Sullivan award

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:03:52 GMT

Yes, I was merely disagreeing with you on the fact that I don't think it's a terrible thing that Paul won. I was saying don't hate me, because this is a swimming site and I know that everyone was pulling for Michael. originally posted by Seagurl I guess I could let it slide this ONE time!........But I do still hate you none-the-less! (j/k of course!)......Actually I think you make a good point about Paul Hamm deserving the award....o.k....there I said it. Newmastersswimmer

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:29:14 GMT

Newmastersswimmer-- Yes, I was merely disagreeing with you on the fact that I don't think it's a terrible thing that Paul won. I was saying don't hate me, because this is a swimming site and I know that everyone was pulling for Michael.

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:21:25 GMT

Please don't hate me originally posted by Seagurl Well....I think it's gone far beyond just the point of hatred now hasn't it??? (J/k of course) I am supposing your disagreement with me is ONLY over the issue of who deserves the award between Micheal and Paul?....b/c on the other issue of whether or not Paul deserved the Gold Medal.....I believe the stance I took in my original posting is in concordance with yours....right? Newmastersswimmer

RE: Sullivan award

Rob Copeland — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:50:52 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB Of course, I wonder if FINA ought not be renamed FINP too. ;) Lindsay the NA in FINA is for “NATATION” which is French for swimming.

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:46:44 GMT

At the World Championships (SMC) that they had in Indy, didn't you get $15,000 if you broke the world record? I thought I'd heard or read somewhere that at certain meets the winners did get a monetary prize.

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:13:23 GMT

I guess I could let it slide this ONE time!........But I do still hate you none-the-less! (j/k of course!)......Actually I think you make a good point about Paul Hamm deserving the award....o.k....there I said it. Newmastersswimmer Thanks Jim!!

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:55:41 GMT

I also have personal issues with the Hamms that I won't get into here ... Kermit rocks! And don't dis the Chamois those things come in handy in long meets!

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:52:15 GMT

Hamm has a funny little high squeaky voice also which counts against gymnastics as being a legit sport. originally posted by the geek Kinda like Kermit the Frog!.....How appropo! Newmastersswimmer

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:07:55 GMT

Exactly Geek! Gymnastics and swimming can't really be compared no. But in terms of dominace I think Michael beats Hamm hands down. Hamm potentially had a chance at eight medals (all around, team, and each of the six individual events) whereas, Michael actually won eight medals. Mike medaled in everything he swam. He has verastility (IM, fly, free) too. The all around medal in gymnastics is the most difficult to win no doubt. So that right there puts Paul in darn good company. I was a gymnast for about 10 years and so I will defend the sport of gymnastics and it's athletes. But I think Phelps is a better overall athlete than Paul. It's subjective no doubt and no there is not a way to easily state who is better. I remember Sports Illustrated ( I think) did a study about 10 years ago where they took tons of different athletes and had them try all the other sports. Gymnasts had the easiest time. To be a good gymnast you have to strong, flexible, agile, quick, and so on, skills that are no doubt helpful but not necessary to the same degree in every sport. Maybe that all sounds hypocritical, I don't know ... but with all that said, I still think Phelps is the better athlete probably also because I think he is just about the most talented athlete in the world. I don't think Mark Spitz could replicate his seven gold medals, and I don't mean at his current age - I mean if he was in his prime now I don't think he could do it. I believe he has stated that he couldn't because the competition is so much more difficult now. I guess more off of sheer dominance in the sport I would say Phelps is the better athlete. Not to take anything away from Hamm, because he is a tremendous athlete, has worked insanely hard, and DESERVED his gold medal.

RE: Sullivan award

aquageek — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:23:26 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan when are swimmers going to be paid for their actual performances, like: golf, bowling, etc... When swim meets become somewhat more exciting than watching paint drying.

RE: Sullivan award

Karen Duggan — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:17:51 GMT

Back to the issue of money... when are swimmers going to be paid for their actual performances, like: golf, bowling, etc... It's always bothered me that people are considered professional for taking endorsements- I see people who get paid for specific, actual events (Augusta, TPC, etc) as professional. Swim meets don't offer purses!!!!!!! The only purse at a swim meet is the one I keep my wallet in. I'm just waiting for swimmers to be paid like basketball, baseball, etc. (I know it will never happen for too many reasons to mention here) By the way, speaking of athletes- I do not think baseball players are anywhere nearly as good OVERALL athletes as swimmers. Sure, one eye is a little off kilter (so they can see that fastball) and they can throw well, but I don't think their overall conditioning is impressive (albeit some of them are quite good looking :p) Anybody remember when Biondi and Jager had their sprint tour? They made some bucks with that... More ramblings from the sleep-deprived, looking to stay awake at work!

