Finest swim of all time

RE: Finest swim of all time

Allen Stark — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:36:43 GMT

Don't forget Mike Barrowman's WR in1992 in the 200 Br. Also Liesel Jones recent 100 and 200 Br. WR's are unbelievable.In one year she moved so far ahead of the rest of the world it's astounding.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:19:27 GMT

100 SCM free at the 2004 NCAA championships. He set a world record from an outside lane (fourth seed, I think). The announcers had barely mentioned his name until the last 25. The camera was never on him Thanks Kim. That the stuff I like to hear. It reminds me of Kerin Perkin's win in the 1500m at Atlanta.Many had written him off before and during the meet.He had been sick and wasn't swimming well.He qualified for the final in Lane 8 which means he definately wasn't going good.You shouldn't just scrape in when your're the Olympic champion.In the final he just went out at a pace he hadn't produced for some time and remarkably held it together.Most people expected him to die but you could soon tell he was a changed swimmer fiom the heats to the final.How he got it back together that quick is a miracle.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:06:45 GMT

I can't see too much I'd disagree with here. For me I think back and remember the swims that made me think "I don't believe that". Janet Evan's 400 Free and then the 800 Free.....as posted .....and she had an interesting style.... Grant Hackett's 1500 Free after Perkins previous mark....as posted..... Ian Thorpe’s 400 Free. Which I think will surprise us and out last them all. And my one that I suggest is above a few on the list is Ian Crocker's 50.4 for 100 Fly......Give him a tumble turn and he'd go 49+......that's Fly not Free and it beats Phelps ???? I agree we've yet to see Phelp's best in IM's... For longevity of performance I agree on Dawn Fraser...she could have won 4 golds...if not for one bureaucrat’s personal agenda... Matt Biondi gets my vote on best meet performance just ahead of Mark Spitz.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:59:05 GMT

Two swims by Ian Crocker -- 100 LCM fly at the 2003 World's in Barcelona. He just out-touched Phelps for the third world record set in that event in 2 days! 100 SCM free at the 2004 NCAA championships. He set a world record from an outside lane (fourth seed, I think). The announcers had barely mentioned his name until the last 25. The camera was never on him!

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:27:19 GMT

Which of Biondi's meets are you comparing to Spitz' 72 Olympics? I'm not looking for an argument Matt Biondi's performance of five golds and four world records at the 1988 Seoul Olympics .He was touched out in the 100fly which makes the performance debatable ....against Spitz effort in 72. Duncan Armstrong in the 200m free was a freak swim. I'm one of those ones who think the late 80’s were just a different world to the early 70's in competition. Pound for pound I think Spitz is a better swimmer. Argue away....it's all very debatable stuff..... I'm not as familiar with Phelps’s overall meet performances? Anyone know his best so far???

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:48:22 GMT

Originally posted by thewookiee Freestyle, short course, I am split between Biondi's 1:33.03 and Simon Burnett's 1:31.20. I saw Burnett's swim in person and the tv coverage certainly didn't do it justice. Just wondering if Burnett came out of the turns with dolphin kicks or flutter? I don't recall Biondi ever doing any dolphins off the walls....but in all likelihood...that's exactly how Phelps broke the 1:33 barrier. It seems like many of the long standing records are being broken by superior turns....aside from the swimming performance. Jim Montgomery's 49 second hundred free had the same tempo as Hoogie's world record 47. Except Jim swam with a drag suit...had no goggles...and did a torpedo launch start rather than a single hole entry.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:51:25 GMT

I would recommended Melvin Stewart's 200 fly from the 1991 NCAA Championships. He went 1:41.78, which is still the meet record. For backstroke, David Berkoff's 54.95 at the 1988 Olympic Trials. That changed the backstroke. Short Couse, Neil Walker's 1997 swim at the NCAA's of 44.92. This was simply an super swim to watch. Freestyle, short course, I am split between Biondi's 1:33.03 and Simon Burnett's 1:31.20. I saw Burnett's swim in person and the tv coverage certainly didn't do it justice. For the I.M, both short and long course go to Tom Dolan. His swim at the 2000 games was amazging, esp. after most everyone wrote him off. Then the 1995 NCAA's, the 400 IM was breath taking. His whole meet was breath taking that year. My $.02 cents worth

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Wed, 07 Jun 2006 06:11:52 GMT

David, Which of Biondi's meets are you comparing to Spitz' 72 Olympics? I'm not looking for an argument; I'm not as familiar with Biondi's career, and I am curious as to what you think was his best meet. Matt

