Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

FindingMyInnerFish — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:22:05 GMT

Given my (lack of) speed in both swimming and running these days, I haven't too much worried about winning, just competing with prior times--although I will admit that if I see someone near me giving me a race, the competitive juices, unenhanced by any illegal substances, ;) will start to flow. Generally speaking, though, since this is what I do for enjoyment, beyond giving it my best effort, I see no reason to let the fact that someone might be cheating worry me. It's their loss b/c they won't know what they really have in them. Also, as for awards, sometimes there are few or no competitors in my age group (w55-59), so sometimes I'll win awards by default (and sometimes in running, will have a good race and actually win against competition, which is pretty cool). But for the most part, I enjoy awards more as souvenirs of the event than as proof of my speed or any such. Which is fine because my attention is then focused not on what I can win but on how I perform.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:22:30 GMT

HGH Ah Human Growth Hormone,...is it really cheating to take some of this to enhance my well being and I also happen to swim? There are some doctors, a distinct minority I admit, who believe in something called adrenopause and when our natural hormones start dropping in middle aged they need to be supplemented. You can get antiaging doctors to prescribe HGH for you and some people who take it swear by it. As for dying off who knows it may make you live longer and feel younger. I personally wonder if you love it maybe those tumors in your body love it more.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

michaelmoore — Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:11:57 GMT

There are no drug tests is for US Masters Swimmers in the US. FINA does not have drug tests at the FINA World Masters Championships nor it have any at Stanford. In talking with the Executive Director of FINA, there is no desire to drug test masters swimmers. FINA already spends over $1,000,000 USD a year in out of compeition drug testing for elite athletes and that takes a lot of time and resourses, imagine having to test Masters who may be taking perscription medicine for medical conditions - it would be a nightmare. michael

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:57:34 GMT

Overdeveloped trap muscles also a sign of something fishy going on in the "supplement" department. Shoulder shrugs and neck lifts can only do so much... So anyone seen a roid abuser on the blocks lately?

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:14:45 GMT

I don't know about Masters Rules in the US (or Internationally). In Canada, our Masters Swimming, Canada has a rule that says CMGR 2.05. Drug Testing a) There shall be no drug testing at sanctioned Masters swim meets in Canada. Therefore it's not illegal to use drugs (in Masters swimming in Canada). However my point is that we swim against ourselves and against the clock. It's only an illusory win if I'm in lane 4 and the other six or seven swimmers in my heat are way older and way slower than me. I might touch the wall first in my heat but then find my name at the bottom of the list of the meet's age group result sheet. Even that "seemingly-poor" result is not bad -for me- if my time this year is faster than last year's. For that matter, if it's the same as last year's, this "standing still" is really a 1% improvement (due to aging. I'm 64) That's my $0.03 (Canadian) worth

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:18:43 GMT

The point is, work hard now as those who are using illegal substances will die off soon. That means more top 10 spots open to you and me in the future. As with "cheaters" or, in a more pc fashion, those who modify workouts or take illegal substances or enter your definition of cheating, race 'em anyway. You may surprise yourself and still outswim the "cheaters." It's possible. I spawn this thread off the "illegal drugs" thread because this is not really a discussion on illegal drugs in masters meet. To be honest to you guys, the thread really broke my heart. I'm a newbie in masters swimming and I've been working my a** off to improve my strokes and time, so that I can eventually win something in a masters swim meet. I will never ever cheat, it's against my principle. Well ... if people are cheating in masters meet, then I start to wonder what's the point of working so hard on improving my stroke and time. Swimming is not my career, I love doing it and it's a healthy hobby for me. What's the point of entering a master's swim meet? Isn't it stupid to be so hard headed? Maybe you guys can give me some reasons why I should continue to work hard and having "winning a masters swim meet" as a goal. Thank You!

