Do you smoke.smoke!

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 17:43:56 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek OK, Capt Cardiologist, let's delve deeper. Henceforth, you may address me as "Medical God." By the way, did I mention that you're lazy and stupid?

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 17:20:29 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek My wife and my best friend's wife are on thyroid medication but they were never fat. You shouldn't generalize based on soley your experiences. I don't see where I said everyone who suffers from hypothryroid is fat. What I did say was that I had spoken to a lot of overweight women who had had the same experience with doctors that I have had. We are dismissed as lazy and stupid and not worthy of the 'medical god's' help. I see the point about some older smokers getting hooked when they were younger. I feel for those folks... my mom is one and I've seen her try to quit many times, she goes through out and out withdrawal, shakes, sweating, nausia, headaches, etc. She has yet to be successful. Lainey

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:57:34 GMT

The fact is that obesity is an independent risk factor for heart disease and leads to hypertension and diabetes.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:43:32 GMT

The problem with all these blanket rules (let's limit health coverage to anyone over X% body fat) is that there are just too many exceptions. What do you do with someone like Lynne Cox, the long-distance swimmer? I remember reading that her body fat is something like 35%, but she's clearly a tremendous athlete and in better shape than the majority of Americans.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:44:04 GMT

why do you think McDonalds is putting ingredient & nutritional information on the wrappers of its food?

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:21:34 GMT

Geek is right. The majority of overwieght Americans (50-60% of the population) are not hypothyroid. The problem for most of them is lack of exercise and an atrocious diet. Several years ago I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, at which time my TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone, which increases when there is inadequate circulating thyroid hormone) was 117 (normal being about 1-2). Nothing subtle about that, although I wasn't that symptomatic. I was swimming regularly (much less than I am now, however) and weighed 170 pounds. You know the difference between God and a Cardiologist? God knows He's not a Cardiologist.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:09:09 GMT

Actually laineybug I feel that some smokers are in fact unfairly dicriminated against by insurance companies.....and here's why I feel that way:.....Many older generation smokers (who haven't died yet of complications) were not given the same kind of information about the dangers of smoking that is available today.....In fact smoking was promoted as a somewhat glamorous habbit up untill around the 60's or so by many industries including the movie industry (and the tobacco industry of course).....Couple that with the fact that big tobacco companies have been found guilty of deliberately skewing the facts about the dangers of smoking for years (please don't take this as a prelude to another political debate however!).......I feel it is unfair for the millions of Americans who were then drawn in to becoming addicted to this HIGHLY addictive substance to now have to face higher financial burdens in thier insurance premiums as a result.....Granted many of the younger generation should know better.....but I believe the tobacco industry has spent lots of money targeting the youth of America with thier ads......So I for one think that the tobacco industry should pay much (if not all) of the extra insurance premiums for most of these smokers.....I know many of y'all will vehemently disagree with me on this....and that's fine....I'm just giving my opinion on the subject....not trying to pick any fights with anyone.....If you disagree with my opinion then I will respect your differing opinions. Newmastersswimmer

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:11:55 GMT

Originally posted by newmastersswimmer Aaah.....What's this Marijuana stuff y'all keep talkin about??.....Seriously though.....That Refer Madness movie was right on in my opinion...LOL!! Newmastersswimmer p.s. Geochuck.....From what I understand, Marijuana should be the national plant of Canada!....at least for places like Toronto and Vancouver....More LOL!! Did you know Chong from Cheech and Chong was a Canadian.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:01:39 GMT

I know why I am overweight I eat too much and don't train enough. But some of the Doc's are nuts. When I was in top form 218 lbs - 6'3" - my chest was 52 inches and yet he said by my height I should weigh 180 lbs. I did not smoke. Hypothyroidism is it related to Graves disease? I tried to smoke at 21 years of age but the smoke seemed to seer my lungs.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:46:21 GMT

Geek, there is a huge difference between smoking and folks who have a serious weight problem. Smoking is clearly a choice that has been made by the person. Granted, you can choose to over eat or not eat right, and you can choose to exercise or not. However, weight MAY not be under a person's control. I read somewhere, but I don't remember the source, that if a person was more that 30? pounds overweight that there was a huge probablility that there was a medical condition impacting their weight. And the sad thing is that most doctors are biased against overweight individuals in the same way you are. I know this is from personal experience. For years and years and years I would go to my doctors and complain about weight gain and get the same ole tired advice, eat low fat, exercise more... nothing more, no questions about what I actually was eating, no questions about how much/what I was exercising, no questions about other symptoms, no lets do some tests to see if there is something going on. In other words they ASSUMED it was MY FAULT I was gaining weight (and from talking to other women with weight problems they have gotten the same treatement from the medical community, so it just wasn't my doctors). I finally got to the point where I would insist on tests but when the results came back outside of normal limits guess what the docs said? "It's not yet at a level I feel comfortable treating," or would just out and out lie and tell me the results were within "expected ranges." I finally became so disgusted with the 'medical gods' I stopped going completely and the extra pounds kept coming. By the time the doc of integrative medicine openned down here I was displaying about 95% of the symptoms of hypothyroidism and could barely get out of bed in the morning and would drag around all day because I had such a lack of energy. I decided to give intergrative medicine a try. Guess what? The new doc took one look at my records and said he couldn't believe I had never been prescribed thyroid because my tests had been coming back outside of normal range for years. So next time all of you folks out there see someone who is overweight don't be so fast to judge them. Their weight may not be their fault and they may have been trying to get help with it but have been brushed off due to predjudice and bias.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:33 GMT

Aaah.....What's this Marijuana stuff y'all keep talkin about??.....Seriously though.....That Refer Madness movie was right on in my opinion...LOL!! Newmastersswimmer p.s. Geochuck.....From what I understand, Marijuana should be the national plant of Canada!....at least for places like Toronto and Vancouver....More LOL!!

