Swimming to lose weight?

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2005 14:09:19 GMT

Kae, Wow! That is really interesting (no sarcasm intended!)... makes my academic work sound dull (which it is...) A food history society? Only in America! But it is an interesting topic and a valuable one, also... Enjoy your trip... peace, e.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:47:18 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan Kae, That is so cool. What are you working on? Hopefully, this won't bore the others here too much... I'm currently a "bureaucratic" archaeologist - I work for the Arizona Department of Transportation, reviewing projects and such for compliance with state and federal historic preservation laws. I get a little bit of everything with that, though I don't actually do the research and excavations any longer (now, it's all legal review and coordination with other agencies). I'm also a member of a food history society, though most of their research is focused on early American food, and I'm more interested in European foods from the Bronze Age to the Renaissance. I'm part of a medieval living history group and do a lot of food research for that. It's fun - keeps me out of trouble. Next week I won't be at the pool because I'll be out in the desert escaping the modern world with the rest of my medieval friends. Kae

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:30:26 GMT

Originally posted by Karen Duggan Wow Mr. Thornton, I'm impressed. Well said! As part of the 6th grade curriculum in CA, we teach early human history. I think I can safely say that a radioactive squirrel may look more tasty than some of the stuff our progenitors were eating! As an archaeologist and food historian, I take exception to that. There is no way radioactive squirrel would be tastier than most of what our progentors ate! Some hunter-gatherers ate quite well, thank you :D . And before anyone starts on the cave-man diet thing (I have a friend who shared a book on the subject with me) - there's almost no evidence that prehistoric humans consumed mostly meat products. It's far more likely that they subsisted on gathered wild foodstuffs supplemented by small game and fish. Kae

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:49:29 GMT

i think it's a shame to see people so heavy. i do believe that you can be relatively heavy and fit, but fit is the operative word here. i have relatives who are absolutely obese and revel in every disease and illness that comes upon them. it's aggravating and pathetic. but i also realise that these individuals are self-medicating with food (I'm sorry- anyone who is grossly obese has some issues to contend with- as we all do) and making everyone else pay by helping to drive up the cost of health insurance. having said that, i used to be very thin, gained a lot of weight before losing it, so while i understand that it is difficult to lose the weight, it can be done, but takes a lot of hard work and discipline... most people can't be bothered to make the effort IMHO. american culture is dedicated to comfort at all costs, and obesity is perhaps one of the ill effects of the relentless pursuit of convenience. just thought i would spin that karmic wheel and throw some (more) negative energy back into the cosmic soup :p

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Karen Duggan — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 11:28:35 GMT

Kae, That is so cool. What are you working on?

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

dorothyrde — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:22:10 GMT

You know, thin is not necessarily an indication of healthy. I know a lot of people who are and were thinner than me at my heaviest, who I was much fitter and healthier than.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Karen Duggan — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:19:53 GMT

Wow Mr. Thornton, I'm impressed. Well said! As part of the 6th grade curriculum in CA, we teach early human history. I think I can safely say that a radioactive squirrel may look more tasty than some of the stuff our progenitors were eating! By the way, would the radioactive squirrel be thin or fat? And your thought about the bomb, squirrels, overweight people surviving... this reminds me of a 24 Hour Fitness billboard that was all the hot topic of discussion for awhile in San Francisco. It read, "When the aliens land they'll eat the fat ones first!" Living in liberal, politically correct CA, 24 Hour Fitness certainly got their moneys worth in negative publicity, upsetting people and thus being on the news... I, myself, thought it was kind of humerous :)

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:50:22 GMT

Originally posted by jim thornton If Iran gets the bomb and we're someday teleported back to the hardscrabble existence of our ancient progenitors, all of us running around like maniacs in pursuit of non-radioactive squirrels to eat, I think today's overweight people will have the last laugh. Non-radioactive squirrels, Jim? Really? That's creative, even for you. :p

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:42:12 GMT

I was a skinny kid, a skinny teenager and a skinny young adult-and I was SO self-righteous about it. People who were fat were lazy and irresponsible and I felt so superior to them. Then one day-I turned 35 and seemingly overnight I could no longer eat whatever I wanted and stay slim. I gained about 30 pounds in 5 years before I decided to stop whining about it and do something about it. I've lost about 20 of those pounds now, swimming, jogging, lifting weights and monitoring portion sizes. If you believe in Karma, you could say that I bought my weight gain with my self-righteous attitude as a young person. To be honest,it would serve me right if I had. So I leave you all with the warning. This could happen to you-just imagine, an insensitive remark made about an overweight person and the next thing you know-BAM-30 extra pounds!! Not a risk I'm ever going to take again!!

