Head-up dolphin kick drill

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:54:09 GMT

Leslie and Bud, keep it simple and that is what works.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:10:54 GMT

Solar every clip I use comes from Utube or other sources, I have posted some of my own. I have not been in problem as the links are the links directly from their sites. The only problem I have ever had was once I had a Total Immersion page that was directly linked to Terrys's site and was told I was not given permission to link to his site. Even though I had requested permission 2 weeks earlier and did not recieve a reply. If any one complains it takes 10 seconds to take their stuff off my site and have only had 1 complaint and will never refer another swimmer there again. I refer all kinds of brits to The Swim Shack a total immersion instructor in the UK.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:50:04 GMT

I found it (Actually on your site George which is great for its clip library btw). So that's a butterfly swimmer's head position while having her hands on the side. That's the exact same position that you get when doing head up bf kicking drill. The hands never reach the place they would be in this drill - i.e. elbows straight and hands trailing by the hips. At the moment the head is most "up" (i.e. moment of inhale) the hands are pretty much in line with the shoulders. So having the hands behind you with head up would create a position that one would hope never to see in whole-stroke. Full clip available here www.dropshots.com/day.php (George, if there's any copyright issue with the fact of posting one of your clip on my dropshot site please let me know. I did that this way in order to have a direct link to the clip itself.)

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:14:58 GMT

I found the greatest help for me when getting the stroke put together was not to concentrate on the kick and to make sure the arms cleared the water and exiting cleanly, along with getting the whole body from the shoulders flexing, the hips up then hips down legs automatically following (just little movement).... This is the best short summation of fly I’ve ever seen, thanks! I can totally relate to this, as this has been my experience so far as well.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:55:25 GMT

I found the greatest help for me when getting the stroke put together was not to concentrate on the kick and to make sure the arms cleared the water and exiting cleanly, along with getting the whole body from the shoulders flexing, the hips up then hips down legs automatically following (just little movement). The first time I did fly I did a 60 second 100yards. I was doing about 50 second 100 yard free at that time. After I felt confident with the fly I would do 25s or 50s during our endless relay swims I would dolphin kick against the freestylers in the club. I was beating them doing the dolpin kicks.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:36:35 GMT

... I think you guys are making it too complicated. Just one stroke and 2 kicks from the shoulder. I agree with geochuck, it is too easy to over think butterfly. Keen observation (of yourself and others), along with patience and practice, will take you a long way. I feel that I am steadily nailing it more and more often in my fly practice, but right now I actually swim over 600yds of fly per day, 4+ days per week. As long as I’m really enjoying it, like I am now, I’ll keep at it. Drills are great aids, especially if cutting your times is important, but I feel there is no substitute for just doing the whole stroke. This is especially true for an athletic feat like butterfly where timing and finesse are so fundamentally critical. I may look up a bit as I set myself for the pull, but I wait till the last possible moment to lift my head and breathe, otherwise it kills my forward momentum. I pretty much never feel any “natural balance while breathing” in fly, not consistently, not yet anyway. Keeping a streamlined position while breathing is by far my most difficult task in fly. I’ve not tried this “head up dolphin kick drill” yet either, but I really appreciate this thread, it is good food for thought.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:27:38 GMT

If the image isn't saved as JPEG save it as JPEG, if it is try cropping it or saving it at lower resolution or with the quality set lower, most swimming pictures will look fine with a lower quality setting. I think the attached picture illustrates that you can get adequate quality at adequate resolution at well under the file size limit. would you happen to have few butterfly recoveries while breathing in your library ? :drink:

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:02:43 GMT

I tried to attach a couple pix taken of me breathing in Fly but the file size exceeded that allowed. Have to try to figure out another way. Hi TotalSwimm, You may want to try resizing them maybe? Go under Start-Programs-Accessories-Paint (or something like that) Then open your file. Then (when you're in Paint application), choose Image-Stretch/Skew and key is a low value. Like 30%-30%

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 06:08:21 GMT

I tried to attach a couple pix taken of me breathing in Fly but the file size exceeded that allowed. Have to try to figure out another way. If the image isn't saved as JPEG save it as JPEG, if it is try cropping it or saving it at lower resolution or with the quality set lower, most swimming pictures will look fine with a lower quality setting. I think the attached picture illustrates that you can get adequate quality at adequate resolution at well under the file size limit.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:57:04 GMT

Good thing for me when I raced the butterfly, close to 1 min flat for the 100m, when fly was in the development stage, never did a butterfly work out, never did a drill, just did it. I think you guys are making it too complicated. Just one stroke and 2 kicks from the shoulder.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 16:51:29 GMT

We want the same thing here. We teach this via what we call a "sneaky" breath. Chin stays in water. You try to breathe in such a way that it's difficult for an observer to see the breath. Would you happen to have a clip? I begin surfacing for the breath as soon as my hands begin to engage, complete the breath at around the moment my upper chest comes over the hands and am returning my head to the water as the hands exit. Yeah that makes sense. After so many years coaching triathlon I guess my butterfly (my specialty) is a bit rusty thanks. But the bottom line remains though. Purpose of this drill is to improve balance without the help of the hands. I use a very simple but efficient trick to help this as well. I ask the swimmers to look at where they're about to breathe, before actually breathing. This simple head motion (while looking at the surface) seem to have a very beneficial effect. That triggers the upward ondulation by itself without having to use pulling power. The hands never reach the place they would be in this drill - i.e. elbows straight and hands trailing by the hips. At the moment the head is most "up" (i.e. moment of inhale) the hands are pretty much in line with the shoulders. So having the hands behind you with head up would create a position that one would hope never to see in whole-stroke. I think you exagerate a bit here, probably to make the "heads-up" drill sound like useless. You exagerate by timing the head movement relative to the whole stroke a bit too early. Though I agree on the fact that this motion should be initiated fairly early, I'd say that the head remains outside the water for a while, certainly long enough for the hands to reach a position that is further (in the cycle) than what you describe.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 14:18:02 GMT

