dolphin kick off walls

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:58:19 GMT

What do you do to control the exhale? I find that by the time I push off and take 2-3 kicks I am in desparate need for air, having expelled most of it through the turn. Don't exhale too much too soon. Some people don't like water going up their nose....so they exhale through thier nostrils to prevent this from happening. Use control...and the urge to breath will not feel so alarming. It takes time.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:34:04 GMT

...unless I have my fins on. Sometimes I do put them on solely for the purpose and pleasure of swimming underwater on my back. Fin kicking is a great way to put "memory" into your muscles for dolphin kicking. And Piersol seems do something like eight or nine kicks minimum.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:07:38 GMT

I get a bit of a downward arc on my push off...as if I'm pointing down to the bottom...but not quite. Then I do the rumba kick (it's starts from the hips :yawn:)...and make the ascent back to the surface. Four kicks minimum when I'm tired...but six or so... when feeling fresh. The biggest discipline is in getting a nice gulp of air before the flip turn...and then holding it for a slow exhale while staying under. The conditioning for staying under takes a while...and is painful at first...but it will happen over time. I managed to do 10 x100's on a 1:15 interval (backstroke) which has been a bit of a breakthrough for me.... being in my mid-forties. (Two years ago I wouldn't have been able to do this set freestyle.) A strong dolphin kick is just as fast...if not faster than freestyle. And I would have to say that Ryan Lochte's 44 second 100 back is a good testament to this. If they gave hime more than 15 meters to kick ...he'd probably be 40 or 41. (And the parents have been behaving by the way :cool:. Nasdaq is over 12,000 these days.) www.youtube.com/watch This is how it's done...(just hit the play tab) Notice how he goes deep ...an then comes back up.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:29:30 GMT

I've been "masters swimming" for almost five years now. The experimentation with the dolphin kick on sprint free just doesn't work for me. ( I was a sprinter and a backstroker) Having seen vidoes of the world class sprint swimmers in action...it's safe to say that the majority of them come off the wall with "flutter kicks of fury". Perhaps some take one major down beat (dolphin style)...and then they switch over flutter mode. The 8 beat kick in sprint swimming sets up the tempo for the arms. And the dolphin kick on a 50 or 100 throws that off for me. On the other hand...my backstroke times are improving to within several seconds of what I could do in college. Dolphin kicking a third of the pool on my back has changed this stroke for me entirely. I swim mostly all backstroke in workouts and love watching all the freestyle strokes the swimmer in the adjacent lane is taking.... whilst I wiggle down the pool...sometimes at an even faster pace.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

poolraat — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:53:12 GMT

The biggest discipline is in getting a nice gulp of air before the flip turn...and then holding it for a slow exhale while staying under. The conditioning for staying under takes a while...and is painful at first...but it will happen over time. What do you do to control the exhale? I find that by the time I push off and take 2-3 kicks I am in desparate need for air, having expelled most of it through the turn.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:18:34 GMT

Quicksilver: Now that darn clip finished before I could count how many kicks Piersol actually did. But I think I need a bit more downward arc on my turns. I do OK on the air gulps. I can stay under. But I can't make the intervals on that set you did ...unless I have my fins on. Sometimes I do put them on solely for the purpose and pleasure of swimming underwater on my back.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:38:30 GMT

Quicksilver: Now I like my SDKs on back too, but I'm not getting 1/3 down the pool after my turns (but my start can somtimes rock). How deep do you go on your turns to get 1/3 down the pool? Do you do this on a 50 back too? I think my turns on the 50 free are pretty mediocre and I've been doing (I think) 2 dolphin kicks. So I am going to experiment with this. P.S. I do a lot of backstroke on those free sets too. I hope you don't have to deal with any overbearing parents today.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:33:15 GMT

yeah I was talking about 50 free, sorry

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:52:30 GMT

Warren: Off the start? Weren't they taking a lot more off the start to get their 15 meters or so in? I think I usually try for 7-8. Poolrat: I think I am holding my breath when I flip and not starting the gradual exhale until I'm on my back and starting to do the "rumba kick." This may be wrong though. for the 50? no, On the video alot of people take 2. no I tried to find the video but I couldn't, I got it on my computer at home but im at college. Ian croker is the only person I'v seen go 15 meters off the start and off the turn. its incredible to watch him do 50 yard free becasue while he is underwater, he is swimming faster than the people under water. ian croker is the best under water swimmer in the world. www.texas-trio.com/.../displayimage.php

RE: dolphin kick off walls

aquaFeisty — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:47:14 GMT

Muppet, Thank you! I will definitely work on immediately starting the flutters after a down beat. I think I am letting my body drift back up, just like you said, after that last dolphin and that might be causing some of the stalling. Very good point about practicing turns when pooped. Actually, for me it's important to practice kicking when pooped (like not letting my legs drift behind me when I get tired). I had a 100 free one time where I actually fell off the 3rd wall, there was just nothing left in my legs to push with! Quicksilver, I had to chuckle at your description of "flutter kicks of fury". I certainly kick furiously off the wall and start in my 50 free, but my furiously fast flutterkicks don't exactly move me anywhere. :)

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:14:27 GMT

dolpin kicking off the start for 50 is the way to go. almost everyone in athens took 2 or 3 dolphin kicks off the start.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:10:51 GMT

Hmmmm... I think I'm talking about backstroke and you're talking about Crocker, who does not do the backstroke

