distance without going into butterstruggle, but I was going nowhere speedwise. I also believe the reason a lot of us swim the freestyle is that it is easier to swim. For our next racing calendar year which goes from March through November, I plan on doing some different strokes such as the *** and even maybe a backstroke. I can swim those strokes because I use to swim the I.M. medley, but I sure hate them, specially the backstroke where I fill in all my sinuses with water. Maybe I could try and swim the darn thing with nose clips and no goggles, and die of lack of air instead of water spillage into my brain via a communication between the diverse sinuses. Finally, I will practice more the Fly, on alternate days, because our training is pretty much standard for all, modifying only some distances, so not much Fly included. billy fanstone.

RE: Butterflyers

swimr4life — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:27:15 GMT

Re butterfly as you age: 2006 New England SCM Championships Greg Shaw, 55 years old - 100 meter fly 1:00.35! AMAZING!!! :notworthy: I will never forget watching the 80-85 yr old men swim the 200 meter fly at Nationals! I felt like such a wimp....swimming my little 50 fly!

RE: Butterflyers

Rich Abrahams — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:22:21 GMT

Re butterfly as you age: 2006 New England SCM Championships Greg Shaw, 55 years old - 100 meter fly 1:00.35!

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:40:43 GMT

Oh, Heather- you know that you and I are together on choice #2...

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:40:19 GMT

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:22:28 GMT

Technique is everything with fly. Even the strongest swimmers can struggle with fly if they have poor stroke technique. I remember back in high school, with a little extra work on my technique and coordinating my breathing, my time dropped dramatically the next race.

RE: Butterflyers

Muppet — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:02:34 GMT

I love me a 50 fly. That is probably my 2nd favorite event. The event is quick but challenging nonetheless. I always go for it, and feel like :dedhorse: afterwards. The 100 I like too. When you've been sprinting the previous 75, that last 25 is SO HARD, and each time I swim it, I feel like it is a major accomplishment just to have made it to the 100 mark!

RE: Butterflyers

The Fortress — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 04:46:49 GMT

Oh, Heather- you know that you and I are together on choice #2... I resemble that Cruise. I am a very quiet conventional sort. I am just noisy and huffy when I can't do fly all I want.

RE: Butterflyers

poolraat — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 04:37:08 GMT

I have formulated two theories on this ... ONE - with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes the realization that fly is the most superior stroke so we decide to master it ... OR TWO - flyers are the loudest and always have to have their voices heard ... I'll go with ONE. 4 years ago I decided to learn the stroke. Now I can do a decent 50 without a form break. Time to start working on the 100.

RE: Butterflyers

FlyQueen — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 04:32:47 GMT

Is it just me or does it seem like everybody and their brother in usms is a buterflyer. lot of butterflers out there. I have formulated two theories on this ... ONE - with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes the realization that fly is the most superior stroke so we decide to master it ... OR TWO - flyers are the loudest and always have to have their voices heard ...

RE: Butterflyers

knelson — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 01:41:39 GMT

this stroke was invented to 'sap our precious bodily juices'. Bodily fluids, Peter, bodily fluids. Get it right! :joker:

RE: Butterflyers

Former Member — Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:50:53 GMT

Butterfly is a cruel deception foisted on the swimming community to corrupt their well-known family values. As the seminal movie 'Dr.Strangelove' noted, this stroke was invented to 'sap our precious bodily juices'.