Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:33:35 GMT

Originally posted by Blue Horn What about people that take growth hormone or estrogen or testostrone for health reasons. Some people have medical reasons for taking banned substances. If that is the case, I don't really care. It is masters swimming, not the olympics. I just can't imagine someone taking the juice for a masters meet. As I've posted previously, with the exception of diuretics and beta blockers for hypertension and bronchodilators for asthma, the majority of the banned substances are used infrequently in medical practice. Indications for the use of anabolic steroids or growth hormone are well-defined and quite narrow. And I have no trouble imagining someone using these drugs strictly for performance enhancement in Masters swimming. Keep in mind it's not against the rules.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:40:25 GMT

What about people that take growth hormone or estrogen or testostrone for health reasons. Some people have medical reasons for taking banned substances. If that is the case, I don't really care. It is masters swimming, not the olympics. I just can't imagine someone taking the juice for a masters meet.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

ande — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:41:02 GMT

who cares it's masters I'm sure some masters swimmers do take performance enhancing drugs but my stance depends on their circumstances I don't have a problem with a masters swimmer in chemo taking EPO, but a healthy masters swimmer taking steriods to swim a little faster is pathetic. get a life ande Originally posted by TheGoodSmith Do you think that there are any participants in Masters Swimming that use illegal supplements? John Smith

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:42:48 GMT

Does anyone have any comments about the Chineses Nationals that were over the weekend? Has Chia gotten to where we don't have to suspect themof doping and othe forms of cheating?

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:42:40 GMT

Does anyone have any comments about the Chineses Nationals that were over the weekend? Has Chia gotten to where we don't have to suspect themof doping and othe forms of cheating?

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Frank Thompson — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 05:34:46 GMT

Craiglll: I think people in swimming are not saying much because of the press statements by David Salo and John Leonard after Montreal were not taken to well by both *** Pound of the WADA and Mustapha Larfaoui of FINA. The bigger news today was a request that Italy back off with its criminal charges if anyone is caught cheating with drugs during the competition. I read the news item in swiminfo today and it looks like they don't want Italy to go through with this during the Winter Olympics. They just wanted you banned from competition not jailed if you are guility.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:18:58 GMT

My brother used to be an army officer. His last tour of duty was in Germany telling soldierts taht they were being discahrged becaseu the either tested postive for drugs or were HIV positive. He said that almost to a man, each person claimed it was because of poppy seeds. supposedly, the Arymy then did a stury and found that you woudl have to eat about, I believe, 10 lbs of poppy seeds to meet the level the army said was necessary for discharge. Also, I have a question about the USMS's policy on banning drugs. Didn't I read that there isn't one? But doesn't the USMS follow Fina? It is really confusing

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:08:54 GMT

originally posted by Aquageek Maybe what she meant was she was sprinkling cocaine on her poppyseed bagel before eating it. I thought everyone ate thier bagels that way?

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:25:12 GMT

I believe this is a summary of USMS policy re: performance enhancing drugs: .

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:44:47 GMT

Lefty is asking whether it's still considered cheating if you aren't breaking any rules. Just be sure you don't wear any kind of flotation device. And enter feet first during warmups.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:27:01 GMT

Currently USMS does not prohibit performance-enhancing substances. Nor am I aware of a policy statement. Keep in mind, however, that use of a controlled substance (anabolic steroids) without a prescription is illegal.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:14:00 GMT

Please tell me what you mean by cheating? USMS has no banned list, so you certainly are not breaking any rules. Steroids are banned in other sports not because they make you better, but because they are unsafe. If some people choose to use them, you would have to do something dangerous to your body to be on a level playing field. With safety out of the equation this point is moot. A fast skin suit makes you faster and you do not have to do anything to get the improvement. Just put it on. Steroids will only make you faster if you work hard. So the "you get faster by doing nothing" argument has little relevance and no precedence. Please define cheating...

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:35:28 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek Maybe what she meant was she was sprinkling cocaine on her poppyseed bagel before eating it. Bar none, one of the funniest things I have seen on here. Geek, you are a freakin riot! Keep it up!