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:59:00 GMT

Grany Hackett's 14:34 for the mile is really an amazing achievement. Basically he's traveling at just over 58 seconds flat ~ per hundred meters. (That translates to 100 yards repeats at roughly 50+ seconds each.) And he looks like he's in slow motion while doing it. ...Tom Dolan's 500 free was quite a show too. (Out in 47 sec. on the first 100...and :49 for the remaining four. ) Wow.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:54:54 GMT

Bearing in mind that "finest swim" is a slippery concept, that can be defined any number of ways, and each different definition will generate a different answer... Here is my list of swims that are worth mentioning: - Mark Spitz' last swim at the 72 Olympics, because it was his seventh event, his seventh Olympic Championship, and most impressive of all, his seventh World Record, all in the same meet. The only person who has ever come close to such a dominating performance at one meet was Michael Phelps at the 2003 World Championships. - Mary T. Meagher's 200 fly World Record at Browndear WI. A record that was so far ahead of the rest of the world, including the steroid enhanced East Germans, that no one broke it for 20 years. Her 100 fly World Record at the same meet lasted almost as long, and runs a close second in this category. - Vladimir Salnikov's sub-15 minute 1500m. Most of us (experienced competitive swimmers) would consider any race swum at 100m in less than 1 minute a sprint. Salnikov's performance officially turned swimming's "endurance" event into a 15 minute sprint. - The Australian Men's 400 Free Relay World Record at the 2000 Olympics. They didn't just break the Record, they broke it by 2 seconds, in a race that normally sees its Record broken by hundreths of a second. AND, they needed every hundreth to beat the U.S. because the Americans were also 2 seconds under the old Record. This was one of the best relay races in Olympic history. Gary Hall famously declared that he and his relay-mates would smash the Aussies like guitars. He probably had a good faith reason to say that because he likely knew from their practice sessions the relay would be something special. He did not know the Aussie team would be all that, and a little bit more. - Janet Evans' 800 & 1500 World Records. They are approaching 18 years old and rivaling Mary T's Records for longevity. - Michael Phelps' 100 Fly World Record in the Semi-Finals of the 2003 World Championships. That was his second World Record of the same session. He had earlier broken the World Record in the Finals of the 200 IM. No one else has ever broken two World Records in the same session of a swim meet. BTW, if Ian Crocker hadn't had an unconscious swim in the 100 Fly finals the following night, in turn breaking Phelps' new Record, Michael would have had 4 individual Championships and 4 World Records in that meet. Given that his events were longer than Spitz' at Munich, and that he had to do 3 swims instead of 2 for every event except the 400 IM, Michael's performance at 2003 Worlds is pretty darn close to Mark Spitz' at the 1972 Olympics. - Inge de Bruin's 50 free in the 2004 Olympics. She has so thoroughly dominating women's sprinting at the last two Olympics that one of her American rivals sarcastically called Inge a man after Inge beat her. - Amanda Beard's 200 IM Silver Medal at the 2004 Olympics. Only in her early 20s and already she's won Medals in three Olympic Games. As she gets older, she keeps breaking *** stroke World Records, and gets prettier, and her repetoire adds events, as you can see from this finish in an "off" event for her. - Gary Hall's defense of his 50 free Olympic title in the 2004 Olympics. It's not only the fact that as an "older" swimmer he repeated as Olympic Champion. He did so as an insulin dependent diabetic, AND created new training techniques and methods that differed from conventional methods for training sprinters, AND formed a new swim club who used these methods, leading to one other Olympic finalist from his club. We're talking Lance Armstrong territory in terms of recovering from a serious medical condition and creative new training techniques. - The U.S. Women's 800 Free World Record at the 2004 Olympics. It erased the last steroid tainted, East German World Record; 'nuff said. - Grant Hackett's defense of his 1500 Title in the 2004 Olympics. It's not only that he's dominated the 1500, winning every major title and lowering the World Record substantially from his predecessor Kieren Perkins, who was all that and more taking over from the first man under 15 minutes. At Athens, he held off the fastest 1500 every swam by an American (the other swimming superpower), with an injury, to his chest!! - Johnny Weismuller's first sub-minute 100m free. This started the X00 under X minutes benchmark for excellence in sprinting. - The South African Men's 400 Free Relay World Record in 2004. The Springboks took down the two big boys looking for a rematch of their race from Sydney (coming from a smaller swimming nation like South Africa, that is already pretty impressive). They also broke the previous Australian World Record, which was itself nearly unimaginable. SO, the U.S. Record is now only the 3rd fastest swim of all time, in an event the Americans had never lost prior to 2000. WOW! - I'm sure there is also a swim from Alexandre Popov that belongs in this category, but I am not knowledgable enough about his career to name the signature swim ('course, it could be his 50 Free World Record from 2000 that still stands, duh!) Now my prediction for the finest swim of the future: Michael Phelps breaking 4 minutes in the 400 IM. Hey, he's already 5 seconds under the previous World Record holder, Tom "The King" Dolan. Matt

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:51:15 GMT

I would add these two: Misty Hyman's 200 fly in Sydney Tom Dolan's 500 free at NCAAs in March 1995 (4:08.75)

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:29:09 GMT

Sydney - I remember reading something about Manadou's swim but it isn't yet on the Fina site. ANY of Janet Evans' record swims are candidates for best swims ever.....