RE: Sullivan award

jswim — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 04:05:05 GMT

I have to agree.. the chamois are key to diving.. I was a diver before I started swimming. When you are constantly getting in and out of the water and standing still for awhile before you do a dive again, It really helps if you're dry, especially if you need your muscles to be warmed up for the next dive, and it's an outside pool and it's windy! Using a towell doesn't work. It gets soaking wet. chamois work like a charm! ps. they're great for backpacking too!

RE: Sullivan award

aquageek — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:41:52 GMT

Hamm has a funny little high squeaky voice also which counts against gymnastics as being a legit sport. Kind of like how diving is excluded from serious consideration due to the use of those silly little chamois things to dry off.

RE: Sullivan award

jswim — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:39:27 GMT

Heather, btw.. I like your kermit icon.. I had a friend who used to dive with me and at all the diving meets she would bring her Kermit as a good luck charm... I loved it! Her name was Heather as well!

RE: Sullivan award

jswim — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:35:40 GMT

ahhhh... well, put it that way I suppose I see your point. Thanks for the explanation! I didn't really think about the fact that Phelps did in fact pretty much dominate the sport (at least during the last olympics) Interesting comparison! Jeanette.. I think I still throw up my hands as to who's the better athlete. :rolleyes: Jeanette.

RE: Sullivan award

aquageek — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:56:29 GMT

It's a proven fact swimmers are better athletes.

RE: Sullivan award

jswim — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:39:13 GMT

Originally posted by SwiminONandON Going back to the Sullivan award, I do think Phelps is the better athelte, I also agree that I wouldn't describe Phelps as an ammature athlete, Paul Hamm either. He has some endoresment deals, too. Just curious, how do you compare gymnastics and Swimming? I was struck by the fact that you think Phelps is a better athlete. How can you tell? It's like comparing apples and oranges.. J. Not that I agree or disagree, just curious as to how you came to that conclusion..

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:40:07 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB Exactly what definition of amateur are they using that Phelps would even qualify as an amateur athlete? You think Paul Hamm hasn't made any money by being a gymnast?

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:30:20 GMT

LOL Geek ... ha ... Phelps did win it last year ... he's got plenty of awards ahead of him, too!

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:41:50 GMT

Originally posted by Fritz You think Paul Hamm hasn't made any money by being a gymnast? I'm not that familiar with Paul Hamm's history, perhaps he should not have been considered either. That doesn't change the fact that I can think of no definition of amateur that would cover Phelps. Of course, I wonder if FINA ought not be renamed FINP too. ;)

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:36:55 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek I have been reading more on this award on various websites. Appears the voting was incredibly close between Phelps and Hamm. Apparently, Phelps lost by .08. Wow, that's amazing. I would have hated to be on that judging committee. There have been so many incredible athletic performances this year, I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to pick just one.

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:27:27 GMT

This is also why I like swimming more than gymnastics. Gymnastics is so darn political. (Not that swimming doesn't have it's political moments *cough Peirsol cough*) However, the Code of Points in gymnastics is difficult to understand even for veteran gymnasts and coaches. The scoring is so subjective. The judge has to see it to deduct it and that creates a whole other set of problems ... basically the best gymnasts aren't always winning. There are multiple judges and the scores are averaged ... I find it hard to believe that NONE of the judges noticed that he had four holds. Also, his coach didn't appeal the score until later. Paul Hamm was the best gymnast on that night and he deserved to win. Going back to the Sullivan award, I do think Phelps is the better athelte, I also agree that I wouldn't describe Phelps as an ammature athlete, Paul Hamm either. He has some endoresment deals, too.

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:50:45 GMT

Ok here is where I get really fired up! The guy that challenged Paul Hamm's gold medal had no reason too. He actually benefited from a judging error. He placed higher than he should have. He had three pauses in his p-bar routine. You are allowed 3, the fourth one should have caused him a .2 deduction (minimum). Paul Hamm also had to really fight back to win that medal. After a disaterous vault it looked like he was totally out of it, but he came back and rocked p-bars and high bar. He did amazing. He absolutely deserved to win his gold medal. Since you are so big on people checking their facts before they make statements about things you would think you would have done the same ... Not to take away anything from Phelps. I am not arguing for or against Hamm, just that you are mistaken in thinking that Hamm didn't deserve that medal.

RE: Sullivan award

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:48:45 GMT

Exactly what definition of amateur are they using that Phelps would even qualify as an amateur athlete?

RE: Sullivan award

aquageek — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:18:35 GMT

I have been reading more on this award on various websites. Appears the voting was incredibly close between Phelps and Hamm. Apparently, Phelps lost by .08.