Latest L. Armstrong controversy

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 07:26:46 GMT

Having watched him for many many years and cycling in general. Cycling is probably no dirtier than any other sport on the tele. American sport sweeps most of its problems under the rug whereas cycling does actually punish cheaters. Although as people get caught, it's very easy to think a large number as cheating since we always only see the tip of the iceberg on this and have no idea ourselves how deep the problems go. As far as Lance. What's the guy supposed to do? While he won 7 Tours, he was the most tested athlete. Not just urine too...also blood and anything they could test they basically took. The only part that at all has strange connotations to cheating is that some of the people he was around and trained under are known dopers. But as far as I know, he never took infamous trips that other cyclists did to the tops of the Italian mountains to go dope + train with those doctors. The USADA and Floyd Landis have had it out for Lance for some time, particularly since Landis was incredibly sore for being caught as a cheat. That's really when all of this picked up and hasn't stopped since. Landis now is known for being essentially a lier and a crook and is now paying $500k back to people who donated money to him for his legal fees so he doesn't get sued himself. As far as Lance's performance in tours, he never did anything superhuman and he had the strongest team behind him basically every year. There's a team time trial event that his team dominated, netting him 2-3 minutes on the entire field most of those tours. If all you have to do as Lance is stay on someone's wheel, that saves you 30% of your energy while the guy trying to beat you on the mountain has to do that +30% AND somehow be able to ride away from you. There were even days Lance cracked and lost time, but he never cracked bad enough to think his form would be poor the next day. So as far as his performance, it does not suggest he cheated, either by recovering at an inhuman rate or being able to run away at an inhuman rate. As far as I'm concerned, the USADA is a joke agency. If they really had actual evidence and cared about integrity, they would have presented it by now instead of causing a media whirlwind about it.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Frank Thompson — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:49:41 GMT

Ok with everything going on in the news today about Lance Armstrong, I had to bring this old thread up because we have discussing and debating this issue for over 8 years. The only other controversial thread on this subject matter that had more debate was the Dara Torres threads. The question has to be asked is that will you remember Lance Armstrong for all the good or bad that he has done in sports, society, and in life? Was the news today a public admission of guilt and therefore he becomes a fraud after all these years? Or is he a hero for coming back and beating cancer and winning 7 tours and starting a foundation? Has anyone changed there view on this from how they feel through the years because of this latest news? I have provided links about all of news reports today and how their seems to be a changing of the tide against Lance Armstrong guilt or innocence. www.nytimes.com/.../lance-armstrong-ends-fight-against-doping-charges-losing-his-7-tour-de-france-titles.html www.nydailynews.com/.../lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-de-france-titles-lifetime-ban-olympic-sports-drops-doping-appeal-article-1.1143295 lancearmstrong.com/.../lance-armstongs-statement-of-august-23-2012 www.bicycling.com/.../lance-armstrongs-endgame abcnews.go.com/.../story www.washingtonpost.com/.../c1da6b8a-ede2-11e1-afd8-097e90f99d05_blog.html

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 01:23:44 GMT

Was the news today a public admission of guilt and therefore he becomes a fraud after all these years? Or is he a hero for coming back and beating cancer and winning 7 tours and starting a foundation? Has anyone changed their view on this from how they feel through the years because of this latest news? What Armstrong did was incredible, both on the bike and off. But no, I don't view his deeds the same way I once did. Honestly, the latest news had little impact; I lost my innocence in cycling matters when Hamilton was proven dirty, followed shortly by Landis. After those debacles I took every accomplishment and inspirational story (including Lance's) with huge heaps of salt.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Frank Thompson — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:44:55 GMT

The Floyd Landis decision is made with lots of controversy. www.comcast.net/.../index.jsp

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sat, 26 May 2007 16:28:28 GMT

Dopers run rapid in cycling msn.foxsports.com/.../6848682

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Wed, 02 Aug 2006 13:52:25 GMT

Is Marin Jones truly see no evil, hear no evil, do no evil?

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:04:45 GMT

I read in the Daily Illini that landis positive results were from artificial testosterone. There is a great article about Gatlin. The article is from The Associated PressI think the website is www.dailyillini.com It says that Gatlin was suspended previously because an amphetamine was found in medication he was taking for ADD.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

jonblank — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:50:04 GMT

Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com I read in the Daily Illini that landis positive results were from artificial testosterone. There is a great article about Gatlin. The article is from The Associated PressI think the website is www.dailyillini.com It says that Gatlin was suspended previously because an amphetamine was found in medication he was taking for ADD. Supposedly, it was this suspension which opened Gatlin's eyes to the perils of disallowed substance usage. He has gone on record as vehemently opposed to such behaviors. By the way, I still believe Marion Jones, too. Though the circumstantial evidence has shaken my faith a bit, I must add.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:40:35 GMT

Here's a link to one of the best articles I've read on the subject of doping (and pertinent to this discussion): "Within weeks, her arms and shoulders began to thicken. She developed severe acne. Her pubic hair began to spread over her abdomen. Her libido soared out of control. Her voice turned gruff." I got scared at this point....

