FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:58:15 GMT

Just wondering can we still use the dolphin kick for the fly????

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

art_z — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:17:24 GMT

Originally posted by knelson I'd also expect we'll see "standup starts" in pools where they can be done. Remember those? You stand on the edge of the gutter and lean over the top of the block. You can either get a really good start or a really good back smacker :) Remeber them? Man do I miss them!! being 6'3" made it alot easier (and gave me a heck of an advantage) to do them rather than trying to curl up in a little ball for a regular backstroke start like I need to now :( am I reading this correctly that you can now, again, put your feet on the gutter if one is available? It used to be that as long as part of your foot was in the water, you were ok, which I could live with. when they forced the whole foot under water, it made the start a nightmare, especially with slippery pads/walls, where it was impossible to launch yourself out at all.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:48:09 GMT

Boy, what a strong breaststroke kick to set worlds records in fly.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Betsy — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:57:49 GMT

Backstroke start - my understanding of the rule change is that the toes do not have to be underwater, but you cannot use the gutter.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:57:44 GMT

I have to agree with Swimmer Bill. I do love my breaststroke, but the coach and purist in me says get rid of the breaststroke kick in fly. That being said when I was younger I placed third behind Charles Hickox and Duncon Scott in a 200 butterfly once using *** kick. And a couple of years later I won the 12th Naval District 200 fly using all dolphin kick, as the rules had been changed in AAU requiring it. Much sweeter:D

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:44:29 GMT

Originally posted by Allen Stark It's terrible,awful,heinous,evil,horrendous,and probably blasphemous. It's also just lazy,making it"easier" to judge. That said,when does the new rule go into effect(when should I start practicing it?) LOL! My thought was "Way to codify cheating!" But then again, Masters swimming has allowed breaststroke kick in butterfly for years. I can understand allowing swimmers who learned it that way to do that (grandfather clause?). However, I know a swimmer who breaks world records doing breaststroke kick in butterfly -- not because she learned it that way, but because she is a strong breaststroker. IMHO, that's an unfair and self-serving manipulation of the original intent of the rule, which was to allow the old-timers who learned it that way to do it that way. If there's ever a rule change proposal to eliminate breaststroke kick from the butterfly in Masters competition, I'd vote yes. Emphatically!

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:32:43 GMT

it's a shame we can't just dolphin kick till we run out of breath off the start and each turn That rule works for me, lately I am lucky to get past the flags off a turn. To quote Jagger: "What a drag it is getting old"

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:25:39 GMT

If an American had started this dolphin cheating the rule would not have been adopted. FINA did the 1986 rule change because the europeans were beating us with a then illegal over the water recovery and the head dipping under water. So when someone else in the world finds a way to cheat and beat the Americans, they change the rules. The hard core breaststrokers like Allen and myself immediately tried the dolphin on the underwater after Kitijima's CHEATING. It does work and is faster. Note the rule allows only one dolphin, Kitijima did two off each start. A single downward dolphin kick followed by a breaststroke kick is permitted while wholly submerged. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

ande — Thu, 08 Sep 2005 04:11:32 GMT

it's a shame we can't just dolphin kick till we run out of breath off the start and each turn since it's a new rule I've been working on it in practice trying to maximize the timing, speed and propulsion ande Originally posted by breastroker If an American had started this dolphin cheating the rule would not have been adopted. FINA did the 1986 rule change because the europeans were beating us with a then illegal over the water recovery and the head dipping under water. So when someone else in the world finds a way to cheat and beat the Americans, they change the rules. The hard core breaststrokers like Allen and myself immediately tried the dolphin on the underwater after Kitijima's CHEATING. It does work and is faster. Note the rule allows only one dolphin, Kitijima did two off each start. A single downward dolphin kick followed by a breaststroke kick is permitted while wholly submerged. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Karen Duggan — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:03:01 GMT

I was told you still cannot curl your toes over the edge, anyone else heard that? These rule changes are irritating to say the least. Why do we have to follow the Europeans? That's it I'm starting out for the new land and starting my own "free" swim colony. We will not be oppressed with all of these rules!!! And no taxes to the king either "p

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

A.K. — Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:27:48 GMT

You can do a fly kick after your turn, your head can go under water after each stroke....these were all things I was DQd for 20 years ago.....what gives?