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:20:51 GMT

Rules, rules, rules, my one grandson wanted to join the armed forces of Canada, the would not accept him because he had smoked pot within the last six months. Too many rules - I guess our country is going to pot. But after they found out the bud he had was a Budweiser they changed their mind and welcomed him with open arms..

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:47:29 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 By the way, did I mention that you're lazy and stupid? Not in the past few days.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:30:40 GMT

Originally posted by laineybug We are dismissed as lazy and stupid and not worthy of the 'medical god's' help. You really need to be careful of these blanket statements based on your experiences. There are many caring doctors who do their best to help obese people. It's not the doctor's responsibility to get them up in the morning and tell them to hit the track or pool.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:22:30 GMT

OK, Capt Cardiologist, let's delve deeper. If we have genetically identical folks (twins, for example), ignoring everything else, who is more likely to have health issues, the twin who smokes but is at ideal BMI or other weight measure of your choosing OR the twin who is obese but does not smoke?

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:25:54 GMT

Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com why do you think McDonalds is putting ingredient & nutritional information on the wrappers of its food? To prevent the catchup from landing on your tie while driving and eating a Big Mac.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:14:37 GMT

Just to let (you all my Georgian accent) know because of my age and pills I take, I have to pay $30. a day to travel in the USA and keep my Canadian health insurance care coverage. or 3000 a year for me and $675. a year for my wife she takes no pills.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:57:52 GMT

Oh Geek, you assumed that I've lived in S. GA all those years! It was someone in S. GA, that finally got it right, but I've seen docs from Athens to Atlanta to Frankfurt, Germany.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:34:44 GMT

Originally posted by newmastersswimmer So I for one think that the tobacco industry should pay much (if not all) of the extra insurance premiums for most of these smokers..... Should McDonald's or Frito-Lays pay the rest?

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:49:44 GMT

Originally posted by laineybug ...that if a person was more that 30? pounds overweight that there was a huge probablility that there was a medical condition impacting their weight. And the sad thing is that most doctors are biased against overweight individuals in the same way you are. Let me make sure I understand, some new and mystical medical affliction has suddently descended on mostly Americans in the past 30 years but not on other industrialized countries. We've done a heck of a job quarantining the fat epidemic to just our borders. There are certainly those who are obese due to medical conditions but not the 33% of tubby Americans have this. I do not understand why we are allowed to discriminate against smokers on medical policies but not against fat people? Both are (mostly) self induced conditions with equally bad medical consequences. What about a fat smoker? My wife and my best friend's wife are on thyroid medication but they were never fat. You shouldn't generalize based on soley your experiences.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:10:23 GMT

Accept responsibility? What do you think going to doctor after doctor for years asking them to help would be called? What do you think keeping food logs for years would be called? What do you think walking about an hour every morning (depending on when I get up) and and swimming 90 minutes every afternoon is called? Now what would you call it, if a patient's tests clearly show a need for a certain drug and it isn't prescribed? For years, it isn't prescribed? What would you call it when a doctor questions your food log--the insuation being that I wasn't telling the truth about what I was eating? Accept responsibility is just another way of saying your lazy and stupid. Lainey

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:11:00 GMT

Originally posted by laineybug You have to sign a statement you haven't smoked in the last 12 months. If you have there is a hefty smoker's surcharge. And, if you insure any of your dependents, they fall under the same regs. You sign a statement for each one saying they haven't smoked, if they have you pay a surcharge for each dependent that smokes. AND if you are caught not telling the truth you stand to lose your insurance. This is a good idea as it makes people accountable for their health care costs, to a certain degree. I'd also advocate doing this for obese folks.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 06:12:18 GMT

I care. Seriously, I'm not convinced that obesity is always self-inflicted. Clearly genetics plays a role, and there are very likely other factors yet to be discovered.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

Former Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 06:05:53 GMT

Gull, that is "medical god" No caps Yes there is some generalization, but as I said before, I've talked to a lot of women who have had the same experience and they feel the same way I do... and my experience isn't limited to one doctor, once... it is many doctors over many years. I'm sure there are caring doctors out there, but I've only found ONE in the past 25 years that was.

RE: Do you smoke.smoke!

aquageek — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 04:49:18 GMT

Originally posted by laineybug Accept responsibility is just another way of saying your lazy and stupid. You continue to criticize and entire profession based solely on your experiences in a small town. Since that is ok, my wife went to one doctor and got the issue resolved. My guess is that somewhere in between is where the reality is. And, I believe thyroid medication is one of the most prescribed medications in the US, right after prozac, viagra and gull80's favorite, lipitor (figures totally fabricated but I have heard that thyroid med is a big seller). So, some doctors outside of S. Georgia are getting it right. It's too bad I can now tell my kids they can sit on their duffs and not study since that is the new defnintion of taking responsibility.