Shoulder pain:

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:15:44 GMT

eh, swim through the pain ... I'm a bit of a masochist ... I think there is a bit of a point to that though. There are times when you have a twinge of pain and it gets better when you swim a few hundred yards and there are times when it is going to hurt worse. I had some tendonitis issues going on in my brief high school swim career and was told I wouldn't do any more damage but it would hurt. I chose to stop swimming and now I regret ... now I would swim through it but again I am a bit of a masochist and I really wouldn't recommend swimming through it to anyone else ... disregard that message ... When in doubt get in checked out!

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:10:00 GMT

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming Just a little update on my shoulder soreness that I had about a week ago.I am happy to state that it is almost gone.I did the following: I took two complete days off from swimming, then swam 3 days in a row paying very close attention to my technique, I also cut down on my butterfly for now(about 150m. per work-out only), I started icing up my shoulders right after the work-out and before going to bed.I also ordered therabands which should be coming in a day or two.With all these changes my shoulder is feeling great.That bronges me to the following question: since I never experienced any sorenes or discomfort in my shoulder before I introduced a lot of butterfly into my work-outs and it all went away when I cut down on it, could it be that butterfly is what was causing the discomfort.My guess is: either it was too new and came like a shock therapy to my shoulders or I am doing something wrong when swimming it or both... So my next step before I raise my yardage in butterfly again is to strengthen my shoulders with resistance bands for about a month, then consult some coach who would look at my stroke mechanics and only then safely but gradually raise the amount of butterfly per work-out... Sounds like a good plan to me. The most important thing to remember is to never swim through pain. This seems obvious and simple but I have been a victim of the "just another 100 yards" syndrome.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:27:55 GMT

Just a little update on my shoulder soreness that I had about a week ago.I am happy to state that it is almost gone.I did the following: I took two complete days off from swimming, then swam 3 days in a row paying very close attention to my technique, I also cut down on my butterfly for now(about 150m. per work-out only), I started icing up my shoulders right after the work-out and before going to bed.I also ordered therabands which should be coming in a day or two.With all these changes my shoulder is feeling great.That bronges me to the following question: since I never experienced any sorenes or discomfort in my shoulder before I introduced a lot of butterfly into my work-outs and it all went away when I cut down on it, could it be that butterfly is what was causing the discomfort.My guess is: either it was too new and came like a shock therapy to my shoulders or I am doing something wrong when swimming it or both... So my next step before I raise my yardage in butterfly again is to strengthen my shoulders with resistance bands for about a month, then consult some coach who would look at my stroke mechanics and only then safely but gradually raise the amount of butterfly per work-out...

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:48:35 GMT

Originally posted by 330man This is where you went wrong. If it were really that simple we would not need doctors to diagnose our shoulder problems. I have always said don't do home remedys, stretching and yes there are clubs that have their swimmers doing these pretzel stretches, duck walking before they swim, these are the guys who have rotator cuff problems. If you have read any of my other posts I have said to see a doctor. However all doctors don't have the right answer. I would always get a second and maybe a third opinion. That is the reason I went to a doctor in Egypt who had experiance with 100's of marathon swimmers. Just as an after thought it was a Doctor who wanted me to take steroids. George

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:38:42 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck The only swimmers who have have rotator cuff troubles are stretching before and after they swim. George This is where you went wrong. If it were really that simple we would not need doctors to diagnose our shoulder problems.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:35:09 GMT

Originally posted by gull80 I take it you're an orthopedist specializing in sports medicine. I be interested in hearing about some of your experiences dealing with shoulder injuries, tendinitis, impingement, etc. No but my orthopedist told me this, he also told me not to swim any more but that if I was going to swim I had to change the way I swam, which I did. If you read the post I did say "as far as I am concerned". George

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:35:07 GMT

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming I was just wondering if anyone could suggest on when to do rotator cuff exercises.Do you need to do them right after the work-out or not? I understand it is good to ice up the shoulder after the work-out...So when do you do the exercises?Do muscles need to be warmed up? Thanks... Never, as far as I am concerned. The only swimmers who have have rotator cuff troubles are stretching before and after they swim. If you are in trouble modify the stroke so it doesn't hurt George

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:23:51 GMT

I was just wondering if anyone could suggest on when to do rotator cuff exercises.Do you need to do them right after the work-out or not? I understand it is good to ice up the shoulder after the work-out...So when do you do the exercises?Do muscles need to be warmed up? Thanks...

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:58:47 GMT

Originally posted by geochuck Never, as far as I am concerned. The only swimmers who have have rotator cuff troubles are stretching before and after they swim. If you are in trouble modify the stroke so it doesn't hurt I take it you're an orthopedist specializing in sports medicine. I be interested in hearing about some of your experiences dealing with shoulder injuries, tendinitis, impingement, etc.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:34:41 GMT

Never do the exercises before you swim. I would suggest doing them in the evening before you crash for the night. I have been bad about my exercises recently. It seemed the more I did them the more my shoulder would bother me. I am now swimming about 5 times/week and do my exercises about once a week. My shoulders are getting much stronger just from swimming. I should note that doing the exercises once a week affords me the opportunity to test my cuff muscle strength. Each time I do them I can do more with less fatigue. As long as that weekly exercise routine continues to show improvment I will maintain my current schedule.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:53:25 GMT

