Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:17:26 GMT

Straightarm recovery has been getting a lot of time in magazines recently. I was wondering if anyone has converted their stroke yet? I've been trying it. It seems to me that it allows me to plant my habnd deeper into the water for the catch, fewer strokes per lenght. I also seem to roll more, especially on my nonbreathing side.

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:34:08 GMT

Normally, I have a pretty close to the classictrditional textbook fgreestyle stroke (thanks to my awesome coach). 6 beat kick, bilateral breathing, high elbows, accelerate pull through the stroke, bent arm recovery... Since I'm new to swimming my arms and shoulders are not vry strong (yet) so it's easy to overwork them and get sore... chronically sore. In last few months my coach is having me mix the straight arm recovery probably 20-30% of the strokes to relieve the overworked muscles and to relax the shoulders. I think that with certain body styles atraight arm recovery may be more beneficial then the classic stroke. In my case it helps me remember to rotate more, the additional hip snap adds energy to my kick. Mixing in straigh arm recovery also pushes and reminds me to use the bigger back and lateral muscles more. It seems to easy to fall into using just the smaller arm and shouler muscles on the classic bent arm recovery, and overwork them. Wth straight arm recovery there may be a pitfall of wanting to continue the straight arm into a straight arm pull, which is not so good for the shoulders or the propulsion. So, for a beginner like me carefully adding straight arm recovery has been beneficial. As for the body stylke, I don't have strong arms and shouders, and my shoulders are slightly rounded forward which I think causes me to have to work (stretch) little more to have a high elbows bent arm recovery, as opposed to someone who doesn't have rounded shoulders. The end result of introdushing the straigh arm recovery in my case is to eventually be able to mimic that motion with the arm relaxed from the elbow down (to fingertips)... this would result in a bent arm recovery, but with a shoulder rotation that seems little more comfortable for the shoulder. That's been my experience with the straight arm recovery so far.

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:57:41 GMT

While swimming against the strong current, in the open ocean after a tropical storm a couple of months ago, I experimented with the "windmill" technique and found it far superior to the "bent arm" in making progress against the current. The additional torque generated makes body surfing more successful too. clyde

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:09:05 GMT

I discovered a book "Swimming for Seniors" by Edward J. Shea in which he states--A lack of flexibility in the shoulder joint often determines the senior swimmer's preference for the raised-hand during recovery i.e. straight arm recovery. He goes on to describe specifically how to make this recovery and has illustrations to demonstrate it. Published by Leisure Press 1986.

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:50:35 GMT

Bill, thanks for your thoughts! And congrats on all the media success since I last saw you!! Couldn't have happened to a nicer person - and your ability to inspire is amazing. We are lucky to have you in this wacky USMS community. :-) On topic, I should have mentioned that I don't actually use a straight-arm recovery regularly, I was just intrigued by the article and tried it out a bit. My wide recovery concerns came from that initial playing around - BUT I think you answered my convoluted question anyway (you're good) as I believe I wasn't emphasizing the up & over motion as much as an around swing. I can see the "up and over" picture much more clearly thinking of Janet Evans' stroke than, say, Inky's for some reason. Now I have to go try it out again. ;-) Thanks again, Sandie PS...the description of JE's freestyle as almost a modified butterfly by Nancy Schlueter was also really fascinating - she would certainly have been the right person to recognize it. Very interesting approach. Thanks for such wonderful food for thought!!!

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:17:10 GMT

As I mentioned in a previous post, all of my information came from interviewing coaches and swimmers. I do not know of any other published resources on the subject.

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:53:51 GMT

Originally posted by Gil I am a senior swimmer. Does the straight arm recovery require more or less flexibility than the bent arm recovery? Are there any videos or print pictures of the demonstration of the straight arm recovery? The article was great. Thanks Gil. That's a good question. I haven't heard any discussion about flexibility, but I have heard about mechanics and shoulder strength. I have tried this technique with easy swimming in practice, and personally, I didn't feel it required any more flexibility. That's just my personal take on things. If you really think about it, for the average swimmer the windmill may require less flexibility than bent-arm freestyle. The way an average swimmer swims with bent-arm freestyle requires a fair amount of flexibility. It is very common to see the upper body rotating independently of the lower body. The hips often lag behind in the timing of the rotation (if the swimmer rotates at all). Subsequently, this stroke flaw may explain why swimmers who do not have good flexibility may develop shoulder injuries. They are, in effect, forcing their body into positions it is not flexible enough to manage. So, my personal feeling is that windmill would not necessarily require more flexibility -- and it is very possible it may require less flexibility. I would be curious to hear what coaches think about this question. Any coaches out there who are willing to respond? Bill

