biggest time accomplishment

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:27:55 GMT

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming I was always wondering how much time you can shave down in like, 1 year .It is very interesting to know some experiences you had, guys - i.e. what is the biggest time improvement you ever had in one year.Any stroke and distance are welcome :-))) The first year I trained as a competitor, I literally worked on nothing but 800m freestyle. I cut my time by about 8 minutes during that first year (which is in some degree a reflection on how lousy my time was to begin with!). My improvements were primarily in stamina. My time for my first lap dropped by less than 10% during that year, but I was able to maintain more of that speed over the 800m. In my experience, it's a lot easier to build stamina than it is to improve sprint speed. Building stamina just takes work. Improving sprint speed takes cleverness (sort of like solving a Rubik's cube).

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:53:59 GMT

Well, since we gently transformed this thread into a "number-of-strokes-per-length" thread, which is perfectly fine, I got to wonder - what would be the PERFECT range of strokes per length.We saw a few replies here where people claim to do 10 strokes or less, but the point is ... at what stage does it become ineffective to look for further decrease in number of strokes, i.e. you just start going slower (gliding a bit two long)though improved on strokes to a very impressive low count.Watching competitive swimmers I did not notice ANY OF THEM doing less than like 27-28 strokes per 50 meters, which is 14 per 25, even the tallest of them like Thorpe.Maybe there is some kind of perfect stage where you want to keep a certain # of strokes, 'cause decreasing them more will slow you down.Do I make any sense?

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:44:01 GMT

Originally posted by newmastersswimmer HMM... 54 + 7 makes 61, that is roughly a 20 yard pool No....it's a 7 "yard" glide Emmett said Not a 7 "foot" glide.....so it's a 21 foot glide....21 + 54 = 75 feet...i.e. 25 yards. newmastersswimmer OOPS...You are right!I should've paid attention.What was I thinking anyway?lol... 7-foot glide... that'd be pretty bad, haha, especially for swimmers doing 8-9 strokes per length Sorry, guys, my bad :-)))

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:25:31 GMT

Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming Well, since we gently transformed this thread into a "number-of-strokes-per-length" thread, which is perfectly fine, I got to wonder - what would be the PERFECT range of strokes per length.We saw a few replies here where people claim to do 10 strokes or less, but the point is ... at what stage does it become ineffective to look for further decrease in number of strokes, i.e. you just start going slower (gliding a bit two long)though improved on strokes to a very impressive low count.Watching competitive swimmers I did not notice ANY OF THEM doing less than like 27-28 strokes per 50 meters, which is 14 per 25, even the tallest of them like Thorpe.Maybe there is some kind of perfect stage where you want to keep a certain # of strokes, 'cause decreasing them more will slow you down.Do I make any sense? 27-28 strokes per 50 mtrs equates to well under 14 per 25 - there is a turn in each 25 that is absent in the middle of a 50mtr length - probably worth 2+ strokes for a 6' swimmer. Also, you didn't see them at moderate or EZ paces where they do fewer strokes than at race paces. I've got an article on my web site "Questionable Stroke Counting" which addresses the oft-asked question of WHY one might choose to train at stroke counts lower than one would use in competitions.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:02:39 GMT

That is when we add the strokes and time for the fifty together and if is above 50 for 50 meters you are not going very fast. George

RE: biggest time accomplishment

ced357 — Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:16:54 GMT

When I was a jr in college I swam the 500 in 5:17.12, 200 in 1:54.24 and 100 in 51.08, then Sr year I dropped to a 4:54.88. in the 500 1:49.32 in the 200 and 49.87 in the 100. It was a very good year.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:40:10 GMT

I do 10 to 11 strokes for 25 meters on a good day, 25 meters 82.5 feet . Arm span is 80 inches and I am almost 6' 2 and a half inches tall bad days do12 to 13 srokes. George

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:24:29 GMT

HMM... 54 + 7 makes 61, that is roughly a 20 yard pool No....it's a 7 "yard" glide Emmett said Not a 7 "foot" glide.....so it's a 21 foot glide....21 + 54 = 75 feet...i.e. 25 yards. newmastersswimmer

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:04:44 GMT

[ So a person with a 6-foot wingspan who gets 7 yards glide off a wall would have 54 feet left to travel in the length and thus a goal of being able to cruise at 9 spl. At that point, depending on how seamless that swim style looks I might encourage an even lower stroke count. HMM... 54 + 7 makes 61, that is roughly a 20 yard pool, 8-9 strokes per that length should not be hard to do.Kari referred to a 25-yard pool and I am used to a 25-meter pool where my best is 13 strokes(6.5 stroke cycles) so far.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:57:42 GMT

Kari, I agree with you on the stroke-couning method, 'cause I do cycles, too and that is so much easier, I think(maybe because you have some time to think about something else rather than number of strokes, lol).Just kidding.But yeah, I was shocked when you said you cover a length in 8 strokes, 8 cycles make more sense.It'd be nice to be able to do just 8 strokes...