RE: dolphin kick off walls

The Fortress — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:22:40 GMT

RE: dolphin kick off walls

poolraat — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:09:23 GMT

Don't exhale too much too soon. Some people don't like water going up their nose....so they exhale through thier nostrils to prevent this from happening. I do exhale through my nose. But seem to exhale more quickly while doing the backstroke pullout. The other strokes, I can get out to around 10 yards before wanting/needing air but with backstroke it seems that I'm out of air sooner and am surfacing just past the flags. I tried the "cover the nostrils with the lip" thing to slow down the exhale...My lips don't reach that far.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:54:02 GMT

Dolphin kjck videos here www.oceanfootage.com/.../

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:20:10 GMT

Quicksilver the videos were actually a response to the Lindsay - Muppet talk about dolphins swimming. Doh...I jumped the gun...and skipped the post by Muppet. Great videos. and.... I do find your comments amusing. Sense of humor is very important.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:28:50 GMT

Quicksilver the videos were actually a response to the Lindsay - Muppet talk about dolphins swimming. Was not trying to be funny or maybe I was???

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Former Member — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:58:15 GMT

Dolphin kjck videos here www.oceanfootage.com/.../ George, Ever thought about comedy? :yawn: And in response to the dolphin kick question...The undulation is quick and tight. Fast kicks...with not too much up and down action. When done well...you can actually hear the 'swishing' of water coming from your toes. They aren't always used in the 50 free. (In my opinion ...it's better to come off the wall with flutter kicks of fury.... for sprint freestyle.) But for back and fly...it's well worth the time to learn how to do it right. Three to four kicks minimum off each wall can provide a very nice reduction in time.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Muppet — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:37:16 GMT

Can you elaborate on how you reached that conclusion? I would think the large surface area of the tail would allow a large force to be generated with relatively little slip, hence the small tail movement. Certainly humans wearing fins can generate more forward movement with less foot movement than without fins. I am fairly confident that muscular effort in dolphins would extend right to the base of the tail, not stop at "hip"/mid-body level. You pretty much have the concept down. If the dolphin was just freeswimming straight across its tank in a line, I noticed that the tail itself would hardly move downward. Most of the movement was concentrated in its more rear mid-section, and aside from a slight downward motion, the flukes pretty much stayed put. Now when they want to speed up, thats when the tail gets bent toward its underside. Its a little hard to explain - perhaps a field trip is due! For the science geeks, check out: biomechanics.bio.uci.edu/.../dolphin.htm

RE: dolphin kick off walls

The Fortress — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:23:29 GMT

They aren't always used in the 50 free. (In my opinion ...it's better to come off the wall with flutter kicks of fury.... for sprint freestyle.) Oh, oh. :eek: I've been dolphin kicking in my 50 free off the turn. I am going to try this. Maybe I haven't hit my speed cap in this event yet.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

The Fortress — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:56:51 GMT

Ha ha ha, Muppet. I will not be swimming the 50 free so my secret nemesis can have it all to herself. :D I know that's her favorite event. And I would like to face her mano-a-mano, but I just swam the thing 2 weeks ago and I will be very busy doing other important stuff that Saturday. Like the 50 back -- which she never dares to swim. :rofl: She must not have hyperextended elbows.... I didn't say I would entirely "bail" on the dolphin kicks on my 50 free. I thought I might just try Quicksilver's advice out sometime. But that nice "transition" tip you just shared might be an even better solution.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Muppet — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:39:23 GMT

Carrie, I hear you about the "stalling out" with the fly-to-free kick transition after the start. I spent a lot of last season working on the dolphin kick off the wall for the purpose of a 500 free, so I had plenty of work on this transition! The stalling out has a lot to do with timing. For a 50/100, I tend to do two quick dolphin kicks off a turn, and then break out into the flutter. I have found that less stalling occurs when, at the end of the 2nd downward dolphin, I break out IMMEDIATELY into really strong flutter kick. I noticed that any delay in that second dolphin and the start of the flutter would cause my feet to rise, my body position to get all screwed up (like it almost wants to do one more kick), and stall. For a workout of mostly turns, try working on this in a short pool. Also it is important to practice this when you're tired, so that when you get to that 75 turn (or 175 turn, or 475 turn) of your race, you have been through the exhausted version of these turns and can keep your momentum and form. To Leslie's comment about bailing out on the fly kick, go for it, if you don't mind your secret nemesis taking advantage of you. ;-P

RE: dolphin kick off walls

Muppet — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:31:57 GMT

Thanks George - I was looking for something like that last night.

RE: dolphin kick off walls

aquaFeisty — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:31:48 GMT

I have a related question: anyone have any tips on transitioning from a dolphin kick into a free kick? My hubby has said that I can 'stall myself out' going from dolphin kick into flutter, particularly on starts. My underwater dolphin is lots faster than my underwater flutter, so I'd like to use it. I tend to either wuss out or just forget to use it in short races (50 and 100). Any ideas?

RE: dolphin kick off walls

poolraat — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:01:20 GMT

Since it is tough to see underwater clearly for the deck, it was not caught by the official. And they cant used the video replay to dq people. I believe that they need to add a rule to allow officials to use replay to dq swimmers. Because of glare and surface turbulance, it is very difficult to see clearly underwater. As an official I know, because I have missed calls for that reason and have observed missed calls by other officials. Maybe at national and international competitions video would work but I'm not sure I would like it even then.