Stand up If You're a Triathlete

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:06:52 GMT

Wow, I actually agree with you on something Geek. I also see no major problem with the USMS honor system.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

aquageek — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:21:28 GMT

Originally posted by Conniekat8 Or we could charge two or three hundred bucks as the entry fee for the nationals, so we could pay for the manpower to verify the times. Intelectualizing about things on this forum doesn't get much accomplished. I don't believe it would take a herculean effort to do this. If all USMS sanctioned meets were required to submit results via the web to USMS, it wouldn't take a great deal of time, money or brain power to dump these into a table that entries for nationals could be verified against. I'm personally in favor of the honor system and don't think anyone is getting away with cheating on a grand order with the current system.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 06:11:42 GMT

Geek, I'm a roving kibitzer with contrarian leanings. I certainly don't think there is any problem with the USMS honor system (no don't get me started on sandbaggers, Michael Heather would start pounding his keyboard). I did notice (to my eye) that here seemed a lot of no-shows at this Nats, or was it not positive check-in?

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 05:53:49 GMT

I do not see a problem with the current honor system for the Nationals. People that put in false times in order to swim the full complement of events at nationals are on their own. I don't think cheating of that nature is that prevalent; and even so - if you put in a time well below of what you are capable and finish way off - the embarrasment alone should be punishment enough. Usually only your teammates and a few others would know, but that should be enough to deter most individuals from such a deceitful ploy. It's not that big of a deal.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 05:22:38 GMT

Wow, the geek and damage agreeing? Peace in our time! Damage, there's this arch-adversary of Geek's (a late bloomin' kind of swimmer) you should meet...

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 05:13:33 GMT

Originally posted by Ken Classen By the way as Tall Paul can attest, there have been many of us who would prefer provable qual times at nationals not the honor system. Somewhere there's a thread on that. That topic has been debated ad-nauseum. It's not so much that the QT's are honor system, it's that USMS does not have the man power and the times database to do the verifications. If we had the droves of people volunteering to help with verifications like there are droves of people complaining about it being based on honor system (by default), times would be verified. Of course, we could also raise your dues, let's say double, and implement a snazzy computerized national database and hire people to maintain it. Or we could charge two or three hundred bucks as the entry fee for the nationals, so we could pay for the manpower to verify the times. I would like to invite those who don't like the system to come to their local LMSC meetings and start contributing where it counts and where they can make changes. Intelectualizing about things on this forum doesn't get much accomplished.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

aquageek — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:42:10 GMT

When did we start offering reciprocal memberships to Canadians? Someone check Cruise's status and get back to me.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:41:26 GMT

No, I dont have one but I sure wish I did, because making it to the IronMan Kona Championships is quite difficult where only the top guys in there national age groups make it in by qualifying in other IronMan races. This is much different than The USMS National Championships where there are qualifying times, but, well, you dont really have to be that fast, you only have to write it in.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:11:36 GMT

Originally posted by gjy "it just seems that there are far more in the "tri world". Posers luuuv equipment so combining bikes and suits is killer! OK, there seems to be quite a bit of uneasyness when it comes to triathlon equipment. Let me help out a bit. 1. Helmet. required equipment, much more protective than a swim cap during 30 mph mishaps. I try not to get the "budget buy" on this one. 2. Sunglasses. More versatile than goggles. 3. Wet Suit. Its the norm, its in the rules, and it helps distinguish us from the pure swimmers who are only there as a relay member (posers). 4. Aqua Sphere goggles. Needed to spot relay swimmers to draft off of them. 5. Tri Top. Better UV protection than skin and highlights muscle definition better. 5a. Tri shorts. Shorter than bike shorts, and never ever be seen in those speedos that swimmers wear. 6. Bike. Required equipment for the 2nd leg. 7. Clip-on aero bars. Make you look fast. 8. Disk areo wheels. Sound really cool. 9. Tri/Timetrial Bike. Optional, but makes you look fast like Lance. 10. H2O bottles. Better than cups. 11. Towel. Good for wiping sweat and Gatorade off your bike. 12. Running Shoes. Fins are absolutly illegal in tris. 13 Running Hat. Supports someone elses sponsor. 14. H2O belt. No thanks. 15. Heart Rate Monitor. Makes a cool gift. Hope this helps out.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:20:48 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek I've seen gull80 in his performance enhancing fastskin. I'm fairly certain hard work is the key to his success. Yes, but you still beat me in the 50 wearing jammers. In my defense, I'm older and don't have a single fast twitch fiber in my body.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

aquageek — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:24:43 GMT

Requirements for swimming - pool/lake/ocean, suit, goggles I think Damage has summed it all up. There are 15 requirements for being a triathlete, 11 of which are solely to make yourself look "cool." In swimming I find to be the best you have to beat the best (a quote I will attribute to Ric Flair, a Charlotte resident). Apparently in triathloning you just have to look like the best to be the best. It's also mandatory to get the ironman tattoo or bumpersticker. Admit it, Damage, you have one on your car, fess up.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:51:04 GMT

