Winter Olympics as a game of chance

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:30:51 GMT

Originally posted by cinc310 A swimmer has to win a gold medal in the oympics to do this. So true! Not only win 1 gold, but usually a record setting number of gold medals.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

knelson — Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:38:37 GMT

Originally posted by cinc310 Now, I have been aware of who she was for sometime and she has two world silver medals but when it was silver medal in the olympics, some appearances on national TV. A swimmer has to win a gold medal in the oympics to do this. On the other hand, in figure skating there is exactly one gold medal awarded every four years for ladies singles. In swimming there are 25 Olympic golds by my count, including relays. Yeah, if you count pairs and ice dancing there are a total of 3 golds available to women in figure skating, but that's still a lot fewer than 25.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Sat, 04 Mar 2006 15:48:18 GMT

I noticed the difference between the treastment of Sasha Cohen silver medalist in figure skating than swimmers. She has been able to appeared on talk shows like Leno and Regis and Kelly when they were recently in La,Jimmy Kimmel, and Ellen. Now, I have been aware of who she was for sometime and she has two world silver medals but when it was silver medal in the olympics, some appearances on national TV. A swimmer has to win a gold medal in the oympics to do this. Figure Skating is watch more by the general public also because of the ice shows which are entertaining.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:30:06 GMT

IMHO the poor performance by the US and Canadian hockey teams was compounded by the NHL work stoppage last year. Most US and Canadian born players did little on ice training, whereas many more of the European born players returned to their home country elite leagues and got reaquainted with playing on the bigger ice surface. It's easier to adapt to playing on a small NHL ice surface after playing most of your formative years on the larger Olympic size surface. In a swimming perspective one would find it much easier to adapt from long course metres to short course yards than vice versa.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:24:34 GMT

1) "Game of chance" Yes, that is why skiing and other winter sports are popular. You don't know who is going to win, miss a gate, or have a NASCAR'ish crack up. That is why people will freeze their you-know-whats off to watch the thing, while we swimmers have a hard time getting people to enjoy a taste of summer weather watching our meets. Their sport is compelling and watchable, whereas most knowledgable fans in our sport could fill out the order of finishers before the race with 90% accuracy. I'm a broken record on this subject, so I won't wax fulsome, but competitive swimming could use a little of the edginess of short track speed skating. Snowboard-cross! We need some of that there. 2) NHL players in the Winter Olympics. OK, can we now all come to consensus that this is a BAD idea? How many times do we need to have it beaten in our heads that TEAMS that play together for months ahead of time will consistently beat All-Star squads tossed together at the last minute. Did we learn nothing from Herb Brooks and the 1980 Olympic hockey competition? Has anyone checked which teams won the last few Superbowls and what was their concept? Any Randy Mosses, Terrel Owens, or Peyton Mannings in that crowd? No? Didn't think so. Anyone checked out how the Pistons are playing in the NBA lately, with no legit superstars? How many rings does Iverson have? Oh, BTW, when was the last time the Yankees won the Series; it's been so long that I forget. And don't get me started on the meager results the recent NBA "Dream Teams" have generated in international competition. The people who are dreaming are the chowder-heads that think you can slap together a group of supertalented individuals and expect them to beat a cohesive unit. So, tell the NHL to keep their players unless they are willing to skip the entire first part of the season up through the Olympics. (Besides, what effect does that really have on who makes the playoffs anyway?)

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:53:15 GMT

Aquageek, OK, you got me on the Yankees. I would point out two things. Short of swimming, baseball is the sport with the least teamwork between the players (yeah, yeah, battery-mates, double-play combinations, hit & run, sacrifice bunting, etc. etc. It still can't hold a candle to the intricate teamwork of football, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc. etc.) and that is best suited for throwing together a pack of all-stars. Also, the Yankees may sign away all the most highly regarded players, but then they have the same spring training and 162 game season as everyone else does to play as a team. When you put talent and teamwork together, well you get the Yankees. But please note that even the Yankees with an unlimited payroll still don't always guess right as to who the best players will be, and that leaves a door open for a cohesive team like the White Sox or the Red Sox recently. Regarding the NBA, don't get me wrong. I have great respect for Iverson's skills and I think he is a future Hall of Famer. Also, the Pistons are my favorite team, to the extent I follow the dull as dirt NBA. However, I don't see any future HoFers on the current Piston team. Rasheed Wallace? The malcontent under-achiever the Trailbrazers couldn't unload fast enough? He has played great in the Piston's system, but that is my point exactly. It's the system, not marquee, future HoF guys that win championships. The Wallaces, Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billips are terrific players, but no one is going to confuse them with Iverson, Karl Malone, John Stockton or Charles Barkley in their prime, and BTW, how many rings to those four distinguished players have? So, back to my main point. You can't evaluate team sports with a rotissery league mindset. "Dream Teams" are more illusion than reality. Give me a coach with a vision, and solid players that understand their rolls, and I'll embarass your all-stars more often than you would expect. There, this has been a fun, bar-stooling conversation. A pleasure chit-chatting with you. Matt

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

knelson — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:38:17 GMT

Originally posted by Matt S 2) NHL players in the Winter Olympics. OK, can we now all come to consensus that this is a BAD idea? How many times do we need to have it beaten in our heads that TEAMS that play together for months ahead of time will consistently beat All-Star squads tossed together at the last minute. I hate to tell you this, but Sweden won the gold and nearly all their team plays in the NHL. Their big stars are all NHL players (Sundin, Lidstrom, Forsberg).