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

michaelmoore — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:55:54 GMT

Read USMS Rule book 601.4.6 - Amendment to USA Swimming articles 101, 102 and 105 are automatically be adopted unless the USMS House of Delegates votes to reject. The FINA rule will be adopted. There is no reason not to. michael

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

kaffrinn — Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:20:00 GMT

Originally posted by knelson I'd also expect we'll see "standup starts" in pools where they can be done. Remember those? I am so excited...I love stand-up starts! They are so much faster for me.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:10:33 GMT

Originally posted by Alicat So, does anyone know if the new rules were part of the new world record swim in the woman's 100 meter *** the other day? They were not.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

joy — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:14:01 GMT

If the rule goes into effect in sept. for fina. does that mean masters will vote on it at convention this yr for our effect this yr. So we may not be able to use it for some time yet. Correcto if incorrecto

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Jeff Commings — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:47:11 GMT

The rule goes into effect in September.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:48:56 GMT

Dolphin kick on breastroke pull out. Just say it for what it really is............ "cheating". John Smith

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:27:47 GMT

So, does anyone know if the new rules were part of the new world record swim in the woman's 100 meter *** the other day?

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

aquageek — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:58:21 GMT

Originally posted by knelson Weather delays stink, but I love outdoor meets. Swimming is meant to be done outdoors. I agree but given this ridiculous heat wave, our outdoor pool, which we get for the summer, the whole 10 lanes, was 90 degress this morning. It was brutal.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

knelson — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:44:57 GMT

Originally posted by PeirsolFan In other news, I heard FINA is supposedly now pushing for indoor venues in future events because of the weather trouble in Montreal. That would be a nice change. Weather delays stink, but I love outdoor meets. Swimming is meant to be done outdoors.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

TRYM_Swimmer — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:22:23 GMT

The reason it is called pulldown is that it should be performed (pull) with the arms and the other parts of the body: head, trunk, legs, should be "quiet." Period!!! Sorry, fellow breaststrokers, our fraternity has been invaded by the body surfers who couldn't stand being passed in a blur during the third leg of the IM. Sure makes workouts easy from now on, though. Just set after set of body dolphin for everyone! End of rant. Back to our regular programming.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:12:36 GMT

If we are going to make all of these changes why don't we just change the two hand touch and allow people to use whatever type of turn is best. Seriously though, why have the two hand touch requirement? Hook'em Blue

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Allen Stark — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:03:37 GMT

I loved the 1986 Breaststroke rule change. It made breaststroke speed more dependent on streamlining and the stroke more beautiful. Before then any sport show that had a swimmer in the openig montage always had a butterflyer,now sometimes it's a breaststroker. As I read the new rule it is confusing. If the dolphin kick is part of the pull down I don't like it but it makes sense from a judging perspective. What I read doesn't say that ,It says a dolphin kick may be done before the breaststroke kick. I agree that means one could easily cheat and do 2 by making the big one before or after the pull down. Hopefully when the formal rule is printed it will clarify this.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Former Member — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:28:45 GMT

Originally posted by Phil Arcuni You are right, PeirsoFan. either I am outdated or I have entered an alternate universe from the one I was in. So what was the finish rule change about? (shrug) I couldn't figure it out. Perhaps the media confused it with the breastroke changes. FINA's rule SW 6.3 "It shall be permissible for the swimmer to be completely submerged during the turn, at the finish, and for a distance of not more than 15 meters after the start and each turn." That's been around for awhile. In other news, I heard FINA is supposedly now pushing for indoor venues in future events because of the weather trouble in Montreal. That would be a nice change.

RE: FINA allows dolphin kick for breaststroke

Rob Copeland — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 04:57:55 GMT

Originally posted by Allen Stark It's terrible,awful,heinous,evil,horrendous,and probably blasphemous. Makes you long for those good old days when your head had to stay above the water, your hands below it and you kicked like a frog.