How many yards a practice do you swim?

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:33:29 GMT

Originally posted by Ion Beza As for your telling me of being emaciated, you and many are chubby and too soft, weaklings. Me I am strong. Sure you are, that must be why you bonked at nationals and can't figure out why. Originally posted by Ion Beza Look at the International Boxing System. That reminds me, you should take up boxing. Put your best qualities together, overtraining and figting with people. You'd do much better there then in swimming. That's one place where someone wanting to fight all the time is actually appreciated. And in your 40's, you can still make elite ranks. I think you have a better shot there.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:49:50 GMT

originally posted by Gull80 I guess a related question (sorry to get back on topic) would be: What should be the relative percentages of En1, En2, and En3 sets (aerobic, anaerobic threshold, and overload endurance) at a Masters level? I think it's difficult to adequately distribute these swimming 3-4000/workout. That is a very good question. I have been looking over my workout logs (which I have been very behind in posting on my training blog BTW.....sorry Ande I will catch up soon I promise). I have estimated that on most workouts in which we swim around 7500 meters, that approximately 55% of the workout is at anaerobic threshhold and about 45% of the workout is warmup and aerobic base....We also do Lactate overload sets on certain days (which I think is pretty much the same thing that Ion has referred to ATP-CP in his last posting....only our coach just uses a different term for it?).....but we rarely do Lactate Overload sets on the same days that we do a lot of anearobic threshhold sets.....He mixes the workouts up so that we pretty much alternate between workouts that are more aneorobic Threshhold sets and workouts that are more Lactate overload sets.....since the lactate overload sets usually consist of shorter distances (like sets of 25's, 50's or 100's) with a lot of rest in between, we don't do nearly as much of the yardage in practice for these sets as the anearobic threshhold sets (which are usually 200's or 300's...sometimes 400's)....A typical Lactate overload set might be (6x 50's fast on 3:00 with a 50 easy in between each one...followed by 4 25's fast ...then a 200 easy) x2 ...or x3.....sometimes you can replace the 50's with 100's......He likes to follow something like the above with a set of 6 50's or 6 75's fast with lots of rest...only doing your best stroke other than freestyle. Usually the actual yardage for these lactate overload sets only account for 10- 20% of the entire workout.....the rest is mostly aerobic base with maybe a set of 10 x 100 kick at anearobic threshhold squeezed in there somewhere just to mix it up a little....So all in all we seem to be "kinda" following something like the Maglischo formula that Ion mentioned....but not exactly...we do a lot more aerobic than just 10% and not quite as much anearobic threshhold as in the Maglischo formula.....But as the season progresses maybe the workouts will change some and fit the formula from Ion's post better?...I think our coach wants us to build a strong aerobic base during the beggining of the season...and that's the reason for the higher percentage of aerobic sets....but then again I'm only guessing about that? Newmastersswimmer

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

dorothyrde — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:58:03 GMT

Yes, all coaches seem to throw a lot of aerobic in at the beginning to build up the base. I think every coach has their own little way of doing things, and it may not eaxctly follow Maglischo's model, but still is effective. I have also seen some swimmers not respond at all to this model and need something quite different to be good. We had a HS girl the last 4 years like that. She responded to less is better I think, and the other kids all thought she was not a hard worker. Yet she hit some National times in the 200 back, so she must have been doing something right!

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

dorothyrde — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:23:35 GMT

Originally posted by Ion Beza Craig, you do like Maglischo's Swimming Fastest, don't you? Maglischo says that for events up to 60 seconds, the aerobic glycosys accounts for 10%. It's 65% anaerobic threshold, 25% ATP-CP creation in anaerobic, 10% aerobic. .) Anaerobic threshold is: distance sets of repeats of two minutes swims in base minus five seconds, in lactic acid. .) ATP-CP creation in anaerobic is: breakouts, burst sprints repeated every up to 30 seconds. .) Aerobic is: long moderate swims on base using the lipolytic and glycolytic energies. I think it can work for events up to two mintes also, like 200 free. You can design workouts of 65%, 25%, 10% over a week, and over a season. Pieter van den Hoogenband (Ned.), the World Record holder in 100 meter free, trains in less than 6000 meters per day of speed, power, anaerobic and aerobic according to Maglischo's formula (and not TI's Stroke Length) of 65%, 25%, 10%, here: www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../200310-01st_art.asp Craig, remember me. Thank you for this post. I have read Maglischo, but he is so technical, I have to read him again and again and again. This answers several of our questions.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