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:33:08 GMT

Actually, just misread the second to the last sentence in your first post. I read hasn't to be has. Dooh! Anyway great article and great food for thought. Hook'em Blue

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:26:01 GMT

Blue Horn: I think we're having a communication meltdown. I'll try to be as clear as possible here. All the information I collected was from interviews I conducted with the coaches and swimmers. I used no no written resources and referred to no articles because I didn't find any in existence. There may be some, but I am not aware of them. Therefore, I cannot guide you to articles. Sorry if this point wasn't clear in my previous messages. All of the information I have is presented in the article. Sandie: Hi, how's it going? Good to hear from you. I think Coach Bergen's application of the technique and Janet Evans' use of the technique may be different from how you do it. I was curious, so during the interviews I asked Janet Evans if she ever had collisions with swimmers in practice, and she said that never happened. Her coach, Bud McAllister said the same thing. Personally, I don't recall seeing collisions with the senior swimmers when I worked alongside Coach Bergen a few years ago, the year he mandated the use of windmill freestyle for his whole program. There were people who complained about it, but not because of arm collisions. These swimmers appear to windmill their arms up more toward the ceiling rather than to the side, so it doesn't appear as though it makes the stroke wider, but rather, narrower on the horizontal plane / pool surface. I believe it works this way for these swimmers because the coaches are using the technique to develop hip rotation. I haven't analyzed your stroke closely, but my guess would be that you may need to focus more on how the straight arm recovery facilitates more effectively timed (and complete) hip rotation. Ask your coach. Hope that helps, Bill

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:50:12 GMT

Bill, Did the coaches from programs using this technique comment at all on how often swimmers hit/lock arms during training, or how they work around it? This sounds really wimpy, but I already come home with bruised wrists and hands pretty frequently - even when I pull in narrow when passing swimmers in adjacent lanes. (Nothing like getting whacked by a stronger male triathlete muscling through his set! That's a lot of force. I've actually had my arm go numb.) I can't imagine a program where all swimmers are using a straight arm simultaneously! The technique is really intriguing. I'd be interested in any comments/thoughts on managing a poolful, and/or at least playing nice with other swimmers. Thanks! Sandie

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:58:16 GMT

When you said written information, I was hoping that there might be something out there available for the public. I tried using a straight arm recovery and definitly noticed a difference due to what seemed to be increased momentum, kind of like an upside-down pendulum effect. I also felt more undulation and rhythm, and it seemed like I lowered my times on 100 yard repeats by a few seconds without increasing my stroke count. I might might try this for a month and see how my times are at the end of the month. Could you share any drills that these coachs and swimmers used? I understand that it is probably proprietary, but I figuered that I would ask anyway. Hook'em Blue

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:09:09 GMT

Bill, Do you know where the public can find these articles or books? Hook'em Blue

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:45:05 GMT

I am a senior swimmer. Does the straight arm recovery require more or less flexibility than the bent arm recovery? Are there any videos or print pictures of the demonstration of the straight arm recovery? The article was great.

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:14:40 GMT

For those who would like to read the article we are discussing, please use the following link: swiminfo.com/.../200407-01st_art1.asp Bill

RE: Swimming with a Straight-Arm Recovery

Former Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:11:14 GMT

That article was an interesting project, and I learned a lot while writing it. My impression was that the benefit of the straight-arm freestyle recovery was primarily tied in with the way proper use of this technique forces hip rotation. The revelation was that this technique provided a way to gain a viable training benefit for butterflyers through freestyle training, without sacrificing the freestyle. During the process of researching this article, I found that there hasn't been a lot written about it. Most of the information I found came directly from those teaching it and those who have used the technique. Bill