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

aquageek — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:29:37 GMT

The year the Red Sox won the World Series, they had the second highest payroll in the MLB. The White Sox had the 13th highest payroll last year. The Yankees payroll is staggering but they get the return on that. As to Rasheed, this is a swim forum, but suffice it to say anyone who knows a thing about the NBA knows that Rasheed is not an underachiever and has changed the definition of a power forward. ESPN actually had some graphics last week about his impact on the Pistons. It was very revealing. You claim you could take a team of roll players and beat a dream team. There hasn't been a team like that to win the WS, the NCAA tourney, the BCS series, NCAA swim championships, NCAA soccer, etc, in years and years. Maybe in HS you can have roll players win but no longer in college and pros. Those days are long over.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

aquageek — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:27:32 GMT

Originally posted by Matt S Anyone checked out how the Pistons are playing in the NBA lately, with no legit superstars? How many rings does Iverson have? Oh, BTW, when was the last time the Yankees won the Series; it's been so long that I forget. OK, Matt, I'll agree with you on hockey but you have absolutely no clue whatsoever on the NBA or MLB. First, the Yankess are probably the greatest sports franchise of all time. The only other teams that even come close to their dominance are the 60s Celtics (loaded with talent) and the great college teams of UCLA (also loaded with talent). Second, even though it's been a few years since they won it all, they compete for it every year, usually up to the ALCS. Lasty, name the last small market, low salary MLB team to win the series. Big money and big talent win in MLB, it's been that way for 100 years. Allen Iverson has single handedly pushed the 76ers well beyond what they were capable on their own. Anyone with a shred of basketball knowledge recognizes this. Sure he's brash but he's also one of the greatest and most durable point guards in the history of the NBA. Pistons - no legit superstars? Do you watch the NBA? The had 4 of the 12 EC All Star game spots. The Pistons have probably the most loaded across the board superstars in the league. Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace are among the most recognizeable and popular players in the league. Most teams would trade their top two players for Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton (except the Heat, of course). Stick to hockey and swimming in your analyses.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:52:49 GMT

Who would have wagered that the Canadian men's hockey team ( wait a minute, that's a oxymoron ) would finish out of medal round and get shut out in 3 games? Guess they left Turin under a shroud of controversy...........sorry couldn't resist. Go Suomi Go!!!

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:15:15 GMT

I too wonder if they would finished their program.They did, Pairs skating is sometimes very dangerious. Its the most dangerious event of figure skating because of the throws and a quad throw at that. Also, sometimes the partners accidently drop their partners when the do lifts.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Allen Stark — Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:32:00 GMT

My vote for the gutsiest perfpomance of the games goes to the Chinese woman in the Pairs. I'm surprised she could walk after that fall let alone skate beautifully.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:11:20 GMT

Originally posted by Allen Stark My vote for the gutsiest perfpomance of the games goes to the Chinese woman in the Pairs. I'm surprised she could walk after that fall let alone skate beautifully. Must have been the roids... (Sorry, it's a joke, I just couldn't resist the temptation)

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:11:20 GMT

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:24:18 GMT

Originally posted by knelson So don't be too hard on Bode Miller... There's nothing wrong with trying your hardest and not winning the gold. In fact, I always wonder why people think a silver or bronze medal is a "loss." But, geez, Miller's attitude stinks. If he wants out of the lime light, then he should return all of his endorsement money and go be a ski instructor. He acts like he doesn't even want to be at the Olympics. Last time I checked, participation was voluntary.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:26:11 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek Give me a break! The guy grew up in a cabin is the reason for his odd behavior? He's an elite athlete in his sport. He obviously loves competition and the perks he gets from being at the elite level. He doesn't seem to mind flying all over the world, partying his ass off and enjoying the good life but yet we should say he doesn't do as well as we would like because he grew up in a cabin. My ppoint is I think he struggles with what he really wants. He grew up thinking that material possessions aren't important now he lives (and yes, enjoys) in a very materialistic world. And as you said he is an elite athlete. He wins world championships because time after time he places fourth or fifth not because he goes in and dominates everything. World championships are decided based off of World Cup points, he is the most consistent not necessarily winning the most. There is a big difference. And yes, I know he is now living quite a life and so are his parents.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:36:50 GMT