dorothyrde — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:21:10 GMT

Originally posted by Ion Beza That's what you have to say to my technical post? Jealousy of someone who looks and is better, and grammar errors (40's is wrong in English, 40s is right, I taught you this before). Your post is looking for a fight. OK then, you get the fight. You didn't risk to race in Mission Viejo any individual event. You quit, you ducked the stepping on the blocks and risk to test yourself. You had no guts and failed more than the participants. When you can swim (like yards in 2005), you are much slower than me. Me against you, that's not a race. This culture erased possibilities of beauty and courage and shapes you as a flabby instead. Think if people who make an achievement in being attractive, are flabby. In contrast, sometimes I don't do well for my personal standards. But that's me against me. The highest race. For example, my 1500 free in Mission Viejo was in 22 minutes, it is a C time for me but still ranks #33 in my age group in 2005, and by society's standard that's something. For me, no, that's not good enough. But that's just me. Against me. You are a hypocryte because you will never reach 22 minutes in 1500 free Long Course but still attack it from your lower standards. You obviously have never run a big swim meet and have no clue the level of energy it takes. The exhaustion from running something like this is incredible, and I would have been surprised if Connie had swum since she was helping make sure that everyone else had the chance for a good swim. And I would bet money she will get under 22. Her rate of improvement is incredible.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:05:30 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 I guess a related question (sorry to get back on topic) would be: What should be the relative percentages of En1, En2, and En3 sets (aerobic, anaerobic threshold, and overload endurance) at a Masters level? I think it's difficult to adequately distribute these swimming 3-4000/workout. Craig, you do like Maglischo's Swimming Fastest, don't you? Maglischo says that for events up to 60 seconds, the aerobic glycosys accounts for 10%. It's 65% anaerobic threshold, 25% ATP-CP creation in anaerobic, 10% aerobic. .) Anaerobic threshold is: distance sets of repeats of two minutes swims in base minus five seconds, in lactic acid. .) ATP-CP creation in anaerobic is: breakouts, burst sprints repeated every up to 30 seconds. .) Aerobic is: long moderate swims on base using the lipolytic and glycolytic energies. I think it can work for events up to two mintes also, like 200 free. You can design workouts of 65%, 25%, 10% over a week, and over a season. Pieter van den Hoogenband (Ned.), the World Record holder in 100 meter free, trains in less than 6000 meters per day of speed, power, anaerobic and aerobic according to Maglischo's formula (and not TI's Stroke Length) of 65%, 25%, 10%, here: www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../200310-01st_art.asp Craig, remember me.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:45:46 GMT

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Sure you are, that must be why you bonked at nationals and can't figure out why. That reminds me, you should take up boxing. Put your best qualities together, overtraining and figting with people. You'd do much better there then in swimming. That's one place where someone wanting to fight all the time is actually appreciated. And in your 40's, you can still make elite ranks. I think you have a better shot there. That's what you have to say to my technical post? Jealousy of someone who looks and is better, and grammar errors (40's is wrong in English, 40s is right, I taught you this before). Your post is looking for a fight. OK then, you get the fight. You didn't risk to race in Mission Viejo any individual event. You quit, you ducked the stepping on the blocks and risk to test yourself. You had no guts and failed more than the participants. When you can swim (like yards in 2005), you are much slower than me. Me against you, that's not a race. This culture erased possibilities of beauty and courage and shapes you as a flabby instead. Think if people who make an achievement in being attractive, are flabby. In contrast, sometimes I don't do well for my personal standards. But that's me against me. The highest race. For example, my 1500 free in Mission Viejo was in 22 minutes, it is a C time for me but still ranks #33 in my age group in 2005, and by society's standard that's something. For me, no, that's not good enough. But that's just me. Against me. You are a hypocryte because you will never reach 22 minutes in 1500 free Long Course but still attack it from your lower standards.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:41:16 GMT

OK...butting in here....here's my .02, for whatever it's worth! I think there's definitely a fine line between being proud of your times and sharing them with others and then bragging about them and using them to pump up low self esteem and insecurity and to use it as a bashing tool. There is a particular person who comes to mind who swims at my club...he is almost constantly bragging about not only his times in meets, but his times during timed sets! He'll actually ask everyone around him during a timed set what their times were. What makes this even more annoying is that he sandbags during practices...he refuses to lead on a set (especially a distance set) when he is clearly faster, then swims on your toes. Grrrrr......:mad:

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:16:31 GMT

Perhaps somebody has a self-esteem problem. Why else would a person feel the need to belittle anothers swim time? I know that my times are not in the top 25%, heck they are probably not in the top 50%, but I don't really care. I have fun, I stay fit, and I am not the slowest guy in town. What more could I ask for?