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:23:39 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck there is a best swim around the corner every day. PROPHETIC!! Nicely summarized. Mark

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:07:20 GMT

Best swim of all time is revelant to the time you lived in and the progress of technique. Who swam better then Johnny Weismuller in his time. I never saw him swim at his best I was not around but there is a best swim around the corner every day.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 15:32:58 GMT

How about the 8:16 in the 800?????????????????

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:36:47 GMT

Um actually, Laure Manadou beat Janet's record this past May. She swam a 4:03:03.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:06:00 GMT

Although I am not personally very interested in distance events, Janet Evans 400 free LCM world record swim of 4:03.84 in 1988 (Seoul Olympics) is a damned impressive swim. She negative split the race - 2:02.14 and 2:01.71. The record still stands. A full story about this race: www.connmasters.org/.../The Perfect Race-JEvans 400 free Seoul.pdf

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 13:36:28 GMT

Frank Thompson said: Hoffam: You must mean American Record because they show it as a US Open and a NCAA Record in the Meet Records section of the USA Swimming website. And you know why he can hold an American Record. I was looking at the event history file, which is apparently not as current as the meet records file. Yes I understand Bousquet cannot have the American record since he is French.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Frank Thompson — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 12:46:26 GMT

Dobbie: I think your a brave soul to bring this up. You will probably never get anybody to agree with what the greatest swim of all time is because people will come up with an arguements as to why one performance is better than the other. As my friend Phil Whitten says "whenever a writer puts together a list of the greatest anythings, someone older, someone more knowledgeable or simply someone with a better memory is sure to write saying, "How could you possibly have left out so-and-so?" With that being said I will give you what I think are some of the greatest performances of all time based on the length of years the person either set a FINA World Record or an American Record. The reason I am bringing in American Records is because you would exclude some great Short Course Yard swims by people. So here are some of the ones I can think of and there is no particular rank of what is greater, just swims that I feel are some of the best in history of the sport. Dawn Fraser's 100 Free World Record and performances would have to be considered. Dawn is the first swimmer to win an Olympic event (100 Free) in 3 straight Olympics and probably would have won a fourth in 1968, but could not compete for political reasons. But the real reason I would consider her is because she held the World Record from 1956 to 1972. In 1956, she lost the WR to two swimmers but got it back by the end of the year and lowered it 9 times to the time of :58.9 in 1964. That record was broken in 1972 by Shane Gould with a time of :58.5. What is interesting is that her time would have been competitive in the 1972 Olympics and who knows if she would have been permitted to swim, she could have possibly won 5 gold medals in the same event at five Olympic games. Kristini Egerszegi's 200 Back World Record and performances would have to be considered also. Kristini is the second person to win an Olympic event (200 Back) in 3 straight Olympics and probably would have won the 100 Back had she elected to swim that event at the 1996 Olympics for 2 straight in that event. Her split in the Medley relay was faster than the winning time in the 100 Back. But again the real reason I would consider this to be one of the best is the World Record time of 2:06.62, which still stands today. Also this swim was done with the old back stroke turn rule which is a lot slower than the turns people are doing today. This record was set in 1991 and has lasted 16 years. Mary T Meager's World Records in both the 100 and 200 Fly have to be considered for both LCM and SCY. Mary T first set the 100 Meter Fly record in 1980 at :59.26 and then lowered it to :57.93 in 1981 and that record stood until 1999 when Jenny Thompson broke it with a :57.88. So she owned the World Record for almost 20 years. The 200 Meter Fly record was set first in 1979 and she lowered her record to 2:05.96 in 1981. That record was broken by Susan O'Neil with a 2:05.81 in 2000. So she owned the World Record for almost 21 years. Johnny Weismuller's World Records in the 100 Meter and 100 Yard Freestyle have to be considered. All of his Yard swims were considered World Records at the time he swam because FINA recognized them and all World Records in Yards until 1957. He held the 100 Meter World Record from 1922 until 1934. He set the World Record in the 100 Meter Free in 1922 at :58.6 and lowered it to :57.4 in the 1924 Olympics. It stood there until Peter Fick broke it with a :56.8 in 1934. The 100 Yard record was set in 1927 at :51.4 at the Univ. of Michigan. It was tied by 4 guys in the early 1940's. I personally knew one of the 4 guys (Bill Prew) and it was finally broken in 1944 by Alan Ford of Yale. It was rumored that Johnny swam an incredible :48.5 while training with Walter Spence, but he was a professional and retired by then so unlike today it could not be counted. Adolph Kiefer records in the Backstroke have to be considered especially the 100 Meter and 100 Yard records. He set his first 100 Meter record in 1935 and lowered it to time of 1:04.8 in 1936 and it stood until 1948 when Alan Stack lower it to a 1:04.0. He also had the old 150 Yard Back stroke record for about 14 years. One of his best records was his High School record in the 100 Yard Back in a 20 Yard pool which stood for 23 years. I believe he went in the high :57's and it was not broken until Lou Schafer did in the high :56's in 1958. The next year Lou Schafer broke the American Record in the 100 Yard Back as a High School swimmer with a :55.2 so that record was broken by a very good swimmer. These are just some and I am sure there are more out there that people can come up with. This kind of thing can be fun as long as disagreements and arguements are not personal and no one is absolutely right.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Jeff Commings — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:20:59 GMT

