professional vs. amateur swimming.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:44:31 GMT

but it is ironic that Bush's stance on the basic environmental policies associated to the Kyoto Accords seems to be so intimately connected to these recent Hurricane fiascos via the Global Warming Factor that his oil infested soul has helped to perpetuate and ignore beyond all other major industrialized nations of the world....you know the old saying about reaping what you sow!! Do you really want to go there? It is amazing that the Left gets more and more ingrained that EVERYTHING in the world that goes wrong is Bush's fault. I am so sick of the "Blame the Bush's for everything" mantra. How about solutions rather than blaming? How about working hard to get people in office by voting your side into power rather than attacking someone's intellect for supporting Bush? How about looking at the fact that fossil fuel is still the most economic way to get around and until something better comes along, will continue to be before attacking "Big Oil" (A term that literally makes me laugh every time I hear it). If the American government had ANY ability to control the price of oil, then the worst president in recent history was a peanut farmer in Georgia. Oil prices were much higher then, inflation adjusted which is the only way to measure any price. Oil is manipulated by OPEC, always has been, always will be. I am surprised so many people like Phelps being that he drives an evil SUV and all. You will never get back into power without an original idea that makes sense to voters. Just look at how the Republicans gained Congress back after 40 years in 1994. It was called "The Contract With America". Regardless if you agreed with it or not, it was a set of solutions to problems that were laid out and easily understandable to voters and the politicians were held accountable for once. I felt all along Bush would win reelection in 2004 due to the fact the vote for Kerrey wasn't a vote for Kerrey at all, it was a vote AGAINST Bush. No one has ever one election with the theme "Vote for me, because I am not him". No more politics from me, I am just amazed that the left has denigrated itself to only blame and point fingers and to this day still has no solutions to the many serious our country faces.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:39:26 GMT

Why not attack the hurricanes before they get to landfall. What ever happened to salting the storms with Dry Ice so they would get rid of the moisture. Get rid of all the federations swimming, figure skating etc let bullies rule.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:01:58 GMT

Sam, I am going to send you a PM b/c I clearly made a mistake bringing politics into the discussion....My first comments are relevant though (even though thier political in nature) b/c the topic of this thread overlaps the current political climate in The U.S. and I made sure to point that part out when I made those comments.........I have to say that I disagree with you 100% about just "Blaming Bush" about HIS totally clear and conscious decision to ignore the issues of Global Warming as spelled out in the Kyoto Accords....It can't be more cut and dry in fact....I can't see how anyone at all can possibly deny this fact......And the solutions that you claim are not being offered here are completely obvious...so please explain via PM to me how in the world you can claim "no solutions" on this particular subject I brought up are being made???...I'm totally and completely baffled by your comments....The article I posted makes those solution so clear that only a severly mentally handicaped individual or a very young child couldn't understand them......I'm sorry if you take this the wrong way but I can't see how you can stand by any of those comments in response to the very particular issue I was bringing up in my posting.....I guess the moderators may ax me...but I don't care.....let them! Jim

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

knelson — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:49:06 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck Why not attack the hurricanes before they get to landfall. What ever happened to salting the storms with Dry Ice so they would get rid of the moisture. I'd say this would be something like trying to drain New Orleans with a bucket brigade.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

knelson — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:47:46 GMT

Originally posted by PeirsolFan You always seem to be looking for an argument. So, you'd have no problem competing against Peirsol, Crocker, or Hansen? Forums like this wouldn't be very interesting without arguments, would they? Anyway, no, of course I wouldn't mind competing against those guys. Yes, my butt would be soundly kicked. Peirsol could probably lap me in a short course 200 back :) But that's what competition is all about. When you're talking about something like the Olympics or World Championships you expect the best competitors to be there. I don't want to see the second tier up-and-comers just because the top dogs dropped out "as a courtesy." edit: and as my wife pointed out, do you think Irina Slutskaya should give up amateur status, too? she's been competing at a high level as long as Michelle has and she just won Worlds this year. Maybe she should quit to give others a chance, too? Your entitled to your opinion, of course, but I just don't understand it at all.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Paul Smith — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:24:38 GMT

Go ahead george and sign the accords.......even though two of the largest/fastest growing economies in the wrold (China/India) as well as most developing companies would get a pass......ohh and regardless about where you stand on our current overdependence on oil lets put those restrictions in place and cripple an econonmy in recovery. You must be a trust funder Jim!! PS: Get the US on a fast track to alternative fuels, hold all nations to the same standards, rewrite the accord then sign it! PSS: global warming has nthing to do with the recent spate of hurricanes, warmer temps actually have the effect of reducing the magnitude of such storms.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:15:19 GMT

ionic proportions Nice adjective! Point well taken and sorry if I came off a bit defensive. (Ionic proportion I think that phrase has some definite long term potential here...)