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:54:57 GMT

Originally posted by swimr4life Sam, Do what I do....use your "ignore" function!! I don't like mean people and reading some of these posts upsets me and takes all the enjoyment out of this discussion board. Unfortunately the ignore button doesn't work if someone else is quoting that person. I am sorry for the previous post. I was out of line and stooping to a level where I don't belong...

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:12:16 GMT

I have no idea what any of the above post meant. Maybe I am stupid, but I am done. Sorry for getting involved in a very odd discussion.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:32:07 GMT

I guess a related question (sorry to get back on topic) would be: What should be the relative percentages of En1, En2, and En3 sets (aerobic, anaerobic threshold, and overload endurance) at a Masters level? I think it's difficult to adequately distribute these swimming 3-4000/workout.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

BillS — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:47:20 GMT

Ion, I admit that I am not as familiar with your "theories" (sic) as are some others here (due at least in part, I suppose, to the fact that I find your ranting screeds to be largely unintelligible, and your opinions expressed in them to be woefully misguided and unsupported by anything other than your own anecdotal evidence and snippets of quotes which, even when not taken out of context, generally fail to bolster your allegations a whit.) But notwithstanding my ignorance of your highly evolved constructs, from what I can glean from your posts should I not be commended for somehow rising above my obvious genetic shortcomings, through years of late blooming hard work and perserverence, to, despite those clear limitations, recognize and acknowledge your masterful references to what, by any measure of obscurity (think of the sources in relation to, say, a John Grisham novel) are indeed obscure? Should not all bow down to me, despite the fact that others have more posts; or better command of language, grammar, syntax, or even spelling, and acknowledge what I have been able to achieve from such a humble double helix? Oh, and by the way, the first post (like this one. Well, to a certain extent anyway) was a joke. A quip. A bon mot. You know, a little funny. You weren't the only one slinging references back and forth, and it struck me as funny that so many were taking the time to frantically leaf through their swimming books for quotes to use in debating the most arcane of points. Feelin' nearly faded as my genes. And a good day to all. You too, Ion.:D

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

art_z — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:09:59 GMT

Its amazing that certain individuals rag on others here about their times. That was fun to do in high school but I guess some of us never outgrow that mentality. :rolleyes:

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

swimr4life — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:27:39 GMT

Even though I swim around 4,000 yds in a workout, the intensity and distances of the main sets vary for each workout. Our coach is great at mixing it up so we don't get overtrained and/or bored! Is it necessary to train each energy system in each individual workout or is it better to spread them out? Doesn't it accomplish the same goal if you spread it out?

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:17:03 GMT

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Have you looked at Gary Hall Jr? He doesn't look nearly as emaceated as you. I bet you his weight is a lot closer to Art's then yours. He put on weight in 2005. In 2004 he was slimmer. In 1999, before the diabetes, he was very slim. At that time he was 6'6" and 180. As for your telling me of being emaciated, you and many are chubby and too soft, weaklings. Me I am strong. Look at the International Boxing System. Not U.S. and its sumo standards, but International. The weight class of 154 pounds is called light-middleweight. It is not emaciated. You got that wrong. Too mch U.S. in you, I guess. I weigh 155. So, I am a light-middleweight internationally. Not emaciated in sumo U.S.. In the 154 light-middleweight class, boxers around my height and weight are examples of me. Bernard Hopkins (U.S.) is 6'1" and 154, an over 40 professional boxer that counters knelson's claim that 40s is not a time for best. Oscar de la Hoya (Mex.) is 5'11' and 154. Go international, where is normal. Don't go U.S., and its sumo eye-sore weaklings who cannot benchpress much because "I hurt my back two years ago." and such. Fat = eye-sore, ugly. Fat = weak physically. Fat = poor aerobic.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

swimr4life — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:16:00 GMT

Sam, My comment definitely was not directed at you!! I was just trying to help you avoid the trap that I have fallen into. When someone attacks you, just add them to your "ignore" list! I've had "discussions" with this person before that accomplished nothing positive. Just avoid letting him draw you into his web. You are human and reacted the way anyone who is attacked would!