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:54:30 GMT

Dear Fetch: The secrets to loose weight swimming: a) Swim gently, maintain your heart rate below 125 that's about 19 to 21 in 10 seconds b) You need to last minumum 40 minutes, but it is not necessary to go over 90 minutes c) Approximately 3 to 4 weeks of 3 to 6 times per week into your routine, start doing workouts that you will find in this same site, I post Why Swim, If You Can Fly?! Swimcerely, Coach RS

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

dorothyrde — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:55:09 GMT

Body fat % and BMI are two different things. When I got measured last year for bodyfat, it was 21% and BMI was 26. BF was in normal range, BMI was considered overweight. BMI is purely a calculation of how tall you are and how much you weigh. Muscle and bone density are not taken into account. As far as exercise, I throw a little bit of everything in the pot. The pool is not always the most convenient form of exercise so I run with the dog, lift weights at home, have step video tapes, use the exercise room while my daughter has swim practice. To lose weight, you have to make it a priority to exercise, and a priority to eat right. I have seen the girls on my kids swim team hit puberty and get heavy. In general, it is because they eat badly. A great many kids these days eat very badly. You can get the junk out of the house, but at school they are served school lunches swimming in grease, have pop machines and candy machines assessable as yound as 3rd grade.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

dorothyrde — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:07:11 GMT

Yes Diet Coke makes it OK :) and desert eaten first does not count! Having been dieting since I was my daughter's age, I was always envious of the skinny girls who never had to watch what they ate. But now I see how hard it is for someone who never had to be disciplined on their diet, aquire some of the habits that are needed to maintain a healthy weight. Jim quite a post, I knew my hips were there for a reason, radiactive squirrels, yum...

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:01:05 GMT

Alas, Aquageek, maybe you aren't as pessimistic as you think..... Now, you have a distinguishing comparison to people that we are all referring to, as opposed to people who are not concerned with their health. Preachin' to the choir, sugar. We were never advocating habits like that, and it's good that you saw that, as you can now appreciate all the lovely ladies on here (and gentlemen too, I guess), for all our beauty and self-motivation. :D

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

knelson — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 08:40:46 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek Mid afternoon I watched them consume two hot dogs, all the way, a gigantic bag of popcorn, a gallon size bag of halloween type candy bars and 2 liters of Diet-Coke. Hey, cut them some slack. At least they were drinking Diet Coke! :D