When your arms are by your sides, it is primarily your head that determines where your body goes. Your chest is pulsing up and down. How do you convert that vertical energy into horizontal movement? Well, by using your head, literally and figuratively. Its 10-lb weight, a considerable distance from your center of mass, becomes your "rudder." By artfully manipulating it within a fairly small range of relaxed movement, you can channel that energy into mostly-forward movement. This is something that totally eludes me. On a good day I can get my head in sync with my undulation so it helps rather than hinders it, but generating forward movement with my head is something I've never managed. Of course, I have trouble generating forward movement by undulating period. A couple weeks ago we did a drill where we did a flip turn half way down the lane and then were supposed to dolphin kick under water to get going forward again before breaking out. I don't think I moved forward an inch while dolphin kicking. In general I seem to be able to maintain some speed by dolphin kicking or undulating but not generate it, unless of course I have fins on in which case I can accelerate and zoom along quite nicely. :dunno:

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:26:09 GMT

Thanks for taking the time to post your insights. Going to try this one today with the age groupers.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:32:25 GMT

Flying start not a win, I raced the best beat them lots of times but never when it counted, The guys I raced for the 100 Jack Nelson, Bill Yorzyk and the guy who did the 1:00.1 the 1:01:0 is a misprint in the records his time was 1:00:0 Takashi ISHIMOTO JPN 29-06-1958 Los Angeles, CA, USA 1:00.1 Tak and I would do a few 55 yard fly swims at the practice pool near Heidleburg Australia during the 56 Olympics, we partied together after the games.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:27:49 GMT

Wow. You were the best butterflyer in the world at the time. The world record in 1958 was only a 1:01

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:06:42 GMT

In 1958 I swam a relay with a flying start 110yards lc in 59.8 that was my fastest around that time. I started doing fly in 1955. All the Individual events at the games were 200m and I only did the 100. The record for the 100 were as follows 57.0 Luis NICOLAO ARG 27-04-1962 Rio de Janeiro, BRA 58.4 Luis NICOLAO ARG 24-04-1962 Rio de Janeiro, BRA 58.6 Fred SCHMIDT USA 20-08-1961 Los Angeles, CA, USA 58.7 Lance LARSON USA 24-07-1960 Toledo, OH, USA 59.0 Lance LARSON USA 26-06-1960 Los Angeles, CA, USA 1:01.0 Takashi ISHIMOTO JPN 14-09-1958 Kochi, JPN 1:00.1 Takashi ISHIMOTO JPN 29-06-1958 Los Angeles, CA, USA The 59.0 was the first time they broke the minute. I retired from training in 1958 and only swam when the coach asked me to swim in races the only swimming I did was Waterpolo Practices 2 times a week from 1958 til 1963 when I started to train for the marathon races.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 10:59:32 GMT

George When were you "close" to a minute flat in the 100 fly? Or maybe a better question would be how close was close?

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 09:56:37 GMT

Solar here is some butterfly video video.google.ca/videoplay Lots of drafting off a butterfly swimmer.:D Yeah and some wave too ! I didn't know you were hanging around this forum George. I'll show up more often. Do you think those two guys swimming butterfly are actually leading a tri pack during a 1500 ;) ?

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 07:02:34 GMT

Solar here is some butterfly video video.google.ca/videoplay Lots of drafting off a butterfly swimmer.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 06:56:27 GMT

Can video or photo's be posted here? I've got pix to illustrate everything I wrote. Everything? hmmm... let me try to find out how to post some images. The best I could do is to include an attachment. Go and locate the Manage Attachment button. You'll be able to upload some images.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 06:18:39 GMT

Terry I do not profess to be a great coach. I have developed swimmers that coaches love to get their hands on. I know of a couple of the greatest coaches in the USA who could not even swim. I believe teach it simple from the start or when teaching someone who has faults to also make it simple.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 05:58:53 GMT

Hey Terry I have tried to download videos here just put in on Google video and link it. But may be another way???

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sun, 08 Oct 2006 05:58:20 GMT

Can video or photo's be posted here? I've got pix to illustrate everything I wrote. You can attach images, see under Additional Options, Attach Files, just below the first Submit Reply button.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sat, 07 Oct 2006 14:30:21 GMT

Heads up anything should be limited to short swims. We did it for practice for waterpolo, accross the 15 yard wide pool with the ball and pass it off to another swimming in the opposite direction. As far as Heads up butterfly we just changed the position of the legs to be a more verticle dolphin kick, not a horizontall position.

RE: Head-up dolphin kick drill

Former Member — Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:57:37 GMT

I have never tried this drill but I wonder if it is intended to help the swimmer learn to be able to breath during fly without losing good body position? Our coach sometimes has us do head up front crawl, I assume as an open water aid, I don't do it because I haven't figured out a way to do so that doesn't hurt my shoulders. Everyone else seems to do ok so I presume I am missing something... I think my problem is that with my head up I can't get enough of a roll to keep my recovery in front of the plane of my body? Maybe I'm just not in good enough shape to keep myself high enough in the water... Or maybe it is just intended to enforce how hard it is to swim with the head up, i.e. suggest how much easier it is to swim with your head down!