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:04:34 GMT

Originally posted by Ion Beza Artie, van den Hoogenband (Ned.) is 6'4" and 162 pounds. He has the World Record in 100 meter free, and top times in 400 and 1500 free. You wrote yourself that an 180 pounds has an advantage on you being 240. Your aerobic has room to improve by trimming down. Have you looked at Gary Hall Jr? He doesn't look nearly as emaceated as you. I bet you his weight is a lot closer to Art's then yours.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:00:44 GMT

Originally posted by Ion Beza Artie, in my example of the truck driver, it is the driver's responsability to address the conditions of the road. When you are 240, it is your responsabilty to not be like that. It is your irresponsability to not address it, and be 240. When I am a late bloomer, it is my responsability given fact A to address it. When you disregard late bloomer, you disregard fact A. I don't disregard fact A, late bloomer. Me, I address fact A, late bloomer. Your 240 pounds, they are your irresponsability, you don't address them and that's being indecent. Speaking of responsibility, by the same logic it is your responsibility to address the deficiencies in your social interactions. But, you refuse to be responsible for that, and to use your words: "they are your irresponsability, you don't address them and that's being indecent."

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

dorothyrde — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:56:39 GMT

Does it help to distribute the energy system over several work-outs, one day work on 1 and two another day 2 and 3?

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Frank Thompson — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:56:35 GMT

Ion: That 3:06.17 was swam doing backstroke in the event 200 Free because they did not offer the 200 backstroke as an event at the meet. The whole point of my statement was that you attacked a swimmer who was making a point about TI. That he was confused by your explanations and the reference materials that you were quoting being obscure to him. There was no putdown or criticism in his tone. Then you made the outrageous statement "You can't do much about it, its in the genetics" and I used an example of how that could be applied to yourself. The other point that Bill S made was that he gave up TV and that he was actually better for doing it. Again he made no putdown or criticism by using "he whose name must not be mentioned". Sam is right, there is always going to be someone faster and if he said my statement was uncalled for I would agree with him. I used my example to let you see that making outrageous statements are totally uncalled for.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:52:03 GMT

Artie, van den Hoogenband (Ned.) is 6'4" and 162 pounds. He has the World Record in 100 meter free, and top times in 400 and 1500 free. You wrote yourself that an 180 pounds has an advantage on you being 240. Your aerobic has room to improve by trimming down.

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:45:56 GMT

I have found that my yardage needs are actually much higher than I first suspected....but I am a distance swimmer now (newly proclaimed in fact)....I have been swimming around 8000 - 10,000 yards a day on MWF and around 7000 - 8000 on Saturday mornings....I have really noticed a difference in my conditioning level lately as a result....I can now hold times on sets with much less fatigue than I was able to do just a month or two ago....I am feeling a little sore from it...but not too sore.....I would say my yardage needs are problably much higher than most of the other swimmers here though. Newmastersswimmer

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:38:48 GMT

It's not really so much about arguing with Ion that I am complaining about....it has more to do with the fact that I feel Ion has hijacked a number of decent threads here on the discussion board spanning over a time period of who knows exactly???(many of these were threads that I once enjoyed visiting and posting comments on that were about the the original thread title).......and as others here have pointed out....As soon as Ion joins a thread it then transforms from being the thread associated to it's original topic into a new thread which is always pretty much the same thread then....some have referred to it as "The Ion Beza Thread"....the only real substantial difference between one hijacked Ion Beza Thread and the next is the exact nature of the insults offered up by Ion and the targets of his insults.....for example, the reference to genetics here as an attempt to belittle someone's intelligence was a new one.....the insults do share common themes though....and like I said ....the main focus is of course Ion Beza and his times and how he's better than everyone else in almost every way. Sure I could just ignore it...and I probably should...sometimes it's humorous as Sam pointed out in another Ion Beza Thread .....and like a car wreck you can't seem to avoid reading it and joining in on some level.....but of course anyone here who complains about people arguing with Ion should point some of those same complaints at themselves since they also could simply avoid the thread all together as well right?....No one is making those people chime in with thier two cents worth either....It is futile though no matter how often I or anyone else keeps falling into the Ion Beza trap again. Newmastersswimmer

RE: How many yards a practice do you swim?

Former Member — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:28:57 GMT

I would say, Craig, slightly lower the volume and increase the intensity. Also -from painful personal experience- rest more than last year. Swim in an almost constant state of semi-taper, for fast workouts and confidence boost.