That doesn't mean we can't pick Janet's swim as the best of all time, which I do. Besides the actuall swim, there was national glory on the line. The doped-up East Germans vs. the Valley Girl. And she trounced them. It's amazing that before Manaudou, no one came within a second of the record. That says a lot.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:57:28 GMT

George Breen set worlds record heat 1500 m 1956 Olympics. Lost in slower time. Bill Yorzyk wins 200 m Butterfly at 1956 Olympics. Two of the best swims I have witnessed. Of course this was before anyone knew how to swim. Almost forgot Dawn Fraser she was great but was always in trouble for her antics.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:02:14 GMT

Skip, I tip my cap to your comments. Very good points, and I enthusiastically support your comments about Grant Hackett. For all the recognition he does receive, he is still the most underated Olympic Champion of recent history. Think about it, without Ian Thorpe, Hackett would have dominated the 400 free, and be right there with Hoogie and Michael Phelps in the 200. The way people train for world class 1500 racing, especially the Aussies, you just don't see 1500 swimmers able to do that well in the shorter races. Hackett is just amazing; Phelps and Thorpe are the only two other people in his league. I'm not sure I agree that Michael Phelps has less time left to develope now than Gary Hall did when he broke the WR in high school. Fer cryin' out loud, Michael is still a college student. He's not an NCAA scholarship athlete, but he's still the same age as those folks. He is still improving by leaps and bounds in some of his events; indeed, he is still adding events to his schedule. And most important of all, the economics of swimming have changed such that he can continue to make a good living, and still perform at a World Class level through his 20s. Seeing him compete in the 2008 and 2012 Olympics would not be a stretch at all, and if he keeps working his strokes, especially the *** stroke where World Class *** strokers can really make up time in the IMs, I think 3:59 is possible.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 09:53:12 GMT

Some remarkable swims and swimmers have been mentioned. As a distance swimmer myself I too find the swims of Grant Hackett pretty awesome. However, at the other end of the spectrum I'm surprised no one's yet mentioned Alex Popov - double Olympic Gold medallist in successive Olympics and virtually untouchable over a decade. Add to that his unfortunate (!!!) stabbing incident and he still comes back and competes at top level!!! Amazing!

RE: Finest swim of all time

Former Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 07:37:55 GMT

To read about Manadou breaking Janet Evans's 400m free record, try this link: www.olympics.com.au/news.cfm And yes, Evans's swim is remarkable nonetheless.

RE: Finest swim of all time

Frank Thompson — Tue, 06 Jun 2006 07:08:33 GMT

Matt: What I meant to say was the % of time drop that Michael would have to do compared to Gary Hall way back when. I believe as you get lower in minutes and seconds that time drops of like 8 to 10 seconds are much more impressive and harder because you are going lower and there is not that much time left in comparrison to the total time. An example is if someone went 3:33.00 or 3:30 or under in the 400 Meter Free breaking Ian Thorpe's record by 10 seconds or under that would be incredible and similar to what your saying about the 400 IM. If you look at the history of the 400 Meter Free World Record there has not been a drop like that since Johnny Weissmuller from the 1920's. Tim Shaw dropped 5 seconds from the record in the 1970's and that is the biggest drop in that event in a long time. I think has records get harder in the future big time drops will be harder to get and if they come they will be more impressive that the drops done in the past. That is why this year at the 2066 NCAA Championships everyone was impressed by Simon Burnett's time in the 200 Free of 1:31 because he broke the record by a full second and no one has done that in a long time and the % is greater because it has a base of 92 seconds.