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:55:57 GMT

Sam, the gratuitous was more applying to the quote by Jim that got you a little steamed. Rather than look at what I said for personal criticism, please take it as a more general comment meant to prevent debate from devolving to ionic proportions.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:51:43 GMT

Kidding aside, I don't mind a good political discussion even on this swimming site, but is it really necessary to gratuitously insult each other just for having contrary opinions? Don't you think the phrase "gratuitously insult" is a bit strong? I don't believe I have made one personal insult to anyone. All I am trying to do, obviously not too well I might add, is to make a case that short term events should not be used to make long term, poorly thought out decisions. I am on the Right side obviously, but that doesn't make me blind that we don't do things wrong, i.e. many aspects of The Patriot Act, that many people on the Left voted for also I might add. Or for that matter quickly goiong to war. It just amazes me that again many on the Left voted to support this move based on the same intelligence (I use that term loosely), and now that the intelligence was flawed, come back and say war is wrong. I just wish hindsight being 20/20 that people would admit being wrong once in a while. That being said, Iraq may not have been where the war on terror started, but I would much rather have the terrorists fighting us there rather than on our own soil like they achieved on 9/11. But to say that this discussion has devolved to "gratuitous insults" is a stretch.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:44:54 GMT

I am rather enjoying watching everyone flailing away at each other, esp. the two Smiths, as they seem to have so much history to taunt each other with. Kidding aside, I don't mind a good political discussion even on this swimming site, but is it really necessary to gratuitously insult each other just for having contrary opinions? It seems to me that just puts off reasonable people from an honest difference of opinion if insults come with it.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:51:12 GMT

Originally posted by knelson So since Aaron Peirsol has already won several Olympic medals should he recuse himself from competing from now on? Explain to me how Kwan's situation is any different. The Scott Hamilton example makes no sense. Scott Hamilton is 47. I know it seems like Michelle's been around forever, but she's still only 25 (and only turned 25 in July). Not only that, there's no way Hamilton could compete against the top male skaters. He's still a good skater, but you don't see skaters attempting a whole lot of quads at Stars on Ice. You always seem to be looking for an argument. So, you'd have no problem competing against Peirsol, Crocker, or Hansen? I would! The governing rules/bodies of swimming are different than the rules/bodies of figure skating which is a shame. That's all.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:43:29 GMT

Originally posted by Sam Perry Kwan is evil because she supports Bush, she drives an SUV and owns stock in Halliburton. I read it in the Washington Post which we all know as the bastion of truth and unbiased views in news reporting... (I couldn't resist) Now that's funny! :D

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

knelson — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 06:36:15 GMT

Originally posted by Sam Perry It just amazes me that again many on the Left voted to support this move based on the same intelligence (I use that term loosly), and now that the intelligence was flawed, come back and say war is wrong. I just wish hindsight being 20/20 that people would admit being wrong once in a while. What I remember is demonstration after demonstration supporting NOT going to war and lots of car bumper stickers reading "Attack Iraq? NO!" Then again I'm in Seattle. Your mileage may vary. Any lefty who supported the Iraq war should be tarred and feathered.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Sat, 24 Sep 2005 05:06:06 GMT

The article I posted makes those solution so clear that only a severly mentally handicaped individual or a very young child couldn't understand them Again, from the Left, attacks on intellect. Paul said it best, but let's ASSUME you are right and in 5 years since Bush was put into the White House, the globe has warmed and he is "reaping what he sewed" as you so eloquently put it. This is not the first year we've had active hurricanes. 1992 Andrew practically destroyed lower Florida, oh yeah blame Bush 41 for that one, he had been in office for four years. Last time Galveston was demolished in 1961 with Camille, you know Kennedy was an awful president he was heating up the Earth then, but Eisenhower was the real culprit because he was Republican. Galveston was completely destroyed in 1900 by the most deadly natural disaster in US History over 6,000 people killed. That darn William McKinley should be to blame, he loved horse drawn carriages and those horses had masses amounts of methane gas they produced that warmed the earth up so much. The less horses the better. Hurricanes are cyclical! We are in a bad cycle now similar to cycles in the past. The left takes short term cycles and goes on to extrapolate that in the long term this will continue to get useless (i.e. Kyoto Accords) and unreasonable agreements in place. I know I said I would stop, but when someone comes at me with a quote like the one above I feel I need to speak up.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:27:36 GMT