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

funkyfish — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 02:31:40 GMT

Just out of curiosity, is there any kind of testing done at the national or international competitions? I used to compete in natural bodybuilding competitions, and the competition seemed for the most part to be on the up & up. Each competitor would be polygraphed, and the winner of each weight class would be urine tested. Again, just curious. Thanks.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:29:00 GMT

penguin4501, You stay the course. There are "cheaters" throughout life. Better to be observant and informed while you continue your athletic pursuit than to unknowingly have your head in the sand. Fact: There is no quitting because of a few cheaters. If there are people out there cheating in Masters swimming using things like Steriods, HGH, EPO or THG like drugs.... they're even bigger losers than if they were cheating and swimming "for real" at an elite level like US nationals. Remember ......... "It's just Masters Swimming"....... :-) Life goes on. John Smith

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Jeff Commings — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:02:32 GMT

Penguin, who says you still can't beat people using illegal substances by just working harder? And how do you know if someone is cheating? If you're on the blocks at a meet with five -- or seven -- others in the same heat, you still have the opportunity to win. It comes from within. Yes, a "cheater" might have drugs inside him or her that can aid in finishing a race, but he or she most likely isn't as mentally determined to win as you, because they simply believe the drugs will carry them to a win, and don't know how to mentally finish a race if you're within a fingernail or touching him/her out. Stay the course, penguin.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

dorothyrde — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:59:45 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan Craig, I'll give it a try. Question, for you Cardiologist, although you might be more able to answer as a swimmer! What do you do for bicep tendonitis, or anyone who has had this? I've never had swimming related shoulder/arm injuries and this isn't either, but I can't swim because of it. I haven't been to the doctor. My husband (Mr. MS in Exercise Phys.) thinks it's bicep tendonitis- it's at the top of my arm, on the outside, and hurts like a you-know-what I lift it. I know it's not bursitis, I've had that. Our assumption is that it's from lifting little ones all the time (too bad I love them so much!). I've iced it and Advil'd it; got in the other night and was SO frustrated- I can't lift my arm for overhead recovery in free, NOOOO backstroke (extremely big owies), no insweep motion for breaststroke (OWWWWWW!) and I'm so smart I didn't even try fly! Help anyone? Thanks. You probably should have it checked out. Around here, you can go in for a free sports med evaluation if you have a problem. They have early morning hours, and after hours, and trainers take a look at your problem and determine if you need a doctor, or if stretching, icing, ect will help.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:26:32 GMT

Jim- you are a trouble maker, aren't you? I certainly wasn't thinking of our beloved occasionally cranky Smith brothers, nor anyone else in our little online community. Really! In fact, the only time I've run into that sort of attitude in Masters swimming was at Baltimore LCNats a few years ago, where I tried to introduce myself to a few fellow competitors that were more than a little unfriendly (a distinct minority)- like I said though, not necessarily symptomatic of anything other than obnoxious personality disorder. And before the Geek suggests it, I didn't say anything to these guys about putrid, watery American beer...

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Jim Clemmons — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 03:28:39 GMT

Nor, I noticed, did you mention Democrat versus Republican versus Libertarian....

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Jim Clemmons — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 02:36:13 GMT

I agree with your description of tell-tales & add: a certain fullness under the jawline, hard to describe, but distinctive & as well, behavioral signs- arrogance, intolerance, regarding others as 'lesser beings'. Yes, I know, the latter can just come naturally to some,.... Are you describing anybody we know? Sounds like a "Smith" (or two) to me. Nah, c'mon now, I'm just kidding!

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:37:03 GMT

Thanks for all your talks and advices. I'll make sure my goals are based on my own performance. I've never involved in any sports seriously before swimming, let alone competing. When I picked up swimming a year ago I expected my health to improve, but I never expected it to improve my "goal setting skills". Life is an adventure aha, so glad I joined masters.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:39:17 GMT

It could be rotator cuff (supraspinatus) tendinitis. Check with an orthopedist--perhaps a steroid injection would help (if there isn't a tear).

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:49:41 GMT

Karen- as I've posted elsewhere, where there is such pain with a belief that usage hasn't been extreme enough to have caused such pain, one could suspect cervical disc impingement against the nerves that go from spinal cord down arms. From personal experience, the pain can be excruciating & surface exactly in strokes as mentioned. Causes can be physical injury, herniation and degeneration. Have it looked at by someone who knows their stuff.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 11:27:42 GMT

Originally posted by Peter Cruise What concerns me about this discussion is that while I don't doubt that there is some drug 'cheating' in Masters, I feel that it is a small minority who will reap their own rewards in possible side effects in later years; the rest of us are far too straight & respectful of our bodies to partake of such experimentation. I do think any potential major sponsor of US Masters Swimming might well misinterpret the results of GoodSmiths's poll & not wish to be associated with such behavior. Well, John asked a pretty loaded question! In general, the answer to the question "Do you think that there are any participants in Masters Swimming that . . ." is "yes" regardless of what comes next. Bob