Having returned to swimming after a hiatus of 35 plus years, and having only two weeks of "practice", I did something dumb, but without much damage. I entered a 50 meter fly race. I was okay going, but on the way back I lost form pretty fast. Anyway, I had shoulder disconfort, on both shoulders for about two weeks. That was just a normal physiological response to oversuse. Just tender muscles and tendons, no long term twists or tears. Yesterday I did a 1,000 meter warm-up, and continued with several speed drills (freestyle) the coach had us do. Today my shoulder is fine, with a extremely slight (oxymoron?) tenderness. The way I figure with these slight tendon lesions is that you practically have to work through them and it takes time (up to three months or more) and patience. You can't overdo it, but you can't not do anything. I am talking with the perspective of a club tennis player (myself) who had a forearm towards the elbow tendinitis and after years of dealing with it, I finally came to the conclusion that I had to live with it, change a little my backswing, play less times a week, and ease off the power on my server. I now have no problem in that area. I am presently refraining from swimming butterfly till the second semester. However I am not blaming the fly for my shoulder tenderness, I blame it on my motorcycle fall. I just don't want to make it worse.Take care, billy fanstone.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2005 06:18:07 GMT

Actually talking about shoulder pain I unfotnunately have to say that I am feeling little soreness in the back of my shoulder, right at the tip of the back bone.Actually what I am experiencing right now is very slight soreness and only when I touch that part with a finger I feel that.It does not hurt when I swim, it does not hurt at all ever.And that is only in my left shoulder.I wonder if that has to do with me breathing to the right only in freestyle or, which I think is the cause - I started doing a lot of butterfly about a month ago... I know that there are a lot of people here who experienced some shoulder problems.I was wondering if what I am experiencing right now could be a tip of the iceburg of the problem that could be coming if I do not take some measures.I was wondering if I should cut down on butterfly(though I always swim it fresh and not tired and only with a good technique), if I should start doing specific exercises for shoulders and maybe stretches.And finally - can I avoid a serious injury with exercises and other preventive measures? Thanks a lot...

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 16:42:22 GMT

The main reasons to see an orthopod are 1) to exclude a rotator cuff or labrum tear and 2) to get a physical therapy referral so that a rehab program can be designed specifically for you. As for your swimming workouts, why not just swim sets of 50s and 100s until your shoulder heals? For longer distances, you could try swimming at an aerobic pace with a pull buoy (no paddles) or fins. And I would agree that you should avoid butterfly for now. Use ice after workouts and at bedtime, and some type of NSAID (I like Aleve) as needed. You might also consider Glucosamine, although you won't notice a benefit for the first few months.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:20:08 GMT

I had frayed the tendons in both shoulders, before you work to hard and cause major damage have a look at this article www.hughston.com/.../a.cuff.htm My orthopedic surgeon told me not to swim in a race, I did swim regardless of what he told me and I thought I was finished until an Egyptian doctor fixed me up. George www.swimdownhill.com

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:00:30 GMT

hey Billy Fanstone, since you're swimming against all advice to the contrary, see what benefit you can get from swimming with closed fists, lightly closed fists. Take it easy. As for butterfly, try closed fists, along with your over-the-water recovery having your hands nearly touching your ears as they go forward over the water, instead of approaching the lane lines. Go easy, as you would if you were learning to walk again. Obviously, you can be trusted to know the beneficials, once you try them.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:17:52 GMT

Thank you. billy fanstone

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:12:30 GMT

There have been a number of threads related to this subject--you might try searching the forum using shoulder or rotator cuff as the key word. The USA Swimming website has a section on sports medicine. Below is a link to an article about rotator cuff exercises: www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:22:07 GMT

might want to lay off the butterfly for awhile. I've had 6 shoulder surgeries and the doctors are quite happy that I never did butterfly and had no desire to learn post-op. Since you've got access to orthopods--you might want to see one. Treating yourself isn't going to work well. You may want a workup on what is wrong. While you don't really need your shoulders in your line of medicine--you won't find it easy to position a patient if your shoulders are hurting. And your activity of choice is swimming -- continuing to beat up on your shoulders may only lead to larger problems down the road.

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:20:40 GMT

Waiting to perform your recovery apparently has a wringing out effect on your supraspinatus tendon/muscle. A hip level recovery would be preffered. I don't think a little fly is bad provided it causes no pain. I think fly would be something you would want to avoid though because it is going to wear your shoulders more than free and reduce the amount of time you can spend swimming. Whatever stroke you choose, do not swim to the point where your technique falls to pieces; assuming of course that your technique is correct in the first place. Swimming when your muscles are fatigued and your form falls part will only lead to further damage to your already sensitive shoulders. Spend more time kicking or doing body dolphins. These activities get you in the water, increase or maintain your aerobic threshold, and help your shoulders heal by letting them rest and by increasing bloodflow. As for feeling numb, I never feel numb while swimming but I do occasionally wake up with numb hands and wrists ever since my shoulder injury (I USED to stretch via arm swinging).

RE: Shoulder pain:

Former Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 13:53:13 GMT

Okay, I read all the material in the forum related to rotator cuff and other shoulder injuries. I believe my injury was from the falling off the dirt bike onto my shoulder, but that it was aggravated by my swimming. Here are a couple of questions: should I refrain from all fly swimming and for how long? Should I start recovery for freestyle at hip level and not thigh level? Finally, does anyone have any suggestions as to feeling numb (paresthesia) on both arms when swimming longer distances (800 meters) at a faster pace? About the orthopod stuff, don't worry, I myself am a M.D. (anesthesiologist) and have access to doctors and such, but I like to hear it from the swimming community, much like I use to rely on running forums to get information when I was into running. Thanks again, billy fanstone.