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

jim thornton — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 06:14:57 GMT

A bit of kerosene to the fire: 1) On average, the weight women tend to put on--so-called stabile fat that accumulates in the hips and thighs--is notoriously resistant to dieting and exercise. One researcher suggested to me that the only good way to get rid of this is to A) be starving and B) breastfeeding at the same time. Sorry to report this, but evolution appears to have programmed a certain fat-retaining stubborness in many females' physiology that serves a reproductive purpose. Back in antiquity, when vast quantities of savory food were not easily obtainable, and when starvation WAS a real threat, such women were arguably much better off than the rare Twiggy genotypes so lionized today. On the plus side, stabile fat does not seem to be nearly as much a health risk, at least for the cardiovascular system, as the "labile" kind described in item #2. 2) On average, the weight men tend to accumulate--so-called labile fat that accumulates inside the abdominal wall--is much easier to shed with exercise. But because of its proximity to the portal vein (among other things), this can enter the blood stream much more readily and is consequently much more dangerous to the heart (increased plaque formation, etc.) Males have the advantage of being able to work off their excess weight by diet and especially exercise, but they still get felled by the Grim Reaper at much younger ages, on average, than women. John Gray said Men and from Mars, Women from Venus; perhaps a better way of looking at the genders (again, on a statistical average basis) is that Men are Apples and Women are Pears, with the latter type of tubbyhood being generally accepted as the much healthier physique. 3) An editorial in one of the leading medical journals a few years back (pretty sure it was JAMA) concluded that while being overweight is linked to a host of specific disorders, from heart disease to diabetes to arthritis (hard to carry around excessive weight and not hurt your joints), the subset of overweight people who don't have these diseases are no less healthy than normal weight people. More importantly, there has not been much, if any, data to show that losing weight makes you healthier, despite the overwhelmingly "intuitively obvious" supposition this would, in fact, be the case. In other words, a formerly obese person who has starved himself or herself into a normal BMI may not have done themselves any good. (Histological slides of such individuals post-wt. loss are actually impossible to distinguish from slides of "normal" people in the throes of real starvation.) Stephen Blair at the Cooper Center for Aerobic Fitness in Dallas is an extremely fit but overweight guy who has authored numerous papers on the distinction between fit and fat. His data has shown time and again that overweight but otherwise fit individuals are much healthier than normal weight or even thin but non-fit people. Final point: notwithstanding the counterexample of those 250-lb. parents engorging themselves in the stands of the swimming meet, the data shows that the thinnest people actually tend to eat the most food. To me, weight regulation is among the most complex aspects of human physiology, with a host of poorly understood compounds from leptin to neuropeptide Y that conspire to make many of us find A) delicious food (especially fat and sugar combos) extremely difficult to resist and B) exercise all too easy to avoid. Many of our prehomind ancestors eons ago survived simply because their genes inspired them to eat as much as humanly possible during those rare times of plenty, then take a long nap. In our supersize me era, where food requires no exercise to obtain and is plentiful and cheap, who amongst us is entirely deaf to the genetic puppetmasters within us, puppetmasters whose foremost fear--despite all evidence--remains starvation? The discussion of weight should, in my mind, have ABSOLUTELY NO MORAL COMPONENT--beyond, perhaps, some censure for the shameful behavior of candy and fast food makers who, knowingly or not, prey upon and profit from our once adapative genes. It is not a character issue but a biochemical one, a bedevilingly complicated one at that. If Iran gets the bomb and we're someday teleported back to the hardscrabble existence of our ancient progenitors, all of us running around like maniacs in pursuit of non-radioactive squirrels to eat, I think today's overweight people will have the last laugh.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

dorothyrde — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 05:31:59 GMT

Yes, and what a difference this couple is, sedentary, eating badly, probably not a bit of muscles is to the size 14 196 pound swimmer who is 5-10 and while overweight, still greatly better off and in much better shape. When I was fit and fat at 180, you would not have found me eating crap at a swim meet. I always brought fruits and veggies for myself and the kids to munch on. And my kids are thin....

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

aquageek — Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:52:36 GMT

So here I was, trying to be more sympathetic to the plight of those with weight issues. Folks on this forum were helping me. Then, yesterday, I witnessed what can only be described as a full-on fat assualt and, regrettably, I'm back to my old pessimistic self. I was at my daughter's swim meet and this couple in front of me was quite large (250+ each). That, in itself, is no big deal these days. However, in the course of a 2.5 hour swim meet I witnessed the most unabashed display of horrific eating. Mid afternoon I watched them consume two hot dogs, all the way, a gigantic bag of popcorn, a gallon size bag of halloween type candy bars and 2 liters of Diet-Coke. It was unbelievable, I felt like I was on some show and was being filmed to see how much I could take without cracking. Care to guess their kid's size? HUGE also, very sad. Anyway, instead of watching their children, going to workout out in the building, these two consumed 10 pounds of crap while reading romance novels. Everyone on this forum, if you are swimming and losing weight, congrats because I saw the dark (chocolate) side and no one should consume like that.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Karen Duggan — Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:38:23 GMT

Hi- Growing up an age-group swimmer and logging up to 10,000m/day, I still gained weight when puberty hit. I was VERY strong in my arms, legs, and abs but it was my awful diet. I didn't eat a lot, it was just crap,and I didn't drink enough water. Now as a masters swimmer, something weird has happened. I did the Feb Fitness Challenge 2 years ago, swam about 6,000y/day on average and lost 15 pounds in February! I kept it off until I got pregnant with number 3! In my experience swimming can help to lose weight. However, I have found swimming and running to be an amazing combination for losing a lot of weight. As far as the BMI and athletes being "different" I never understood that statement. Yes, swimmers probably have a lot more muscle, but if your body fat is 28%, it will be no matter how much muscle you have, it's still not healthy. I think that's what they mean about the NFL lineman?