Kwan is evil because she supports Bush, she drives an SUV and owns stock in Halliburton. I read it in the Washington Post which we all know as the bastion of truth and unbiased views in news reporting... (I couldn't resist)

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:46:57 GMT

originally posted by 330 man Oooh! A political discussion. Last time I engaged in one of those on this forum I got emails from the moderator. What if I start by chiming on on the main topic thread and then afterwards slip in my political agenda message as a p.s. afterthought?.....Is that legal or will the moderator's see through my little gimmick?....I promise the political slant will be brief!! About the Amatuer vs Proffesional debate.....I wholeheartedly agree with evil good on this one (and many others) that if the relevant Olympic Committees will allow professional swimmers to compete than the prude and currently "conservative slanted" NCAA's should cut these pro swimmer the same slack.....Who knows....Now that the dividing line that we once called "Seperation of Church and State" is diminishing into nothingness; The religious right wing may eventually take hold of the NCAA and require that only self proclaimed Christian fundamentalists can compete in NCAA competition??.......See....I claim this thread topic has some natural overlap with politics ...hence making politics a somewhat (if only remote) relevant topic here (on some level perhaps??) Newmastersswimmer p.s. Oh yeah....My Anti-Bush remark......Read the article in the following link below....Nothing new....but it is ironic that Bush's stance on the basic environmental policies associated to the Kyoto Accords seems to be so intimately connected to these recent Hurricane fiascos via the Global Warming Factor that his oil infested soul has helped to perpetuate and ignore beyond all other major industrialized nations of the world....you know the old saying about reaping what you sow!! www.workers.org/.../co20329.php

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:45:40 GMT

Paul, Face it.... you are a closet Republican. You are a Republican in Independent sheeps clothing. No ! .... actually..... you are a scared Republican, one who would like to be a Republican, but is too embarassed about where the party has gone in recent years so you hide in Independent purgatory Dude.... as liberal and annoying as I am, I can honestly say that I would gladly take old school Republican style Bob Dole over George Bush any day of the week. As for your strange and made up facts below... 1. Tax Cuts..... oohhh yes... that extra $1600/yr tax cut I received really pumped up my spending and helped the economy..... NOT. 2. Bush's "No child left behind"...... full of sweeping promises, irresponsible authority, more expensive than many school systems can afford. 3. Linking 9/11 to the war on Iraq.... nice job ..... I can see you've been living in your Republican closet the last 5 years. Goofball.... the two are unrelated. In addition, most of Europe is pissed as sh*t at Bush and his so called foreign policy. Are you trying to tell me that you think Americans are more welcome now abroad than 10 years ago? Unless your traveling to Australia or Canada you'd best keep your nationality to yourself. Hell the only reason Canada puts up with us half the time is that they're stuck with the apartment next door. Dude.... let's not even talk about the deficit. You will get ground into a fine powder if you try and defend Bush. John Smith

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

knelson — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:09:26 GMT

Originally posted by PeirsolFan It's a courtesy. There are very few spots available in any competition. As with most sports, only the top few advance. So since Aaron Peirsol has already won several Olympic medals should he recuse himself from competing from now on? Explain to me how Kwan's situation is any different. The Scott Hamilton example makes no sense. Scott Hamilton is 47. I know it seems like Michelle's been around forever, but she's still only 25 (and only turned 25 in July). Not only that, there's no way Hamilton could compete against the top male skaters. He's still a good skater, but you don't see skaters attempting a whole lot of quads at Stars on Ice.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:09:35 GMT

Oooh! A political discussion. Last time I engaged in one of those on this forum I got emails from the moderator.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:03:37 GMT

That is OK Paul you're from Colo.....so you get a bye due to that....~....