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:47:30 GMT

There was a piece on Fox sports that showed that small amounts of steroids administered to young healthy adults will have a positive effects on physical and mental health with NO unhealthy side effects. If small amounts of steroids can make your life better - and are not dangerous - then why not use them? If the argument is USMS is more about making yourself better - and that is what steroids do - then wouldn't steroid use fit in USMS credo? This argument only has merit if "safe" steroid use is possible. I do not know if it is, but I do believe in science and I think it is naive to think that safe steroid use won't be possible in the future. If your argument is built on steroids being "unsafe" then it really has nothing to do with my questions...

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:20:22 GMT

The USADA is very clear regarding the use of supplements: www.usantidoping.org/.../athlete advisory-approved or verified supplements.pdf BTW, I once treated a woman who suffered significant postoperative bleeding related to her use of gingko, a commonly used supplement. Hers was by no means an isolated incident.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

aquageek — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:53:13 GMT

hmmm - now that's a toughy For USMS I'd say "who cares" if someone is using steroids. So, I guess I'd say it's probably not cheating by USMS rules, or lack of rules. I'm sure there are deeper thinkers than me on this topic who should weigh in. That excludes, by default, Cruise and the brothers Smith.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

aquageek — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:42:31 GMT

Lefty: To be honest I don't really understand your point. If you want to dope up on steroids, go right ahead and give yourself that advantage. I'm fine if folks put on a fast skin. It doesn't make you faster or swim better, it reduces drag. But, putting controlled substances in your body is a whole different story.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

aquageek — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:40:24 GMT

Originally posted by lefty This argument only has merit if "safe" steroid use is possible. Or if you find cheating acceptable.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

aquageek — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:28:39 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 BTW, I once treated a woman who suffered significant postoperative bleeding related to her use of gingko, a commonly used supplement. You neglect to mention she had fantastic memory and concentration abilities.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

MegSmath — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:29:58 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB Btw, I believe that the courts have already awarded the swimmer in question damages. You are correct, LindsayNB. He won $578,635 in a judgment against Ultimate Nutrition. And it was vitamins that were the culprit. See www.usatoday.com/.../2005-05-13-swimmer_x.htm As to the argument that Kicker should have known he was taking a risk when he swallowed the vitamins, he knows that now: He said he will return to competition without supplements. "You can't be sure what you're buying. To me it's not worth it," he said.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

aquageek — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:08:28 GMT

Here you go Bob, straight from an article in today's NYT on something called bitter orange: The F.D.A. does not require manufacturers of dietary supplements to prove that the products are safe and effective before they are sold. We can parse right versus expectation all day but the simple fact remains that these supplements are not drugs, not regulated and many times not safe. But, feel free to part with you hard earned dollars to take them.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Allen Stark — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:33:57 GMT

Poppy seeds can give you a positive drug screen for opiates if the test is very sensitive. If there is a question a quantitative analysis can be run,but most routine drug screens are deliberately run not sensitive to avoid false positives. Also cocaine is not an opiate and there is NO cocaine in poppy seeds.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:06:03 GMT

Originally posted by Bob McAdams Unfortunately, the policy doesn't address what happens if an athlete ingests trace amounts of a banned substance by eating food (rather than supplements). Right. That's like the patient we saw recently who explained his positive tox screen (for cocaine) on the fact that he was in a room with other people who were abusing the drug (but he of course was not).

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:57:16 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 Keep in mind, however, that use of a controlled substance (anabolic steroids) without a prescription is illegal. Is Androstendione illegal? I really do not know. Geek: I would NOT pump that stuff in my body at this time, but I suspect that my (unborn) children will. And that is my point. How much science is too much science? I should have asked that in the fist place! I kind of think the fast skin suit is too much science, accept one can simply shave and get similiar or better results. So I choose to use one out of the sake of convenience.

RE: Masters Swimming and Illegal Supplements

Former Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 05:54:49 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 The USADA is very clear regarding the use of supplements: www.usantidoping.org/.../athlete advisory-approved or verified supplements.pdf Unfortunately, the policy doesn't address what happens if an athlete ingests trace amounts of a banned substance by eating food (rather than supplements). Bob