Originally posted by Damage Inc No, I dont have one but I sure wish I did, because making it to the IronMan Kona Championships is quite difficult where only the top guys in there national age groups make it in by qualifying in other IronMan races. This is much different than The USMS National Championships where there are qualifying times, but, well, you dont really have to be that fast, you only have to write it in. There is something known as the Lotto for Kona. I had a guy couple of years ago showed up to my Masters practice at the end of August. Said he was doing the Ironman in Kona in 6 weeks and needed to get in swim shape. After watching him swim a 100, my first thought was "they have a swim time cut off time don't they". My first question for him was when did he qual? His response he had not qualified he made it in via the lotto. As I know several Tri-athletes who worked there butt's off to qual I really thought it was disservice to them to have the lotto. By the way as Tall Paul can attest, there have been many of us who would prefer provable qual times at nationals not the honor system. Somewhere there's a thread on that.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:39:00 GMT

I thought this was sensativity training.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:10:50 GMT

Originally posted by Kevin in MD The roadies dislike it so much they have rules madating that in a bike race you must have sleeves on your jersey. That's because they were embarrassed by the massive guns of the triathletes that showed up. Ha! That's really funny! I agree with you! I just joined a fully sponsored road racing team and I can barely squeeze my swimmer arms into a size medium womens jersey. And I'm barely swimming right now. Looks like I'll have to buy an XL jersey next year! But really, I think they made sleeved-jerseys a rule because sponsored road racing teams have many sponsors that need to be advertised on the jerseys. And if they allowed sleveless jerseys to be worn in races, then many teams would have trouble squishing all their sponsors onto the jersey. And there's a rule that states the team name must be on both the front and back, clearly visible, and not swallowed up by a montage of other sponsors logos.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

aquageek — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:14:55 GMT

Originally posted by gjy A sport for late bloomers? This thread might have more relevance to this USMS community than I originally thought. Do you have opinions on V02Max?

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:47:57 GMT

"it just seems that there are far more in the "tri world". Posers luuuv equipment so combining bikes and suits is killer! Guaranteed those legs are shaved and shining! A triathlon is a race of all posers. The worst one wins. Triathletes are typically born late after each individual sport passed them by. It's an attempt to claim lost glory. I apologize; I'm just laughing at myself. I'm lower than a triathlete. I run, cycle, and swim but I don't officially compete. My heart is with the triathlete but I've never had good enough recovery time to be great at any individual sport let alone three together. I'm relegated to being the poser of a poser. I even buy my cycling clothes from tri stores.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:39:38 GMT