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Sat, 05 Feb 2005 06:11:56 GMT

The posters (aquageek et al.) who are taking a tough stand on obesity in America are aiming their remarks at the wrong audience. Those of us who read this board are swimming! we are exercising! And we still are not thin! or even normal BMI... and I doubt we are all eating bags of potato chips after each workout. Have a bit of empathy there -- For sure this society does have a problem with obesity; this is linked to all of the factors pointed out above; but it is not fair and quite unkind to jump from those facts, to individual judgements. It could be argued that those of us with heavier bones (mine verified by the bone density scan that I had when I 'reached a certain age') ; who run to heavier muscles; and who spend a good deal of time in the gym or pool have more not less discipline that those for whom a slim figure comes easily. I am off to the pool.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:53:34 GMT

Originally posted by aquageek Devil's advocate here - if everyone thinks they are a better judge of height and weight based on dress size, bone size, exercise time, etc, why would we have the BMI in the first place? Maybe instead of everyone going out of their way to explain excessive weight, maybe folks should lose the weight. Geek, I think the reason some on this board are so angry with you, is that you make it sound like being heavy is someone wearing a pink sweater with green pants. They know the sweater's bad with the pants, so for crying out loud, go change! It's really not that simple, darlin'. There are a ton of factors in today's culture that make it harder, even if it was just as easy as "stop eating, walk more." Cars, computers, microwaves, fast food, career moms, technology, genetics....there are a million reasons we're heavier than our grandparents were. In a fair example, you try fixing yogurt and oatmeal for breakfast when it's 6:30, you have yourself, three kids, one bathroom, and you have to have them all to two different schools by 7 so you can get to the office by 7:15. Breakfast doesn't happen. Then, you get to work, and in the breakroom, there's a nice box of donuts, or muffins, or whatever, and your poor tummy thinks, well, just one. Personally, I think it's nice that society has warmed up a little to the plight of heavy people. Do you really think it's encouraging people to be fat by opening a clothing store? If we took away all the clothes over size 12, people wouldn't get skinny. They'd be naked a lot. Let us worry about our health problems, Geek, and what to do to be healthier. You concentrate on staying away from Shannon and dorothyrde. I think they're mad at you.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:24:30 GMT

I agree with the fact that our society has made it much more acceptable to be obese by catering to heavier people. It isn't healthy to be very overweight...I know I was there. I have to watch what I eat even though I swim every day. Most of all even though I was fit (but FAT) I didn't like how I felt or even looked for that matter. Shouldn't we encourage everyone to a healthier weight instead of making it ok to be heavy. There was an article in shape this month about just that. Women and men are encouraged to be happy with themselves as being overweight and because of that they think that they are ok being heavy---its like one extreme to another--too fat---too skinny---how about just right.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:45:44 GMT

I completely agree with you. It is not easy to loose weight!!! All I know is that even at my heaviest I was in better shape than every member of my team!!! Finding the right combination of things that works for each individual is not easy.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:41:50 GMT

Aquageek- I don't think anyone here is denying that obesity is not a problem. What some of us are trying to state is that you can be overweight or even considered obese and still be fit and healthy. I am sure there are people out there who are in a normal weight range and is not as fit or as healthy as I am. And yes I will take it a little personally whenever someone makes a comment about others needing to just lose weight and stop making excuses.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

Former Member — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:35:32 GMT

Aquageek, I just take offense to how you make comments on our "excuses". There are reasons for some of us to be overweight other then being lazy and unfit. Having children can cause weight gain and can be very hard to lose that weight, too. Some of us come from families that naturally have more fat then others. It is also a proven fact that woman naturally have more fat then men. So your comment on those of us using excuses and just need to lose the weight, I think, is out of line. It is not so easy for everyone to just lose the weight at will. There are many of us here who use swimming to lose weight. I have been working hard to lose weight after having my second child and nearly two years later I have lost 15 lbs. It hasn't been easy. It can also be frustrating when you are working so hard and the pounds just are not coming off. This is especially true when you live with a husband who eats like a pig and hardly does any exercise yet he can still lose weight. My point here is that we don't need you to be critical of those who are overweight. We all have are reasons for being who we are.

RE: Swimming to lose weight?

aquageek — Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:51:37 GMT

I will buy the overweight and fit argument. I will not buy the overweight and healthy argument. I think there are just too many reports that being overweight is not healthy. I am concerned that we are loosening our standards of fitness and weight as the population is getting bigger. It's the old mob mentality. Whatever, I'm going to eat a bag of chips for lunch cause I swam a whole lot this morning.