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

ande — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 09:02:59 GMT

the point is you should work hard to be fit, happy, and healthy how you perform compared to others is irrevlevant all that matters is how you are compared to how you used to be ande Originally posted by penguin4501 I spawn this thread off the "illegal drugs" thread because this is not really a discussion on illegal drugs in masters meet. To be honest to you guys, the thread really broke my heart. I'm a newbie in masters swimming and I've been working my a** off to improve my strokes and time, so that I can eventually win something in a masters swim meet. I will never ever cheat, it's against my principle. Well ... if people are cheating in masters meet, then I start to wonder what's the point of working so hard on improving my stroke and time. Swimming is not my career, I love doing it and it's a healthy hobby for me. What's the point of entering a master's swim meet? Isn't it stupid to be so hard headed? Maybe you guys can give me some reasons why I should continue to work hard and having "winning a masters swim meet" as a goal. Thank You!

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Karen Duggan — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 08:56:49 GMT

Craig, I'll give it a try. Question, for you Cardiologist, although you might be more able to answer as a swimmer! What do you do for bicep tendonitis, or anyone who has had this? I've never had swimming related shoulder/arm injuries and this isn't either, but I can't swim because of it. I haven't been to the doctor. My husband (Mr. MS in Exercise Phys.) thinks it's bicep tendonitis- it's at the top of my arm, on the outside, and hurts like a you-know-what I lift it. I know it's not bursitis, I've had that. Our assumption is that it's from lifting little ones all the time (too bad I love them so much!). I've iced it and Advil'd it; got in the other night and was SO frustrated- I can't lift my arm for overhead recovery in free, NOOOO backstroke (extremely big owies), no insweep motion for breaststroke (OWWWWWW!) and I'm so smart I didn't even try fly! Help anyone? Thanks.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 08:23:36 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan I, for one, am in trouble if we're ever tested and Advil is banned! I think I'm becoming a junkie! (But it makes my owies feel better!) Aleve (Naprosyn) is definitely a better choice (500 mg twice daily).

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sun, 09 Oct 2005 08:20:53 GMT

Cheaters nerver win....they may come in first....BUT, that does not make them winners!

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sat, 08 Oct 2005 16:37:57 GMT

The discussion about "cheating" in the other thread may be interesting, but it is basically pointless. First, let's define cheating. It is breaking the rules. If a swimmer breaks the rules in terms of technique or execution and is caught by the ref, s/he is disqualified. As for performance enhancing substances. Well, if someone is taking EPO or steroids prescribed by a physician to address a medical necessity, then so be it. Those instances are, I'm guessing, few and far between and nothing worth worrying about. As to those souls who may ingest illegal or legal substances in order to swim fast at a masters meet, then just feel sorry for them. How pathetic must one's life be that s/he is so driven to win a masters event that they would put something in their body that could hurt them just to get an advantage over their competitors. Pity those sad, pathetic losers and go about your own business as if they don't exist . . . because (a) they probably don't and (b) if they do what do you really care and why would you waste time worrying about them?

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:58:42 GMT

Wayne- I agree with your description of tell-tales & add: a certain fullness under the jawline, hard to describe, but distinctive & as well, behavioral signs- arrogance, intolerance, regarding others as 'lesser beings'. Yes, I know, the latter can just come naturally to some, but these are observed by me over 33 years of fairly regular weight training & observing some pretty overt steroid abuse. What concerns me about this discussion is that while I don't doubt that there is some drug 'cheating' in Masters, I feel that it is a small minority who will reap their own rewards in possible side effects in later years; the rest of us are far too straight & respectful of our bodies to partake of such experimentation. I do think any potential major sponsor of US Masters Swimming might well misinterpret the results of GoodSmiths's poll & not wish to be associated with such behavior.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sat, 08 Oct 2005 15:50:56 GMT

Penguin- at the risk of sounding like Yoda- the true answer in your heart is.

RE: Illegal drugs in masters meet - I'm heartbroken

Former Member — Sat, 08 Oct 2005 11:57:56 GMT

Karen, Drop your dependance on Advil, when you are really a Masters you move up to Naproxen Sodium, AKA Naprosin, AKA "All Day Relief" for swimmers shoulders and swimmers knees.:D :D When you see a male masters with huge muscles, and pimples all over, swimming really fast, you think steroids.