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

knelson — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:56:17 GMT

I know this topic has come up before. I doubt doping is a serious problem in masters swimming, but I also think it's probably not completely unheard of, either.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Frank Thompson — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:38:01 GMT

Kirk: Good observation. I hope that in the next two weeks we don't have any of this kinda activity happening at our competition. I guess we will see how everyone looks and how fast everyone swims before we can make our suspicions. I would hate to think that our Masters swimmers would subject themselves to this kinda of activity with all of the health risks involved. It might be naive not to think otherwise but would someone do this for a record, medal, or swim stardom. Are the awards worth the risks to someone's life?

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

knelson — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:12:03 GMT

Kind of interesting to see a story written by sort of a "weekend warrior" athlete in his forties who wondered what performance enhancing drugs would do for him. If this guy did it I'd say the odds are pretty good there are plenty of others like him. Performance enhancing drugs might not just be for elite athletes these days.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Frank Thompson — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:07:48 GMT

Kirk: Thanks for the great long article. Some of that stuff I never heard of and should be contibuted to the Hall of Shame website that has detailed history off all of this.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

aquageek — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:50:01 GMT

Originally posted by knelson Here's another interesting article about doping: outside.away.com/.../200311_drug_test_1.html Very interesting. One thing I didn't realize before reading this was how much these drugs "assist" with recovery.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

knelson — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:12:07 GMT

Here's another interesting article about doping: outside.away.com/.../200311_drug_test_1.html

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

knelson — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:47:13 GMT

Originally posted by jonblank Having said that, I also sincerely believed Mr. Clinton (Bill, not George) when he told us that he "didn't have sex with that woman. Ms. Lewinsky". I suppose I am too trusting a soul. It's o.k. It just all depends on what your definition of is is.:D

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:12:04 GMT

"What did for me—supplying drugs solely for the purpose of increasing my athletic prowess—is not illegal, but it would certainly be frowned on by many of his colleagues." From the website of the North Carolina Medical Board: "The use of anabolic steroids, testosterone and its analogs, human growth hormone, human chorionic gonadotrophin, other preparations with anabolic properties, or autotransfusion in any form, to enhance athletic performance or muscle development for cosmetic, nontherapeutic reasons, in the absence of an established disease or deficiency state, is not a medically valid use of these medications. The use of these medications under these conditions will subject the person licensed by the Board to investigation and potential sanctions." Could explain why he doesn't allow his real name to be used in the article.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

jonblank — Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:34:29 GMT

It's been announced that Justin Gatlin, co-World Recordholder in the 100 meter dash, who trains here in Raleigh NC, tested positive for steroids. His coach, Trevor Graham, publicly blames Sport Capitol's (unnamed) masseuse, who he states had a vendetta against Gatlin. I do not personally know Mr. Gatlin, (though I'd like to meet him) but from every report he is honest and a crusader for "clean" sport. I really hope that he is innocent. It may be Pollyanna-like of me, but I want to believe that Justin Gatlin and Floyd Landis are clean. At that level of scrutiny, it continues to amaze me that others (not Gatlin and Landis, mind you) continue to try to outwit the control agencies. Having said that, I also sincerely believed Mr. Clinton (Bill, not George) when he told us that he "didn't have sex with that woman. Ms. Lewinsky". I suppose I am too trusting a soul.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:30:37 GMT

I wsa talking this morning, I might have been wrong but did some one else test positive for testosterone during the Tour de France?

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:45:29 GMT

Here's a link to one of the best articles I've read on the subject of doping (and pertinent to this discussion): www.gladwell.com/.../2001_08_10_a_drug.htm

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:20:49 GMT

I'm sure there's a simple, logical explanation for his test result. Like, say, injecting himself with a banned substance.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

aquageek — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:59:46 GMT

Originally posted by Damage Inc Guilty until proven inocent. Thats the Tour de France and the French press. This isn't exactly guilty until proven innocent. He flunked the first test. He has the oppotunity to have his second sample tested now, as I understand it. Someone told me this morning his ratio was 11:1 - is that in fact true?

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:36:08 GMT

Justin Gatlin, the 2004 Olympic gold medalist who earlier this year tied the world record in the 100-meter dash, failed a doping test in April, testing positive for testosterone, he disclosed Saturday. Gatlin, 24, an athlete who had reveled in portraying himself as a "genuinely clean champion," tested positive April 22 at the Kansas Relays, an early spring milestone on the track and field calendar.The failed Kansas test came just weeks before Gatlin tied the world record in the 100 meters, 9.77 seconds, a race run May 12 in Doha, Qatar. Gatlin was not notified until June 15 he had tested positive, Myler said Saturday-which explains why he was able to run in Qatar and through the U.S. nationals in Indianapolis, where he won the 100 meters in 9.93 seconds.

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:17:08 GMT

He just needs a logical explanation ?Let's help. "After a bad 16th stage I pulled myself together and grew some balls overnight" or "I borrowed Jan's balls cause he didn't need them" or "I had a large plate of sweetbreads the night before"

RE: Latest L. Armstrong controversy

Former Member — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 05:25:59 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 I'm sure there's a simple, logical explanation for his test result. Like, say, injecting himself with a banned substance. Now that's funny!