200 IM and 400 IM

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:50:46 GMT

This thread has some good pointers ... whoever said it was a 50 sprint of each stroke was nuts. I had no legs swimming it that way and I think am in pretty good shape and well conditioned. If you kick too much on fly and back and are under too long it becomes detrimental. I had a coach tell me to breathe A LOT on the fly. Build the back and go like gang busters on the *** and free. I found if I keep my fly smoothe, and build the back I'm in good shape. My legs were burning on the last 25 but it was the last 25 of a very long meet and I was able to keep pushing, wouldn't have been if it was the first 25 of ***. I think 2 or 3 under water kicks on back and fly will be more than sufficient. And on ***, do what your lungs can handle. On free give it what ever is left .... Good luck, I'll be swimming it at state, too. Though very slowly. Look at all of Ande's advice, he's a phenomenal 200 IM swimmer ...

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:50:20 GMT

I signed up to do a 200 IM at the Illinis state meet. I haven't swam it in a long time. I've been doing Mel's workout on this site. they've helped me with the event so far. It just burns my old asthmatic lungs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My biggest problem is knowing when to stop kicking underwater during the transitions. On a 100 IM, I start with 12 underwater kick for fly. What about 200IM? Should ther be fewer? and the same with ***?

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:33:47 GMT

Swam the 200 IM again last weekend and had a much better race. I took the fly out a lot easier than I did a month ago, and what do you know I actually had energy still in breaststroke. My legs were burning on the free but I was still able to pick it up. It was a great race, still not fast (or anywhere near fast), but dramactically improved for me ... a 17 second drop. A couple more meets with 17 second drops and it'll be fast. ha I love this race now, it's one of my favorites. It's still that dang breaststroke leg that kills me. I was ahead of the girl in the lane next to me until that leg and couldn't catch her on the free leg, though I made a valiant effort.

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

ande — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:31:23 GMT

shucks there's plenty of people way better than me I swim another 200 IM in 20 days When I sat there and played with splits on paper It all seemed easy and doable. BUT I forgot about the AGONY FACTOR I didn't take it easy on the fly and the back I kicked too much and swam too hard on the back stroke. I didn't have much left for the *** and the free. I hope to swim a smarter race and be much faster on the *** and free We'll see. Ande Originally posted by SwiminONandON This thread has some good pointers ... whoever said it was a 50 sprint of each stroke was nuts. I had no legs swimming it that way and I think am in pretty good shape and well conditioned. If you kick too much on fly and back and are under too long it becomes detrimental. I had a coach tell me to breathe A LOT on the fly. Build the back and go like gang busters on the *** and free. I found if I keep my fly smoothe, and build the back I'm in good shape. My legs were burning on the last 25 but it was the last 25 of a very long meet and I was able to keep pushing, wouldn't have been if it was the first 25 of ***. I think 2 or 3 under water kicks on back and fly will be more than sufficient. And on ***, do what your lungs can handle. On free give it what ever is left .... Good luck, I'll be swimming it at state, too. Though very slowly. Look at all of Ande's advice, he's a phenomenal 200 IM swimmer ...

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:12:05 GMT

I will give my 2 cents worth on the 200 IM only (which probably isn't actually worth the entire 2 cents though).....I am skipping out on the 400 IM this season (not in good enough shape for that one yet....and maybe not in good enough shape for the 200 yet either....I will find out soon enough though)........ I believe IMHO (who am I kidding with the "humble" opinion stuff anyway??) that the primary keys to a successful IM are: (Listed in both a priority type order as well as a "somewhat" chronological order in fact): 1) Getiing out fast enough (but "relaxed enough") on fly and backstroke BUT still somehow saving enough for the back end (i.e. the *** and free).....Here you need really good smooth stroke mechanics (with a great start and turns as well).....also need good rythmic breathing to stay relaxed here! 2) Great Starts and turns (especially the "transition" turns).....I am still looking for the right back to *** turn for me (something I can actually learn to do efficiently enough by Nationals though)??....Streamlining...Streamlining...Streamlining!! (off all turns for maximum distance underwater!).....Also get in and out of each turn very quickly...(staying tight and compact through the actual "turning" parts) 3) Strong Breaststroke Leg: If #1 above is successful enough, you should be able to have a strong breaststroke leg (and still be out fast at the 100 mark).....Wayne McCauley's Website on *** Stroke sounds like an excellent place to start for improving my breaststroke!!...(get plenty of "underwater glide" out of each stroke here!) 4) Strong kick on final freestyle leg....with a strong finish into the wall.....Here's where the training and endurance either pays off (or the lack thereof shows up!). Frankly I'm a little skeptical about my chances of pulling this one off this season??.....I do, however, still have about 8 weeks before Nationals....I better make them very "meaningful" (especially when it comes to #3 and #4 above!!) Newmastersswimmer