RE: biggest time accomplishment

aquageek — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:54:01 GMT

I'll have to get back to you on this. After I don the clown suit and lap gull80 in the 500 I'll be in a better position to report my time.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

mattson — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:26:32 GMT

Biggest time drop was first year of high school swimming. I'd been age group swimming since 6, but that was the first time I'd done serious weight lifting/dryland exercises/high yardage/technique work. Improved my 500 time by 30 seconds before the first meet, during a practice. Ended up dropping another 30 seconds by the sectional meet. For Masters, my 1650 time has improved by 30 seconds each year for the last 4 years, and could possibly drop another 30 sec this coming year.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:20:41 GMT

Yes, you can stay on your back when you push off the wall - when I do a freestyle flipturn I flip over and push off on my back and twist onto my stomach as I'm gliding. I find this to be much faster than trying to twist onto my stomach right off the wall (so that I'm pushing off on my stomach). Does that make sense? What has also helped me decrease my stroke cycles per length is better flip turns. Mine aren't great but they've gotten better; squats at the gym help.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:15:15 GMT

No, not at all - no offense taken! I guess I should have made myself more clear in the first place as I count cycles rather than actual strokes, but then Emmett shows up and says that he actually has people who can swim 8 or 9 strokes, not stroke rotations! Which is completely impressive to me; it is a real struggle to keep your form together and stroke count low and work at 80-90%! Anyway, it's all good. When I was a kid the YMCA swim lesson lady took one look at me and said, "my, what long arms you have. You look like an ape." I was kind of offended but little did I know how much my "ape" arms would help me out down the line!

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:12:56 GMT

So a person with a 6-foot wingspan who gets 7 yards glide off a wall would have 54 feet left to travel in the length and thus a goal of being able to cruise at 9 spl. Unfortunately, my wingspan is not very wide...(at least I don't think it is??)...I stand around 5'11'' and I have a medium to small frame....my arms come down a little below my waist in a resting standing position....so I'm guessing that my wingspan is below 6 ft. I think it's great that you guys are getting such good results though!....I can get around 10 strokes per length when I'm pulling with hand paddles (and there again, I am really concentrating on DPS). I also try to glide as far as I can off of every turn to minimize the amount of strokes I have to do per length....I think I am getting around 7 yards glide off of every turn since I believe I am traveling a little more than a quarter of the way down the pool off of each turn....it's something I have really focused on lately....I can get farther on Butterfly and Backstroke turns then on freestyle turns though...(and obviously on breastroke turns as well).....I'm not sure why??...I seem to recall that I had been told somewhere down the line that you can stay on your back for a little while after the turn on a freestyle turn and then roll over onto your frontside after most of the glide....Is that true?...and do you think that is advantageous? newmastersswimmer

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:59:26 GMT

Regarding the misunderstanding about strokes per length: Sorry if any of my posts may have upset you??.....Like I said, I was impressed and jealous that's all .....(I even said that you may have meant stroke cycles instead of strokes when I responded to another persons response about it)......I think that when you said 8 strokes per length it just "grabbed our attention" b/c we can't do that (yet??)....you know it just sounded unusual to us....but as Emmit said, he has lots of swimmers who go close to that....I personally wouldn't mind decreasing my strokes (and stroke cycles) down for obvious reasons. newmastersswimmer

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:42:19 GMT

"I can't imagine any speed could be generated by 8 strokes per lap. That's a lot of gliding and reduced turnover." Well, my times have dropped, and so has my stroke count. But for me it is currently a constant "battle" of figuring out how to keep my stroke count down while dropping my times, especially on those long, long distances.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:21:46 GMT

Originally posted by emmett In my program we focus a lot on juggling DPS and turnover rate. I've got a number of people capable of cruising in the 8 to 9 strokes per length area. That's strokes, not stroke cycles.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:01:38 GMT