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Paul Smith — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:34:36 GMT

My bad........once again lured to the dark side by evil-goodsmith who had to steer us off track. Maybe he was snoozing and missed this one?! Either that or glued to the TI thread! By the way.........I do think the NCAA needs to examine these guidelines.......the Olympics already dissed the entire concept of amateur so why not college? Heck, get the NFL to use the colleges as farm teams and pay for 150 athletes.....then we can take their buget and invest in swimming, water polo, etc.!

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Paul Smith — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:30:11 GMT

As usual.....extremists getting emotional and not ready carefully!! 1) I did not vote for Bush in the last election, I'm a registerd Indepenent and can't fathom voting by party, I vote for the individual based on who I hope will do the least harm. 2) Fact......like it or note the tax cuts did help our economy recover 3) No Child left behind? All programs should be evaluated carefully and dropped if not effective. Maybe this program was, show me the stats? - The bigger point is some many people who don't pay attention to detials lash out at a President without knowing the facts, in this case Bush has allocated record spending on two major programs. The bigger point being ignored is spending more IS NOT the answer! - Never once "linked" 9/11 specifically to Iraq.....a war I opposed. My point is that hatred for the US has been growing long before Bush came into office. PS: I recycle, use biodiesel, follow Buddism more than christianity....so not the closet conservative you may think!

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:29:18 GMT

You have got to be kidding. The poverty rate at the end of the Clinton administration was 11.3%. In 2004 under W's "leadership," up to 12.7% (as reported by Robert Samuelson in the Washington Post on Sept. 21). Under Clinton, huge annual budget surpluses to work down the debt. Under W, record breaking deficits by increasing spending while cutting taxes for the wealthy. What happened to tight fisted republicans? Spend within your means republicans? Fiscally responsible republicans? Oh yes, glad we got rid of all of those WMD's in Iraq. (oops) War came to us? Iraq had NOTHING to do w/ 9/11. W makes Warren G. Harding look like an angel. He is an embarrasement and has done unspeakable damage to this country that my six year old will be paying for long after I've returned to the earth. I'll take Clinton (Bill or Hillary), Barack Obama, John McCain or Bob Dole any day.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

A.K. — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:56:22 GMT

Originally posted by botterud You have got to be kidding. The poverty rate at the end of the Clinton administration was 11.3%. In 2004 under W's "leadership," up to 12.7% (as reported by Robert Samuelson in the Washington Post on Sept. 21). Under Clinton, huge annual budget surpluses to work down the debt. Under W, record breaking deficits by increasing spending while cutting taxes for the wealthy. What happened to tight fisted republicans? Spend within your means republicans? Fiscally responsible republicans? Oh yes, glad we got rid of all of those WMD's in Iraq. (oops) War came to us? Iraq had NOTHING to do w/ 9/11. W makes Warren G. Harding look like an angel. He is an embarrasement and has done unspeakable damage to this country that my six year old will be paying for long after I've returned to the earth. I'll take Clinton (Bill or Hillary), Barack Obama, John McCain or Bob Dole any day. Well said.. I do believe and you can probably ask most foreign nations that they are not happy with the U.S. now as opposed to Clinton's era... and did you like ...... Why G.W. delayed the shortening of his 6 week vacation by 2.5 days while one of the worst national disasters was occurring.and decided to hit a money raising Republican meeting before showing up to show respect for the 3 states hit by Katrina? Gas prices almost doubling- W's way to explain why he wants to drill in AK and FL..What ever happened to alternative fuels--oh yeah that's right we have an oil man in the White House. Previous quote-"The tax cuts pulled the US out of recession that began the last year of Clinton's presidency. Home ownership now for all races and income levels is at an all time high." Recession, a normal ebb and flow of economy-especially after such a robust economy of which has been lacking these last 5 years. Realty is soaring because of the low interest rates and low stock returns-gotta move your money elsewhere. But on to what this thread is supposed to be about..... USA Swimming, one of the best athletic medal showings at the Olympics for decades, should allow a form of monetary compensation for the intense dedication and hard work these athletes have shown on the world stage.

RE: professional vs. amateur swimming.

Former Member — Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:06:06 GMT

Much too conservative..... I completely agree. Geoge Bush is bad charma for this country. A slow economy, a war and two nasty hurricanes...... not good. Canada probably doesn't want to be too closely associated with us right now. It may rubb off. John Smith