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Karen Duggan — Tue, 15 Mar 2005 06:09:13 GMT

Perhaps I will buy a lottery ticket. :) I haven't been "surfing" much around here as we are doing "March Madness" in Walnut Creek. We are contesting who can do the most yards in March. I'll let you know how I did on April 1st :) I must say the blarney is flying. Nobody will say how much they've done, but they will severely underestimate their current yardage, leaving others to ridicule them as bad liars!!! Off to the pool... :)

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

TRYM_Swimmer — Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:28:13 GMT

Note to non-breaststrokers: You were born too late! Before they were separate events, one could swim butterfly or breastroke as the first leg of the 150 IM. (See article in new USMS magazine this month.) As a breaststroker, I never liked that event much! (Only swam it several times for an old perpetual trophy at York PA YMCA.) Now IM for me is pretty fast fly, so my hips don't sag, keep a good rhythm and pressure in the back (my worst stroke) and then *** leg depends on what's left at that point. Being more of a distance breaststroker, I can cruise on that leg to catch my breath and still maintain position (or sometimes catchup) with a long smooth stroke. Then, of course, the free is all out. (As all out as a non-sprinter can go and still keep a decent stroke.) Greetings to all my old Masters friends I haven't seen for years! Susi and I are back into it with a new, small team in Eastern NC. Hope to see you at a Nationals soon!

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:50:24 GMT

Originally posted by jbroadri 5:18. You are at least as good as Ms. Cleo! ;) Hey Karen, have any lottery numbers for us?;)

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:37:16 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan Enter 5:20 and I bet you'll go about 5:16-5:17. Let me know if I should quit my day job and venture into the psychic realm!:p 5:18. You are at least as good as Ms. Cleo! ;)

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:51:20 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan Enter 5:20 and I bet you'll go about 5:16-5:17. Let me know if I should quit my day job and venture into the psychic realm!:p Meet is 3/12. I'll let you know. I think given my endurance (or lack thereof) Its more likely I'll go 5:30, so I'm using 5:30 seed. There will probably only be one heet anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:33:58 GMT

Last saturday, I was at a meet. they had only one guy do the 400 IM. I loved it but now where I swim the air & water are too hot & I start to wheeze when I try to do it.

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Karen Duggan — Wed, 16 Feb 2005 03:24:25 GMT

Enter 5:20 and I bet you'll go about 5:16-5:17. Let me know if I should quit my day job and venture into the psychic realm!:p

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:12:59 GMT

I'm doing a 400 IM for the first time in my life and I need to figure out a seed time. I can do a 100 IM in 1:07, a 200 IM in about 2:30 and was thinking that 5:30 would probably be about right, but I am a little afraid I'll die and end up with more like 6:00. Any suggestions? My race strategy will be: 1. try to relax on the fly. I usually die after 50 fly, so this will be hard. my 100 fly time alone is about 1:15 2. Pace the backstroke. My back is pretty good, so I need to recover from O2 debt in the first 50 and then push the 2nd 50. 100 back is about 1:07. 3. Work *** as best I can. I suck at this stroke, which is why I feel I have to push it hard. (1:22) 4. Finish the 100 free without totally falling apart. (:58) Is that a decent strategy? It looks similar to the one above, but I wasn't sure if that was serious or a joke. If I perform at my individual race best times I'd get 4:42. Accounting for the distance/dying etc. I think 5:30 is probably reasonable, I'm just looking for some guidance from those in the know.