Originally posted by knelson Not sure I get your point. Are you saying lots of Japanese women do run marathons, or don't? Height doesn't seem to be a requirement to run marathons well. The African distance runners, for example, are typically on the small side. Anyway, it's obviously a combination of things. Koreans excel at the sport because it's popular in Korea and their body types tend to be suited to it. How do you explain Koreans & Japanese love of baseball. That definitely shows that sprots are truly influneced by specific cultural experiences. Korea, like the Netherlands has many small streams that freeze duringthe winter. Those streams were used like highways for transportation. About Bode Miller. His parents don't live in a cabin anymore. HIs RV is completely luxurious. What do most people think about all of the famioly & personal history inthe stories this morning about the snowboard jumper? I'm not sure we needed to know all the personal details that most stories gave.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:37:12 GMT

I grew up in the shed in the backyard of my parents house....does that make me a freak too?

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

knelson — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:12:13 GMT

Originally posted by SwiminONandON he is the most consistent not necessarily winning the most. Actually I'll disagree with this. Bode is horribly inconsistent. The dude is a loose cannon. He might blow everyone else off the course or he might hook the first gate. You just never know with the guy. Of course this makes him exciting, but also frustrating to watch. The material thing doesn't really hold much wtaer, IMO. I just don't see an Olympic medal as a "material possession." The athletes aren't there working their butts off because they think the medals are pretty. :)

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

aquageek — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:54:14 GMT

To me that whole grew up in a cabin story is just another story to fill times between events. Who gives a rat's behind? If he won gold, the cabin thing would be flipped the other way and all skiers would start living in cabins with hippies.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

knelson — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:08:27 GMT

Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com How do you explain Koreans & Japanese love of baseball. That definitely shows that sprots are truly influneced by specific cultural experiences. Korea, like the Netherlands has many small streams that freeze duringthe winter. Those streams were used like highways for transportation. No, I agree with that, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are going to dominate in those sports. Lots of Filipinos like to play basketball, but I still don't think their Olympic medal chances are good. Interesting note about speed skating in Holland. Apparently it became poplular in the 19th century because of the "mini ice age" that occurred in that century. Canals often froze over then that rarely if ever do now (according to "A Short History of Nearly Everything" by Bill Bryson).

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

aquageek — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:06:40 GMT

Originally posted by SwiminONandON Before you rip on Bode too much take his childhood into account. He grew up in a cabin with no electricity or running water with totally hippie parents. Material possession (medals included) aren't important in that culture. Give me a break! The guy grew up in a cabin is the reason for his odd behavior? He's an elite athlete in his sport. He obviously loves competition and the perks he gets from being at the elite level. He doesn't seem to mind flying all over the world, partying his ass off and enjoying the good life but yet we should say he doesn't do as well as we would like because he grew up in a cabin.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:05:10 GMT

Before you rip on Bode too much take his childhood into account. He grew up in a cabin with no electricity or running water with totally hippie parents. Material possession (medals included) aren't important in that culture. Now add in the environment of competitive skiing where material possessions are prized. Bode wants to ski not be a star. He wants the bucks because he doesn't want a "real job". He is not a "real job" kind of guy. He has some really great and really healthy philosophies. He skis because he loves the speed, the challenge, the rush and all that. He races the clock not his opponents, much like swimming. He realizes he cannot control what anyone else does so he focuses on himself. I also think Bode is trying to sort out the two lifestyles right now and figure out what works for him and who he wants to be. He is a great guy!

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:38:04 GMT

I mean the Koreans like the short track and do good in it. You can be shorter in height unlike swimming where you have to be over 6' foot for a guy. I was replying to Bryan Gumbel that made a remark about the winter olympics being too lily white. I was saying that short track has a lot of different people and there are a look of Koreans and others good at it.

RE: Winter Olympics as a game of chance

Former Member — Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:22:36 GMT

First, is diving a sport? Second, Koreans are into short track not because they are little but probably because of some cultural significane of the sport to them. Why through this definititon, would so many Janpanese women run marathons? Three, The number of curling clubs inthe US is exploding, umlike bowling which is losing participants at high rates. It still seems very boring to me. It seems to me to be more like chess or a board . Four, I know lots of guys my age and slightly younger who started swimming because of Mark Spitz. Five, to argue that judges are in swimming to detect cheating is only have of the point. Judges in sport are there to maintain the rules and how the rules are followed by participants. Everytime a swimmer goes off of a block at the begining of a race, that swimmer is being judged. The judge may not appoint a value to the start dive by a judgement is being made. Six, just how tall is janet Evans? If I understand correctly, for an event to be in the Olympics, there must be an international federation that establishes and maintains rules and requirements for the specific sport.