Originally posted by newmastersswimmer My freestyle stroke count is around 10 to 12 strokes per 25 yards (so 5 to 6 stroke cycles per 25 yards) WHEN I am at "cruising" speed (as opposed to full blown out race speed) ...and then I am really stretching my stroke out and trying to get as much distance per stroke as I can.....I have never heard of anyone who could average 8 strokes per 25.....But I'm not saying it's impossible by any means....Maybe that person is some kind of distance swimmer that has naturally developed a longer stroke?? In my program we focus a lot on juggling DPS and turnover rate. I've got a number of people capable of cruising in the 8 to 9 strokes per length area. In general, these are my fastest swimmers. Some are sprinters. Their fastest swimming does come at higher stroke counts. We put an emphasis on increasing DPS at all speeds. Likewise, we also work toward developing a wider range of speeds the swimmer can do at various different stroke counts. In general we think in terms of each swimmer developing sufficient skills to be able to swim the distance of one "wingspan" for each stroke, at a moderate pace, all day long, as a no-brainer habit. So a person with a 6-foot wingspan who gets 7 yards glide off a wall would have 54 feet left to travel in the length and thus a goal of being able to cruise at 9 spl. At that point, depending on how seamless that swim style looks I might encourage an even lower stroke count. I have a 76 yr old woman who manages 12 SPL on good days.

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:53:28 GMT

Geez louise folks! Keep your drawers on!! 8 stroke cycles, ok? That's 16 strokes. I count by stroke cycles. I have long arms, OK?

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:05:51 GMT

I now see it was fisgrrl with the nice stroke count.....and I also noticed that she does seem to like long distance freestyle, so I'm guessing that my first inclination was the correct one....Necessity is the mother of invention....(i.e. if you swim enough long distance freestyle, perhaps you eventually have to develop a stroke count like that out of necessity). I am a little afraid to even use the clock at workout these days b/c I don't want to know how slow I might actually be swimming......I will, eventually, need to actually use it as our first official Masters practice is this Tuesday (It's a brand new team that just formed at my local YMCA)....I have met the coaches many times on the pool deck and we've talk about various drills and such....but so far, My interval training has been based on 30 seconds rest per swim, or 20 seconds rest per swim (all approximations in my head) without ever really glancing at the clock.....I HOPE I have a big drop in time this year.....but I have to realize that coming back to swimming after an 18 year layoff means that I probably will not swim very fast times this year.....but who knows?? Nationals isn't until May!

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:05:13 GMT

I once made 25 yards just with a dive, it was not fast but zero strokes and no kicking. We called it the long plunge. George www.swimdownhill.com

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:54:51 GMT

My freestyle stroke count is around 10 to 12 strokes per 25 yards (so 5 to 6 stroke cycles per 25 yards) WHEN I am at "cruising" speed (as opposed to full blown out race speed) ...and then I am really stretching my stroke out and trying to get as much distance per stroke as I can.....I have never heard of anyone who could average 8 strokes per 25.....But I'm not saying it's impossible by any means....Maybe that person is some kind of distance swimmer that has naturally developed a longer stroke?? It is very impressive though! Another possibility is that the person really meant 8 stroke cycles instead of 8 individual strokes (so 8 with each arm instead of 4 with each arm)?? .....a simple misunderstanding perhaps??....If, however, that person did really mean 8 strokes per 25, then I am very impressed!! (and jealous)! newmastersswimmer

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:50:07 GMT

In Feb 1955 my coach called me and told me I was selected to represent Canada in the Pan Am Games in Mexico, the selection was made on past performances. I started training but was swimming very badly, I could not get my time below one min. for 100 yards(stinko). I decided not to go but the next day at a time trial I did a 51 second 100 yards, so I changed my mind and went. It worked out fine I came second in the Pan Am games, just touched out in the 100 meters free by Clarke Scholes of the USA, the 1952 Olympic Champion. Nine second drop overnight. George www.swimdownhill.com

RE: biggest time accomplishment

Former Member — Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:38:38 GMT

Originally posted by Fishgrrl My biggest time drops have been in the 1000, 1650 and 1500. I swam the 1650 Jan. 2004 in 24:45. Swam it again in April 2004 in 24:01. Swam the 1000 in April '03 in 14:45; swam it in Apr. '04 in 14:01. Swam the 1500 in July '04 in 24:20; swam it again this month in 23:18. I am looking forward to swimming the 1650 again next Jan. and Apr.; the 1000 in April as well and the 1500 in July (along with the 400/500 and 800 long course). I think one of the most important factors in the time drops has been consistant dryland training. I have also dropped my stroke count (per 25) from 20 (when I first started swimming), to 17, then to 10 and now it's down to 8 strokes per length. I couldn't have done this without stretching and focusing on form. Another important factor: learning to tolerate the pain! :eek: 8 strokes????:eek: you mean 4 srtroke cycles?That is INCREDIBLE!!!You mean you swim at your competitive pace consistently doing just 8 strokes?Is that even possible?