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Karen Duggan — Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:22:36 GMT

Mark, you are as smart as I think you are! :p

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

mattson — Fri, 11 Feb 2005 06:31:11 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan I always cruise the fly and negative split the rest of the race. Karen, I hope you mean negative split by 100, otherwise that is an amazing breaststroke you have! :)

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

ande — Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:43:11 GMT

200 IM? get a great start, go fast and relaxed in the fly save your legs a little breathe legal turns do a fast fly to back turn stay fast and relaxed on back, breathe a lot, it's gonna start to burn a little do a fast back to *** turn do a full underwater pull out, work the *** stroke, be efficient the burn is increasing do a fast *** to free turn six beat kick the whole way and swim as fast as you can and bring it home it should burn pretty bad get a great touch, get your hand on the wall. most importantly do the training to be well prepared for this event 400 IM be long and relaxed save your legs in fly and back breathe a lot if you take it out too hard you'll be hurting in the *** and free work the *** do full underwater pull outs bring the free home as best you can. Originally posted by SwiminONandON my question is what exactly should my race strategy be on a 200 IM? A 400 IM? Thanks!

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:52:30 GMT

Originally posted by Peter Cruise 1. I try to survive the fly 2. I rest up on the back 3. I go like stink on the *** 4. I hang on during the free Since my backstroke is my strong strong I can't rest. I need take advantage of that stroke knowing that the nightmare stroke is coming. This stratgy does work for me. I had someone joke with her husband that I beat him on the backstroke.

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Karen Duggan — Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:47:22 GMT

I always cruise the fly and negative split the rest of the race. That works for me. I've tried it many different ways. I've taken the fly out in 1:03, did well in the middle 200 and died in the free, like I always do. It's the bane of my existence! With your great free, you'll do well in the IM's. I've always enjoyed the 400 because it's like an obstacle course-and the lead frequently changes :) (except when Nadine is swimming!). Have fun :)

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:37:22 GMT

Originally posted by Peter Cruise 1. I try to survive the fly 2. I rest up on the back 3. I go like stink on the *** 4. I hang on during the free That resembles my strategy. Back is my weakest stroke, and after fly it is delightful to rest on the backstroke. However, I have found that if I am too restful on the backstroke I will swim a poor time, whereas if I swim the backstroke with a bit of gusto I will have a good IM. For me, the backstroke leg seems to be the key even if I do pretty much stink at it. *** and fly are probably my strong points.

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:17:31 GMT

1. I try to survive the fly 2. I rest up on the back 3. I go like stink on the *** 4. I hang on during the free

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

swimr4life — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:57:02 GMT

Thanks for the chuckle...I had the same thought!;)

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:17:00 GMT

Thanks all! I am a good freestyler. I have a pretty good fly (when I think head, butt, head, butt) and a good backstroke (when I want to). My breaststroke is definitely my weak leg. I finally figured out how to swim it technically well. I get the water jet feeling in my legs and all (despite my sometimes less than perfect kick) but it is slower than dirt. I'm hoping that at a longer distance (the 200 and 400) that I'll be able to get ahead in the fly and back not let everyone totally kill me in the *** and catch anyone in the free. That is my plan at least ... it probably won't work out that way, but oh well ... I do a LOT of IM in practice. I had a set of 1400 yards all IM a couple of weeks ago. The last 400 IM in that set was less than pretty- well the fly was less than pretty, the back was restful and the last 200 was on "cruise". Thanks for all the good advice!

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

AnnG — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 02:30:51 GMT

Heather, I too am enjoying training for 400 IM, I am doing a LOT of breaststroke as this is a very important leg in any medley and probably my weakest stroke. Since I learned how to swim *** many years ago I have an old fashioned stroke and I am trying very hard to improve my timing and change my pull to the new way. Also doing a lot of hard 400's and 200's and broken IM's at those distances. Remember in order to swim fast you have to practice swimming fast! As for race strategy, the 200 IM is a sprint, 4x50's, plain and simple. I am working on the 400 and I try to build up to the breaststroke leg then sprint from there to the (sometimes bitter) end. Have fun with it!

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:55:34 GMT

Originally posted by etrain We have a few swimmers that prefer to have the lights off when they swim breaststroke. And sometimes I wish the lights were off when they do breaststroke. etrain There's a totally sophmoric joke in there but I will try to act mature. :D

RE: 200 IM and 400 IM

Former Member — Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:37:26 GMT