Posers: Triathletes make this exact point about each other. One of my old college swim team mates turned pro on the Tri circuit in the 1980s. I went with him to watch him compete in a tri (coincidentally, the first he won). Just before the race, he pointed out to me guys who had the cutting edge, thousands of dollars bikes. He pointed out that none of them would be anywhere near the leaders, and in fact a superexpensive bike was an indicator it's rider was NOT a serious threat to win the race. Like one of the Australian olympic swimmers said about fastskins just before the 2000 Games, if I'm ready to swim, I could be wearing a brown paper sack and it wouldn't matter. Triathletes who work hard: some swimmers have accused tri-guys of not wanting to work hard at swimming. Some of the tri-guys have shot back that in the swim workouts they observed, the triathletes were more focused and business-like, with less "yiketty-yak" than the swimmers. Both are partially true, and this clearly illustrates the differing mindsets. Swimming ain't running or biking. Tri-guys want to do swim training the same way they do the other two sports: high volume, low rest interval, go as fast as possible in as much pain as they can take as long as possible. In short, pure aerobic training. (hence the term "aerobocops") What they don't get is that in swimming, pure guts will only get you so far. Many of them resist the idea that just improving technique would result in far more improvement in their swim times than any amount of conditioning with their old and lousy swim habits. I have inadvertantly eaves dropped on triathletes complaining about TI instructors who want them to focus on balance drills when they are 4-6 weeks from their tri-race. To a tri-guy, swimmers look like they are slacking off in workout. Swimmers think they are doing slow stroke drills to work on technique. Or, they are doing speed training that can only be done with lots of rest between swims. Swimmers and triathletes trying to talk to each other is sometimes like two people who don't speak each other's language trying to communicate by speaking ever louder and more slowly. Posers, part deux: I resent (and resemble) the remark that posers finish in the bottom 10% of the race, and that those who finish in the bottom 10% are posers. It's all relative. I sometimes swim at USMS Nationals, where I regularly finish in the bottom 10% (and this would be the case if I broke personal records). I may look like a "poser" at that level, but I can show you some other venues where I'd look much better. Let's look at what else we could mean by poser--someone who does not work as hard and looks unsuccessfully for short-cuts to going faster. Well golly Sgt Carter, compared to my college days, I am absolutely, positively a posing slacker 'cause I don't do near the same volume or intensity of work. (Comes with have A JOB, and BTW the same applies to all but a handful of the people reading this post.) In that sense, we swimmers ought to acknowledge that the one thing triathletes do better and more off than we do (on average, in general) is spend countless hours on road work. They may be technique block-heads, but they kill us when it comes to the number of hours spent working-out. Mediocrity: I have met several serious triathletes who pursue that sport with all their heart, then dive into the pool where they are among the fastest swimmers on the team, AND leading the stroke and IM sets too. It is a false dicotomy to claim that pursuing triathloning prevents you from being an outstanding stroke swimmer. Excellence is excellence (and to be blunt, God-given athletic talent usually trumps both coaching and conditioning). So will someone please tie Aquageek to a bicycle frame, and give him 50 lashes with a heart rate monitor? If you really want to have fun, give him a choice between that or 20 hours of sensitivity training. I'm betting he'll take the heart rate monitor. Matt

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

aquageek — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 04:17:21 GMT

First of all, I'm glad I have company in the bottom 10% at nationals. While comforting, it's also a little discouraging. Second, I acutally have taken 15 hours of sensitivity training this summer, believe it or not. It's actually called something else and it's at my church but it's the same basic thing. I'll lay off the tris. I'm happy to swim with anyone.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Swimmy — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:59:29 GMT

Ladies, Listen carefully. You can hear the primitive tribal chest beating and knuckle dragging. Very interesting...almost as good as the great jammer and speedo debate! hahaha Swimmy:)

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Kevin in MD — Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:04:40 GMT

Originally posted by Damage Inc Any-Hoo,Back to the reason for this thread; Triathlets need a thread on this site to feel good about themselves and not be ashamed of being a USMS member and participant. So whats your favorite Tri Swim workout? That's a pretty solid workout except on the bike ride home I make sure to wear a sleeveless jersey and try to find some roadies to ride with. Or solo in front of, you see the swimming helps build the shoulders and arms so gthe sleeveless jersey is essential. Th roadies dislike it so much they have rules madating that in a biek race you must have sleeves on your jersey. That's because they were embarrassed by the massive guns of the triathletes that showed up.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:53:45 GMT

It's because triathletes use wetsuits to help keep their hips from sinking and to swim faster. It's like swimming with flippers.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:47:29 GMT

I agree with what FMIF said about the wetsuit/no-wetsuit debate. The reason I have never gotten one is that I can't really afford to pay $350 for a decent one. I also have a fairly high tolerance for cold water (and weather for that matter: I routinely ride my bike to work wearing shorts and a tshirt even in temperatures down to 30). I do stand by my assertion that there should always be separate categories for people who swim (or do triathlons) without a wetsuit. There is something to be said for taking on the cold water wearing nothing but a standard suit.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Former Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:15:58 GMT

i believe that wetsuits can only be used if the water is below a very cold temperature.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

Rob Copeland — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:21:50 GMT

Absolutely TRUE! The wetsuit corrects body position flaws in poor swimmers (it’s hard to drag you butt a foot below the water if you’re floating like a cork), while most good swimmers are already in a good position without the wetsuit. Additionally the wetsuit acts like a pull buoy, so the poor swimmer with a bad kick can just drag their feet.

RE: Stand up If You're a Triathlete

aquageek — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:07:45 GMT

Someone once told me that wetsuits provide the biggest benefit to average swimmers and minimal benefit to either good or poor swimmers. Is this true?